Posted on 01/28/2008 6:05:45 PM PST by spintreebob
http://www.reflejos.com/onlinepdf/20080127/20080127_Ref_p10.pdf
On the one hand, they're only allowing the brighter students into the program in the first place:
Classes, capped at 25 students, often have waiting lists. This year’s kindergarten class tested 110 students for the program, taking only 50, said Judy Rivera, who runs Channing’s program.
Then they try to state that the students are bright because of the dual-language:
“We have statistics here at Channing that the dual language students are consistently scoring above their peers...”
Now I may not be the brightest bulb, but doesn't it stand to reason that if the best and the brightest are being admitted to the program in the first place that, regardless of the additional language, they'd still be out-scoring their peers afterward?
In other words, one has nothing to do with the other.
I think a second language is a definite asset (3 is even better!). Two of my cousins attended French-immersion to the end of high school. Now, the illegal issue is totally separate. If there is demand for dual language schools and language education then I see no reason it shouldn’t be provided.
Don’t get me wrong: whether or not the government should be providing it is a completely different issue.
“however, the ability the think in multiple languages does give a person a cognitive advantage”
How does this work? Does it increase as more languages are added, and (as I would guess) does the divergence in the structure (say, english and mandarin together compared with spanish and portgues) of the 2 languages impact the cognitive skills?
Dual language program is not a codeword for instruction in Spanish for Spanish speakers and English for English speakers. These programs teach some subjects in Spanish and some in English for the students in their classes. Spanish speakers receive half of their classes in English and English speakers receive half of their classes in Spanish. The goal is to graduate students that are fluent in two languages instead of just one.
Two of my kids went through a dual language program, and they were great. The program was modeled by the European schools that teach their students their local language and English as well. You might want to do some research before you make assumptions.
They’re just gonna have to finally learn English.
Agreed. The manner in which an individual conceives an idea and perceives the environment is definitely colored by linguistic experience. Cultural idioms tied to a language also have an influence.
The goal is to graduate students that are fluent in two languages instead of just one.
The panic among the Hispanic parents indicates that the goal wasn't achieved. Their children are being advanced to a school system where they are expected to have achieved fluency in English. Your native English speaking children won't have a problem.
You are right on target but I imagine that many here will not agree with you.
I suspect the reason for the waiting list is not quite what you think.
Dual-language programs work best when there is about a 50-50 balance between native speakers of each language. If the school is heavily minority, almost all english speakers who apply will be admitted into the program, but there will be more selection among the spanish speakers.
Based on actual results, both groups do better than their academic peers in other types of programs. Even in seemingly unrelated subjects such as math.
Your line of reasoning may be valid for the spanish-speakers, but it does not explain the performance of the english-speakers.
Just because someone named Rivera says it, it does not mean there is panic among the hispanic parents.
Think this one through with me. Why would hispanic parents fear that their children would be losing their spanish if that is their first language? The only students at risk for losing the spanish they have learned are the english-speakers.
Their children are being advanced to a school system where they are expected to have achieved fluency in English.
The parent complaining is worried that his obviously English speaking children, will lose the Spanish they have learned over their elementary school years. I doubt the Spanish speaking students are going to worry about losing their Spanish. Is it possible that you are confusing dual language with an ESL program?
I have encountered many here that disagree with Spanish being taught at all. Their logic seems to be that if the language is spoken by illegals, then it must be bad, and therefore it must be prohibited in our schools.
I didn’t speak English until entering public school when I was 7. I speak Spanish, English and Portuguese. All of my children are also fluent in all three, although they refuse to speak anything but English most of the time. It is a valuable asset to speak more than one language, but you are right about the cognitive benefits. Most colleges are now requiring 3-4 years of another foreign language, and many degree programs are also requiring a second language.
There was no evidence offered about the first language of the hispanic students. It wouldn't be a matter of "losing their Spanish". It would be a matter of not getting any further instruction in a language they understand. The article only cites improvements in scores relatives to their peers. How do they perform compared to students at that grade level across the country based on standardized exams?
My #2 son speaks English and Spanish. As a real estate broker, he conducts almost 90% of his business with Spanish speakers. He represents them in court. His employees speak English, Spanish, Tagalog, Mandarin, Thai and Laotion. He views that as a competitive advantage. In exchange for that linguistic access, he mentors those employees to become more competent and productive in the real estate business.
I always try to read the black words on the white page:
“I think the parents think … our students going on to middle school are going to miss out on their Spanish, lose much of what they’ve gained. This program needs to keep expanding.”
Now, exactly what part of that quote is hard to understand?
The parents are not afraid that the students will not understand math, they are afraid they will lose the mastery of spanish they have gained.
Whether you choose to believe it or not, mastery of spanish is a valuable skill. There is significant trade between english-speaking nations and spanish-speaking ones. A mastery of both languages is of great practical significance for anyone involved in any aspect of this trade, and it becomes even more valuable as one ascends to higher levels of the organizations carrying out that trade.
Do you really want to cede all of the high positions in a number of businesses to people born speaking spanish and schooled speaking english only, or would you like to have some native english-speakers schooled in dual-language programs in contention?
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