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To: John O
"Onan's sin was not that he spilled his seed but that he disobeyed God by not raising up children to his brother. (He could have spilled all the seed he wanted AFTER he impregnated his brothers widow.)"

Not so. Violation of the Levirate law was not a capital offense. If a man didn't fulfill his obligations to his deceased brother's widow, she was to "go up to him and strip his sandal from his foot and spit in his face, saying publicly, 'This is how one should be treated who will not build up his brother's family!'" (Deut. 25:9).

Yet Onan received, not a humiliating public rebuke, but a death sentence. Why? Because he sinned not only by violating the Levirate law, but also by the way in which he did so. The kind of act he committed was so despicable that, in the Old Testament context, it was punishable by death.

Onan went through the motions of the life-giving act --- a kind of parody of real sex --- but deliberately altered it so that natural fertility was evaded by an unnatural act, one with no life-giving significance.

Incidentally, Protestants like Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Wesley, Melancthon Jacobus, Matthew Henry and many others saw the act of "wasting the seed" as being morally abhorrent in the eyes of God, as you can see at the link.

Lust itself, as you point out, is condemned in the Bible, but I'm sure you will agree that this is not a condemnation of sexual desire per se. The Song of Solomon is clearly a celebration of the sexual desire of the betrothed lovers for each other, and the New Testament upholds the "honor" of the marriage bed, even going so far as to say that the husband's cherishing of his wife's flesh, and his care for her, is a "Mysterium Tremendum" which is an image of Christ's love for the Church.

I think you'd have to say that a desire that leads to blessed natural marital union is approved by God; while on the other hand the desire that leads to defective acts, whether by yourelf, with your spouse, or with somebody else, is not blessed, and is even offensive in the eyes of God.

110 posted on 01/29/2008 8:16:38 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (As a matter of fact.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
"Onan's sin was not that he spilled his seed but that he disobeyed God by not raising up children to his brother. (He could have spilled all the seed he wanted AFTER he impregnated his brothers widow.)"

Not so. Violation of the Levirate law was not a capital offense.

It is in some places (homosexuality for example). But the point I was making is that masturbation is not a sin in and of itself. Also what Onan did is not masturbation. He had sex with his brother's widow but refused to impregnate her. He disobeyed his father.

(And of course Tamar later gave birth to Phares who is in Christ's line)

Yet Onan received, not a humiliating public rebuke, but a death sentence. Why? Because he sinned not only by violating the Levirate law, but also by the way in which he did so.

Disagree. Onan was not killed for any sexual sin. He was killed for disobedience

The kind of act he committed was so despicable that, in the Old Testament context, it was punishable by death.

Again, I disagree. As we see from Leviticus 15:16 and 17, and Levitucus 15:18 it doesn't matter if he is with a woman or not. Spilling the seed is not sinful. If it was a death sentence it would have stated it here. Since Lev15:18 doesn't even call it a sin (no sin offering) we can also state that it's not an offense worthy of death

Incidentally, Protestants like Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Wesley, Melancthon Jacobus, Matthew Henry and many others saw the act of "wasting the seed" as being morally abhorrent in the eyes of God, as you can see at the link.

And yet Heb 13:4 tells us that marriage is honorable and the bed undefiled. What a man and his wife choose to do with just themselves is fine as long as they are married and it doens't violate any other law of God, it does not defile the bed.

while on the other hand the desire that leads to defective acts, whether by yourelf, with your spouse,

interesting concept. I can't find "defective acts" or any scripture that can be translate that way, in the bible. What are you referring to?

But then nevermind as we are getting way off topic. It remains that there is no biblical injunction against the spilling of seed. which was the only point I wanted to make. have a great day.

116 posted on 01/29/2008 2:06:23 PM PST by John O (God Save America (Please))
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