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RFID: What sort of trouble does this technology enable?
Firearms&Freedom ^ | 2008-02-08 | Mike Acker

Posted on 02/08/2008 5:55:20 AM PST by Mike Acker

What sort of trouble does this technology enable?

Technology can be a Good Thing but that doesn't mean we should fall over the bar-stool implementing new technology -- "just because it's there"

We need to ask the question: What sort of trouble does this new technology enable?" before we proceed.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Government
KEYWORDS: realid; rfid
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1 posted on 02/08/2008 5:55:27 AM PST by Mike Acker
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To: Mike Acker

Stop spamming for hits on your blog. If you want to post it in FR, put it in the right category: Blogs and Blogging.

Or I’ll dart you from a helicopter and implant an RFID in yer butt.


2 posted on 02/08/2008 6:02:33 AM PST by Lazamataz (Why isnít this in Breaking News????)
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To: Mike Acker

It’s already here and moving ahead. RFID doesn’t infringe upon personal freedoms, people do.

Sort of like that “guns don’t kill people...” argument.

I happen to believe both of them BTW...


3 posted on 02/08/2008 6:03:54 AM PST by misterrob
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To: misterrob

I don’t find the right of the people to have RFID, or that the government has the power of RFID, in the Constitution.


4 posted on 02/08/2008 6:08:43 AM PST by Bear_Slayer (When liberty is outlawed only outlaws will have liberty.)
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To: Lazamataz

the essay that I posted is NOT a Blog. it is a simple html page, nothing more. read it or not, as you wish

but I think we are looking at an important question here, that being that we need to consider what sort of trouble technology facilitates before we implement the use of that technology

as far as I know all ideas are welcome to be presented on Freep.


5 posted on 02/08/2008 6:17:39 AM PST by Mike Acker
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To: Mike Acker
the essay that I posted is NOT a Blog. it is a simple html page

As a Senior .NET analyst with a major corporation, who has advanced skills in Web design, portals, webservices, and so on, I am here to tell you.....

.......Blogs are often coded in html.

6 posted on 02/08/2008 6:20:31 AM PST by Lazamataz (Why isnít this in Breaking News????)
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To: misterrob
RFID doesn’t infringe upon personal freedoms, people do.

True, but recently with computer technology we have run into trouble with mis-used technology

This post/thread is simply an invitation to everyone to reflect on this problem and to consider how best we might respond

7 posted on 02/08/2008 6:22:23 AM PST by Mike Acker
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To: Lazamataz

==>Blogs are often coded in html.

yep, but what I posted is NOT a blog, just an essay in HTML format


8 posted on 02/08/2008 6:23:55 AM PST by Mike Acker
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To: Mike Acker
as far as I know all ideas are welcome to be presented on Freep.

First of all, a little vernacular training: You do not present on 'Freep', you present on 'Free Republic'. The word 'Freep' is a verb, indicating the concerted efforts of one to N 'Freepers' to alter the results of an online poll, instigate a letter- or emailing-campaign, or doing a physical protest at a particular location -- often in protest of an idea, person, or group of people.

Secondly, not all ideas are welcome here. Try advocating liberal ideas.

Third, conservative ideas are welcomed here, but proper etiquette dictates one must categorize them correctly.

9 posted on 02/08/2008 6:24:32 AM PST by Lazamataz (Why isnít this in Breaking News????)
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To: Mike Acker
Okay, that's fine. Did you categorize it correctly as an OpEd/Opinion piece?

Either way, I'm still darting you from a helicopter.

I need the target practice.

10 posted on 02/08/2008 6:26:55 AM PST by Lazamataz (Why isnít this in Breaking News????)
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To: Lazamataz

are you the moderator on this board?


11 posted on 02/08/2008 6:29:08 AM PST by Mike Acker
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To: Mike Acker

If he is not he should be. He certainly understands the rules and etiquette.


12 posted on 02/08/2008 6:30:55 AM PST by Bear_Slayer (When liberty is outlawed only outlaws will have liberty.)
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To: Bear_Slayer

many boards have a few self-styled players who like to act as self-appointed editors.

we cannot allow that sort of thing to intimidate folks who may have good thoughts to share


13 posted on 02/08/2008 6:35:54 AM PST by Mike Acker
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To: Mike Acker

None ...


14 posted on 02/08/2008 6:37:42 AM PST by Tarpon (Ignorance, the most expensive commodity produced by mankind.)
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To: Bear_Slayer

Can’t we all just get along.


15 posted on 02/08/2008 6:37:48 AM PST by Rappini (Remember Joe Foss)
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To: Bear_Slayer

Can’t we all just get along.


