Posted on 01/24/2008 9:26:00 PM PST by djf
I did not say that patents were cheap. I said they are relatively cheap. Cheap compared to cost of defending the patent. Of course, most patents are not valuable enough for a Microsoft or GM to attack.
My job was to produce basically the same thing without violating the other company’s patent. It turned out to be not very difficult. Most patents are very narrow in scope and describe a specific method on what is done. By making minor changes to the method (different circuit configuration but same result, they used just a VCO, I used a phase locked loop as one of the key elements of the design) it got around the patent.
The more your idea is worth the harder it is to protect it. Once the basic idea is known there are often many ways of achieving the same result, even if not absolutely optimal it provides a way around the patent.
Your patent will be no better than the patent attorney used. Ultimately it is very difficult to defend yourself against a large company with an army of lawyers if they want what you have - or - had...
PLL has a VCO.
I designed an individual cylinder knock controller in ‘91. Mostly in software, running on a processor with a security bit. Decided that was better than a patent. Hasn’t been ripped off yet.
New version for multi coil Fords called Vampire:
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/VampirePage/J%26S_Vampire.html
I think the best approach is to get the Provisional.
Then talk to a large company that sees the value of it, grant them a license to use it on the condition that they will never challenge it, but will defend the patent.
IF this ever comes to fruition I will do my damndest to see that each and every single one of the units that are manufactured is made right here in the good ol USA!!
I just did my first (pretty crude) diagram.
And since I know there are folks who have read the thread, and I’m not giving anything away by doing so, I will announce the title of my invention!
You heard it here first!
The American Millennium Engine
“PLL has a VCO”
Yes.
But the technique to detect a varying inductance (a sensor) was different, enough different to get around the patent.
And yes, bury your idea so it is hard to discover.
I design high performance satellite modems. I use a cheap PIC controller on the board as a hardware key. The hardware key connects to a large FPGA which makes it pretty difficult to reverse engineer.
It is possible to take the top off the chip and probe the PIC code but it is beyond normal engineers and companies to perform. It would be cheaper for them to just buy the company ;-)
As I understand it a provisional patent will require you to do all your homework prior to applying for it. Any significant change later throws out the provisional patent. In addition you may lose the ability to file a patent at all if the change is made too late after the fact.
If you are really serious about this, a working device that demonstrates the basic capabilities along with a patent gives you by far the most leverage. It also allows you to prove your idea before your exposure is very large. In addition you may find that in the real world something needs to be done differently that would cause your provisional patent (or patent) to be useless.
You also need to pretend that you are an engineer hired to come up with alternate ways of implementing your basic idea and try to see how many other ways there are to get around your patent. If there are several, it may be very difficult to protect.
Just my 2 cents...
You might be very surprised to find out that “your idea” has already been patented. Go online and do some research. Also, it is fairly easy for a big, deep pocket company to either break your patent or slightly modify it and patent it themselves. Know these things before sinking in lot of money ...
The patent process will cost $7,000 to $10,000 and will give you precisely nothing, but the right to spend money suing people.
First, you are a little low on the fees. $7000 is possible, but the top end can go higher for complex cases. Your range is more typical of the initial filing for a basic invention, which is the bulk of the cost.
Where I (and multitudes of smart companies) disagree, is in your suggestion that the patent is worthless.
True, suing on a patent can cost six figures, easily. But the fact is that it is usually not necessary to sue for a patent to have a profound economic benefit.
It’s like how carrying a pistol. By your analogy, you would argue not to both carrying a gun, because you always have to shoot muggers, and that gets you in so much legal hot water that it just isn’t worth it, it’s cheaper just to pay the muggers. But many muggers will be deterred once they see you have a pistol. Many of the rest will flee after you draw the pistol. Few would remain around, needing to be shot.
