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Aerogenerator turbine sets sail for a greener future (9MW VAWT design on the drawing board)
Guardian UK ^ | 1/29/2008 | Duncan Graham-Rowe

Posted on 01/30/2008 12:47:01 PM PST by Uncledave

It may resemble a giant rotary washing line, but it might just help Britain meet its hugely ambitious new wind energy targets. At least that's the claim of the company developing a novel "vertical axis" wind turbine dubbed the Aerogenerator.

The 144-metre high V-shaped structure would be mounted offshore and capable of generating up to 9 megawatts of electricity, roughly three times as much power as a conventional turbine of equivalent size. Switching to such a design could ensure that thousands fewer turbines would be needed in order to meet the government's new wind power target, says Theo Bird, founder of Windpower, the Blyth-based firm behind the new turbine.

As unique as it may sound, the Aerogenerator is in fact just the latest addition to a family of wind turbines that generate power through a rotating vertical shaft as opposed to the horizontal shafts of the more familiar windmill design.

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: energy; turbine; wind
VAWT's are going to make inroads I think. In theory they catch more wind and have much less problems with high, jerky torque loads that give HAWT's so many headaches. Here she is..


1 posted on 01/30/2008 12:47:03 PM PST by Uncledave
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To: Uncledave

VAWT again...


2 posted on 01/30/2008 12:50:49 PM PST by DTogo (I haven't left the GOP, the GOP left me.)
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To: Uncledave

So - I’m used to seeing output described in terms of how many homes it can provide for - percent of a city or such. Not sure what 9 MW can do.


3 posted on 01/30/2008 12:50:53 PM PST by RogerFGay
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To: RogerFGay

9 megawatts should be enough to power 3600 typical homes.


4 posted on 01/30/2008 12:55:25 PM PST by Teflonic
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To: Uncledave

Using the boats in the pic as a reference, it appears that it is flippin’ huge.


5 posted on 01/30/2008 12:55:58 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: Uncledave
The mad panic to “fight global warming” is resulting in the waste of countless billions of dollars; as money is thrown at large scale implementation of existing, but not optimal, technologies. In addition, there are serious negative side-effects of each of these “green” technologies. (Ethanol = higher food prices; wind = serious aesthetic impacts, dead birds, noise; etc.)

We need more R&D — and less money thrown at subsidizing the implementation of suboptimal technologies. The panic is hugely wasteful.

6 posted on 01/30/2008 12:59:33 PM PST by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: Uncledave

Now, this is the kind of forward thinking design and development work we need. Suppose Teddy will vote some money to build one off Hyannis? 9MW ought to be enough to keep his scotch chilled...


7 posted on 01/30/2008 1:00:49 PM PST by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion...)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

Ya know...maybe...just maybe, we’ll have to get used to some of the results of suboptimal solutions as we move toward replacing oil as a primary energy source. Maybe the birds will have to find new migratory paths. Maybe the noise will lead to new soundproofing methods for sturctures built nearby. Maybe we haven’t reached the full limit of technological advances with these energy sources.

It’s pretty safe to say that we need to be doing a lot of many things, not just a few of some. IMO, we’d ought to cheer this one on, and see where it leads.


8 posted on 01/30/2008 1:05:26 PM PST by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion...)
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To: Teflonic
9 megawatts should be enough to power 3600 typical homes.

Or 36 goremansions

9 posted on 01/30/2008 1:09:31 PM PST by tje
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To: PubliusMM
It seems I need to clarify my previous post.

The suboptimal technologies I was referring to are the existing ones. Clearly, if this new design works as well as stated; then the existing ones are suboptimal.

The insane panic about AWG is causing us to throw many billions of dollars subsidizing the full-scale implementation of various “green energy” technologies. If we wern’t in a panic, there would be more money spent on R&D and less on subsidizing (or mandating) suboptimal technologies.

I fully agree that we should be trying many things — and, by far, the most cost-effective way to do that is by R&D into many technologies; rather than throwing massive subsidies to “solutions” that will require perpetual subsidies. I am cheering this design on (as well as R&D into several other technologies that have great potential.)

10 posted on 01/30/2008 1:16:06 PM PST by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA
wind = serious aesthetic impacts, dead birds, noise; etc

This offshore turbine concept has no aesthetic or noise impact issues and I'd imagine minimal bird problems compared to onshore projects.

11 posted on 01/30/2008 1:21:33 PM PST by Uncledave
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To: Teflonic

In off-peak ours, maybe, but in peak hours, 9 MW is enough for maybe 1000 homes.


12 posted on 01/30/2008 1:23:13 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: Uncledave
The reason HAWTs are Horizontal, is because there is normally more wind available at 150 feet than there is at surface level.

The article says nothing about this particular design's ability (or as I suspect, inability) to feather in high winds and storms. (Not to mention hurricanes.)

The article also states it is more expensive to maintain a generator/transmission system that is 150 feet (or more) above ground. How much more expensive is it to maintain when it is offshore?

13 posted on 01/30/2008 1:28:22 PM PST by Yo-Yo (USAF, TAC, 12th AF, 366 TFW, 366 MG, 366 CRS, Mtn Home AFB, 1978-81)
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To: Yo-Yo
How much more expensive is it to maintain when it is offshore?

I think the fair comparison would be offshore VAWT vs. offshore HAWT

14 posted on 01/30/2008 1:32:23 PM PST by Uncledave
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To: Uncledave

Please see my post 10, wherein I attempt to clarify things.

(FWIW, “Swimmer” seems to think there’s a problem with windmill aesthetics.)


15 posted on 01/30/2008 1:36:31 PM PST by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

You have described a boondoggle. Political solutions to economic problems often yield boondoggles. We are in store for many boondoggles. Boondoggles in the public sector tend to live forevery unfortunately. In the private sector, investment is lost but lessons are learned.


16 posted on 01/30/2008 2:14:48 PM PST by businessprofessor
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To: Blood of Tyrants
In off-peak ours, maybe, but in peak hours, 9 MW is enough for maybe 1000 homes.

I'm not buying that...

I haven't seen too many homes in the real world that draw an average of 9 Kw, even during peak hours.

17 posted on 01/30/2008 2:46:40 PM PST by Publius6961 (MSM: Israelis are killed by rockets; Lebanese are killed by Israelis.)
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To: Publius6961

Like is said, MAYBE. In reality you have to have enough “spinning reserve” (a term for partially loaded generators even though fully loaded is the most efficient) to handle load surges.


18 posted on 01/30/2008 3:02:38 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: Publius6961
The best measure is to convert the megawatts to barrels of oil equivalents.

9 megaWatt hours = 5.075913173 barrels of oil.

To generate 9 megaWatt hours of electricity from oil, you would probably need about 12 barrels of oil.

Here’s a handy-dandy converter:

http://www.unitconversion.org/energy/fuel-oil-equivalent-barrels-us-to-megawatt-hours-conversion.html

19 posted on 01/30/2008 3:17:07 PM PST by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: RogerFGay; Teflonic; PubliusMM
So - I’m used to seeing output described in terms of how many homes it can provide for - percent of a city or such. Not sure what 9 MW can do.

Well, 9 MW is less half a percent of the output from one 2000-MW nuclear reactor.

I also notice that the article very carefuly avoids mentionning cost. Generally, big wind turbines cost about $5 per peak watt. And of course, they don't produce peak power 24/7. Whereas the output of a thermal generator can stay at peak for days.

20 posted on 01/30/2008 9:03:56 PM PST by FrogBurger (Media are to facts what butchers are to cows)
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