16 posted on 02/08/2008 6:38:00 AM PST by Rappini (Remember Joe Foss)
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To: Mike Acker
In most instances you can't take Laz seriously. In those instances that you should, You probably should.

You be the judge.

17 posted on 02/08/2008 6:43:35 AM PST by Bear_Slayer (When liberty is outlawed only outlaws will have liberty.)
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To: Rappini

No


18 posted on 02/08/2008 6:44:12 AM PST by Bear_Slayer (When liberty is outlawed only outlaws will have liberty.)
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To: Rappini

Yes


19 posted on 02/08/2008 6:44:30 AM PST by Bear_Slayer (When liberty is outlawed only outlaws will have liberty.)
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To: Mike Acker

If we police ourselves, we won’t need heavy-handed moderators to do so.


20 posted on 02/08/2008 6:46:57 AM PST by Bear_Slayer (When liberty is outlawed only outlaws will have liberty.)
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To: Lazamataz

Now Laz, be nice or I’ll paintball your little black helicopter Red, White and Blue.

;^)


21 posted on 02/08/2008 6:48:06 AM PST by The Spirit Of Allegiance (Public Employees: Honor Your Oaths! Defend the Constitution from Enemies--Foreign and Domestic!)
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To: Lazamataz

mornin’ t’you too, Laz ... haven’t seen ya’ for a while ... how y’bin ?


22 posted on 02/08/2008 6:52:00 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true.)
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To: Mike Acker

Maybe the fact that someone, somewhere, will have the ability to know everything you buy, eat, wear, drive, where you go, etc...and either tell or sell that info to someone else.


23 posted on 02/08/2008 6:55:05 AM PST by stuartcr (Election year.....Who we gonna hate, in '08?)
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To: Mike Acker
I am more than a moderator. I am a GOD! Tremble before me and bow your head, mortal!


24 posted on 02/08/2008 6:55:21 AM PST by Lazamataz (Why isnít this in Breaking News????)
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To: Mike Acker
Photobucket
25 posted on 02/08/2008 6:56:33 AM PST by redstateconfidential (If you are the smartest person in the room,you are hanging out with the wrong people.)
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To: Mike Acker

On the up side, I guess it will create lots of jobs...there will be a great need for people to manufacture the rfids, the monitoring devices, and the monitoring personnel themselves...all in some third world country.


26 posted on 02/08/2008 6:57:05 AM PST by stuartcr (Election year.....Who we gonna hate, in '08?)
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To: misterrob

Just as the guns in the wrong hands...


27 posted on 02/08/2008 6:58:01 AM PST by stuartcr (Election year.....Who we gonna hate, in '08?)
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To: Mike Acker
we cannot allow that sort of thing to intimidate folks who may have good thoughts to share

Understand this: I will cook you and eat you.

28 posted on 02/08/2008 7:00:49 AM PST by Lazamataz (Why isnít this in Breaking News????)
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To: knarf

I have been wonderful! I have discovered that Karen — my would-be fiance — was a liar and a cheater, so I moved on from her. I am seeing two gorgeous women non-exclusively right now. My career has taken off; I have a wonderful opportunity to partner with a multimillionare I met in the program of recovery I particpate in; my health is exceptional and I continue to lose weight and gain lean muscle mass.

If it was any better than this, it would be a felony.

How are YOU?


29 posted on 02/08/2008 7:04:11 AM PST by Lazamataz (Why isnít this in Breaking News????)
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To: The Spirit Of Allegiance
Now Laz, be nice or I’ll paintball your little black helicopter Red, White and Blue.

My happystick is still stained from when you paintballed THAT.

BTW: That hurt.

30 posted on 02/08/2008 7:05:31 AM PST by Lazamataz (Why isnít this in Breaking News????)
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To: Bear_Slayer

There is nothing in that document that said you have the right to a computer, a car, tacos or anything else either.


31 posted on 02/08/2008 7:07:11 AM PST by misterrob
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To: stuartcr
Maybe the fact that someone, somewhere, will have the ability to know everything you buy, eat, wear, drive, where you go, etc...and either tell or sell that info to someone else.

Unless you're paying cash (do they still take that?), they pretty much know that information now, if you go to major stores where everything is scanned. The only thing RFID brings to the table is LOCATION. However, in theory, RFID is extremely low power and therefore very limited in range. Of course, some sophisticated signal processing could probably solve that.

Unfortunately, the genie is out of the bottle. Anyone who thinks they're living in anonymity is fooling themselves.
32 posted on 02/08/2008 7:09:10 AM PST by BikerJoe
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To: stuartcr

Yes but we cannot deny people access to them simply because a few misuse them.