Similarly, with patents, most of your competitors who learn you have a patent are likely to be deterred from offering an infringing product. Those that are offering such a product will usually stop it when accused of patent infringement, because their lawyers will advise them of the consequences (which is paying triple damages if they are in fact found to infringe if sued.)
Yes, there is a small chance that some big, bad competitors might call your bluff. But if your invention is adding value to your company of over, say, $100,000 per year, then suing will be a no-brainer. And the paranoid “they want to steal my invention” mentality just does not comport with reality in the vast majority of cases.
My clients pay me well, so I certainly am biased. But the fact that they do so gladly, as well-informed business owners is testimony to the value of patents.
I think we can agree that you should not invest in patenting every patentable invention. Only the ones with substantial potential value should be invested in.
And a caution to the original poster. The Provisional approach is a bit dangerous. Like pouring your own foundation for a new house, before you have had an architect design the house. Your provisional will handcuff your future patent attorney to a limited strategy that might severely limit your rights, and not save you a penny in legal fees.
My best advice is to consult a patent attorney at the outset, and make a well-advised choice on what path to take. It’s too important to take advice by internet-anecdote.
The suggestion to read the Nolo book is fine, but that will just give you the background, not the basis to prepare and file an adequate patent application or provisional. I can also email you some info that is even better.
Also, the good news is that if you have good invention records, you can safely defer the investment in the patent process for up to a year after you start publicizing the invention, which is as good as filing a provisional.
Freepmail me and we can be in touch off-line. No charge for the initial consultation for long-time Freepers!
Of course, most patents are not valuable enough for a Microsoft or GM to attack.
And those big boys do sometimes lose (I was personally involved in a litigation where one of those companies paid out a fraction of a Billion dollars to the owner of the patent they infringed.)
I can attest that of the hundreds of patents I have obtained in my career, only one has ever been litigated. But many (surely not all, or even a majority) provide an ample economic benefit to their owners.
Last year, I had patent clients (of my solo office, I’m not in a big firm) that were acquired in friendly buyouts for $100m and $6b, respectively. You think that would not have happened if they had no protection for their technology? (Granted, I did a lot of trademark protection work for the $100m company.)
My job was to produce basically the same thing without violating the other company’s patent. It turned out to be not very difficult....
Your patent will be no better than the patent attorney used.
I think the best approach is to get the Provisional.
Then talk to a large company that sees the value of it, grant them a license to use it on the condition that they will never challenge it, but will defend the patent.
And not to be discouraging, but big companies are usually not very interested in small inventor’s ideas. Have a plan in mind for if you face lots of closed doors and ignored correspondence. That is the typical scenario for most in your situation.
Those who become successful usually do it with lots of their own effort and legwork either marketing the product, or being its champion in some other way.
Act fast, because you have only a year to spread the word until you have a big patent lawyer bill ($5-10k) to pay for filing an application that will have real hope of protecting the invention.
Dang, Skunk Baxter is a real-life rocket scientist, eh?
UPDATE:
A 20+ year friend of mine who is an EE came over today. He signed an NDA that I threw together, he suggested a few changes to the NDA (which I will make).
I showed him my crude diagram. The first word out of his mouth was the first word any engineer would say when they saw it, but to tell it here would give away more about the design than I want to now.
Then he said “No, it’s not... it’s different...” then we started talking about the materials and variations and applications.
This guy has been taking engines and motors and you say what apart for over thirty years, just like me. He’s never seen anything like it! The simplicity of the design... his opinion is that it is ABSOLUTELY worth persuing and he wants to talk to a fellow he knows who is an ME.
I knew I was on to something when he was looking at the diagram and he says “Whoaaaa..... motorcycles!”
So we are going to work more on the designs and variations and let the applications come to us. My best guestimate is that it would be at least two months before I can tell anybody what it is. Stay tuned!
Remember the Inventor’s Prayer (said every morning upon waking):
“Dear Lord, help me to keep my damn mouth shut for one more day.”
Good advice.
Humbling advice... but good advice!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.