33 posted on 02/08/2008 7:09:38 AM PST by misterrob
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To: Lazamataz

So Thor decides to go down to earth and “partake” of the local feminity.

He goes to the local pub...

No...

Wait...

Nevermind - this joke is kinda rude...


34 posted on 02/08/2008 7:12:26 AM PST by Peet (Insert clever phrase here.)
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To: Mike Acker

We’ve always had trouble with misused technology. That’s human nature. The second thing somebody did with an invented object was something they shouldn’t have. The fact of the matter is that RFIDs are incredibly useful in a large variety of legitimate applications (mostly inventory control and package tracking). And really the horse has left the barn, if you want to stop RFIDs from being misused you need to work on the usage, RFIDs themselves are here to stay.


35 posted on 02/08/2008 7:14:11 AM PST by discostu (a mountain is something you don't want to %^&* with)
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To: Lazamataz
I'm well, thanx.

The hits jus' keep on comin' ....

36 posted on 02/08/2008 7:15:11 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true.)
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To: Peet

Send it to me in Freepmail!!!!


37 posted on 02/08/2008 7:15:41 AM PST by Lazamataz (Why isnít this in Breaking News????)
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To: BikerJoe
This probably applies here .... When I went to the polls to vote in Nov., 2004 ... my wife's name was already gone ... she died in June.

I thought that was pretty telling.

I never notified anyone or anything.

38 posted on 02/08/2008 7:18:02 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true.)
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To: Mike Acker
I>We need to ask the question: What sort of trouble does this new technology enable?" before we proceed.

What are you, Amish?

I'm only half-joking. Many years ago, I read a story in Wired Magazineabout the Amish to approach to technology. This later article casts more light.

Author Bruce Sterling made some contacts amongst the Amish, and revisited a few more times; i recommend searching the site for "bruce sterling contacts" (without the quotes). It really is interesting, at least to me.

They're not, as most outsiders assume (and I did), knee-jerk opposed to any new technology; they oppose luxuries, not practical necessities. They oppose telephones in homes, which they feel encourage people to stay inside and weaken a sense of community, but most communities have outdoor telephones. It's much more nuanced than I thought, and I encourage reading the articles.

Coming back to RFID, it certainly has great practical applications and potential for abuse. We already have credit bureaus, computer databases, surveillance technology, wiretaps, e-mail surveillance, GPS tracking, SPECTRE, COYOTE, TEMPEST, and all manner of other technology that can be abused. To me, sweating over RFID is worrying about closing the barn door when the horses are long gone.

I see some great possibilities for RFID. Embed tags in all prison uniforms, and you know where everyone is all the time. I wouldn't be difficult to automatically spot patterns of a suspiciously large number of people closing on the same locations, and thereby alert the COs to a potential riot. Soldiers with RFID could find wounded comrades more quickly.

Put an FRID in the bracelets they put on hospital patients, and you can track where anybody is all the time. Especially useful for elderly patients who tend to wander off.

On a more mundane level, you could go to a grocery store, grab a shopping cart with RFID and a small touch screen, tap in your shopping list, and get exact directions to where you can find the stuff you want. The collected data is tied to the cart, not to you, so no worries if you don't want the world to know you're buying herpes meds.

Or you could go to the airport, borrow a bare-bones PDA at the ticket counter, and get directions to your gate and up-to-the-second updates on your flight status. Hand it back at boarding.

I'm fine with it, with the right ethical and legal guidelines. First of all, no one should have an RFID tag on his person without an explicit notice (I'd make an exception for one planted under a legally-obtained warrant). That notice should include the specific uses for the data collected and have an opt-out option.

I wouldn't support implanting RFID in a human body. I wouldn't support its use in secret, with exceptions for criminal investigations under a warrant, same as with wiretaps, bugs, hidden cameras, and GPS tracking.

39 posted on 02/08/2008 7:18:08 AM PST by ReignOfError
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To: BikerJoe

Benefits of RFID:

Inventory management and control
Cost reductions
Security
Safety
Improving packaging of products
Animal control/retrieval
Property identification
Theft prevention
etc. etc

Risks:

All of the creative things people come up with to steal, spy etc,


40 posted on 02/08/2008 7:18:36 AM PST by misterrob
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To: Lazamataz; Mike Acker
Third, conservative ideas are welcomed here, but proper etiquette dictates one must categorize them correctly.

Fourth, there is a limited amount of tinfoil to go around. Conserve it.

41 posted on 02/08/2008 7:19:39 AM PST by TankerKC (I tried to find more Nixon.)
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To: misterrob
First let us distinguish between rights and powers.

Rights are what people have and are inalienable, given by Darwin or God.

Powers are what government has -- given by free people.

Private business has the right to implement RFID in all of their stores. We have the right to shop where we choose.

Government has no rights and no power to implement RFID technology or force RFID by law, unless we give them that power.

To do so would be a bad idea.

42 posted on 02/08/2008 7:21:03 AM PST by Bear_Slayer (When liberty is outlawed only outlaws will have liberty.)
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To: knarf
I never notified anyone or anything.

You really should get a death certificate drawn up then.

43 posted on 02/08/2008 7:23:40 AM PST by TankerKC (I tried to find more Nixon.)
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To: TankerKC
Oh ... all THAT was done ... still have a couple of copies left ... I guess the connection was/is the funeral home.

I just thought it tinfoilish to have never notified any gummint anyone's ... and they already knew ... and had acted.

44 posted on 02/08/2008 7:32:42 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true.)
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To: Lazamataz
Secondly, not all ideas are welcome here. Try advocating liberal ideas.

I hate to be Clintonesque, but define "welcome." Do you mean that they will be silenced, or that they will be received with many, sometimes hostile, replies?

I'm pretty hard-core on free speech. If you are forcibly stopped from expressing yourself, that violates free speech. If you are out-shouted, that is just a bunch of other folks exercising free speech.

NB: I'm talking about free speech as a philosophical construct, not a constitutional issue. No one is talking about government intrusion here. And while I love a freewheeling debate, FR is a private site, and JRob and the admins can enforce whatever rules they see fit. As the old saying goes, if you want to exercise freedom of the press, buy a press; you're not entitled to the use of mine.

As a matter of philosophy, I prefer to engage in a free flow of ideas. If a site or any forum is too restrictive, I can opt out. In the marketplace of ideas, as in any marketplace, the market that is too restrictive sees folks taking their business elsewhere.

I don't see the FR restrictions as overly restrictive, and the volume of posts seems to indicate that I am not alone in that conclusion. The rules around here serve to maintain an atmosphere of relative civility -- spamming, trolling, bigotry and profanity are all subjective, but it's up to the mods to know it when they see it.

45 posted on 02/08/2008 7:34:27 AM PST by ReignOfError
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To: Lazamataz
Secondly, not all ideas are welcome here. Try advocating liberal ideas.

I hate to be Clintonesque, but define "welcome." Do you mean that they will be silenced, or that they will be received with many, sometimes hostile, replies?

I'm pretty hard-core on free speech. If you are forcibly stopped from expressing yourself, that violates free speech. If you are out-shouted, that is just a bunch of other folks exercising free speech.

NB: I'm talking about free speech as a philosophical construct, not a constitutional issue. No one is talking about government intrusion here. And while I love a freewheeling debate, FR is a private site, and JRob and the admins can enforce whatever rules they see fit. As the old saying goes, if you want to exercise freedom of the press, buy a press; you're not entitled to the use of mine.

As a matter of philosophy, I prefer to engage in a free flow of ideas. If a site or any forum is too restrictive, I can opt out. In the marketplace of ideas, as in any marketplace, the market that is too restrictive sees folks taking their business elsewhere.

I don't see the FR restrictions as overly restrictive, and the volume of posts seems to indicate that I am not alone in that conclusion. The rules around here serve to maintain an atmosphere of relative civility -- spamming, trolling, bigotry and profanity are all subjective, but it's up to the mods to know it when they see it.

46 posted on 02/08/2008 7:35:09 AM PST by ReignOfError
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To: ReignOfError
"We already have...SPECTRE"


Quick, get Mr. Bond on the case!


47 posted on 02/08/2008 7:55:23 AM PST by Emperor Palpatine ("There is no civility, only politics.")
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To: Lazamataz

I’ll just pull yer plug and you’ll vanish completely ( tee hee )

Now unless I’m greatly mistaken, Free Republic is all about the free expression of ideas. and that is all that I’ve done here this morning

I know a lot of good folks are not going to agree with the ideas in my post. that is expected.

but what is important is that as a free people we have the opportunity to discuss ideas — whatever they may be.


48 posted on 02/08/2008 8:26:49 AM PST by Mike Acker
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To: misterrob

>> RFID doesn’t infringe upon personal freedoms, people do.

+1


49 posted on 02/08/2008 8:48:35 AM PST by Nervous Tick (Retire Ron Paul! Support Chris Peden (www.chrispeden.org))
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To: BikerJoe

Location, to me, is the biggest one.


50 posted on 02/08/2008 9:03:28 AM PST by stuartcr (Election year.....Who we gonna hate, in '08?)
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