Posted on 02/15/2008 4:45:23 PM PST by traviskicks
Friends baffield by shooter, shooting incident, and a possible “relationship break-up” which lead to shooter getting off “his meds”. URL posted.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23171567
When I was at the University of Alabama in the late 1970's almost all my friend's who were seniors had ccw permits issued by the Tuscaloosa Chief of Police and we all carried on campus. Guns were forbidden in the dorms but otherwise it was cool. Had Virginia Tech been pulled at Bama back then, the cops would have been needed for the paperwork and clean up duties. The Army & Air Force corps of cadets would've shredded any active shooter. We seniors ready to graduate and be commissioned were already fully trained in both the hardware and the tactics.
I can't believe that in the time since I graduated and was commissioned in 1980, the University has nearly thrown army ROTC off campus (from having the largest noncompulsory ROTC program in the South when I was there) and gone uber liberal in so many ways. Remember this is a campus that fielded a force to repel an invading union army during the Civil War and that force consisted of boys from the corps of cadets. They weren't exactly victorious, but they fought with honor and pride.
I think the great southern Universities have since filled their administrations with carpetbaggers & scalawags!
May you stand before God and man as my two precious grandchildren's killer if you pass any more gun legislation that will make me a felon should I own a handgun or any other gun for that matter.
Sincerely,
Mary Carpenter
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7CCB40F421ED4819
http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/2nd_Amend/deaths_in_merced.htm
The only sound you will hear will be when a round is chambered and then it's too late to take action.
Once more...
Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
—Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and Punishment (1764).
Yesterday seven people lost their lives to a madman. It is tragic, but equally as tragic is the sheeple have abandon their responsibility for their own safety and outsourced that responsibility to a government that is not legally bound to protect them!
As hard as this may sound, they were complicit in their own deaths by the inaction not to secure their own safety.
Another shooting in a “gun free zone”. The folly of it all, if it were not so tragic.
I would venture that if you wanted to charge the assailant during an attack you would need to be less than 10ft away during the reload.
I would venture that if you wanted to charge the assailant during an attack you would need to be less than 10ft away during the reload.
Second, the City of Chicago bans handguns (as do the cities of Morton Grove, Wilmette, Oak Park, and Evanston). There are no gun stores in Chicago, nor can you purchase ammunition within city limits.
Third, Illinois is one of only two states remaining that do not allow concealed carry at all, much less on a state university campus.
Lastly, an over-21 concealed carry law probably wouldn't have helped since the NIU shooting took place in a classroom of freshmen and sophomores -- 18, 19, and 20-year-olds. The instructor, who was older, was among the first shot.
I am in favor of concealed carry for Illinois. I'm simply pointing out that it will be an uphill battle, given the mindset of public officials.
“Lastly, an over-21 concealed carry law probably wouldn’t have helped since the NIU shooting took place in a classroom of freshmen and sophomores — 18, 19, and 20-year-olds. The instructor, who was older, was among the first shot.”
You are assuming that all freshmen and sophomores are under 21? There are many ex-military out there who go to college after their military career is over. A little ancedotal evidence. My first college class was at 28 years old. I was not the only “older” freshman in my class either.
if I were a student, I would carry a loaded and cocked semi auto pistol in my knap sack...in the outer pouch so I could pull it out quickly.
“This guy had to stop and reload 3-4 times and I find it baffling that nobody, out of the scores or hundreds of people who were close by and knew what was going on, could retain a presence of mind enough to watch and track this guy so that they could jump him when he reloaded. “
Everyone remembers the part in the 2nd A about the right of the people to keep and bear arms. However, many of us forget the part about the well regulated militia. Militia being the people that is and well regulated meaning trained. We should be trained in the use of firearms and when to use them.
The reason that you find former military, policemen, firemen etc. responding to tragedies like this is not because they are better than the average person. It’s because they are better trained than the average person to respond to emergencies. I don’t know if you have ever been in combat but I can tell you from my experiences in combat that the reason you don’t panic is not because of bravery. It is because you have been trained what to do in different circumstances. This gives you the confidence to do it.
Do not blame the people that fled or were scared in this scenario. Blame the society that thinks a child pointing his finger at someone and yelling bang in a schoolyard deserves suspencion. These young people have responded exactly as they have been trained.
On my last post to you, I was just pointing out that in general all freshman and sophomores are not under 21. There will always be a contingent of older students. Ex-military who would be more likely to be well trained in the use of firearms and want a CCW.
I realize that does not matter in the people’s republic of Illinois because of all the things you mentioned. However, in many other states it would matter because there are freshmen and sophomores who would have CCWs.
Within living memory all campuses-high school and college- had active shooting teams, hunting clubs and the paraphenalia attached to such activities attracted no more notice than the paraphenalia attached to tennis, baseball or golf.
The value in these discussions is to reaffirm that formmer lifestyle and the reasons for it, not to enumerate all the reasons IT-CAN'T-BE-DONE.
The society of campus shooting teams was much more aware and prepared to deal with outbreaks of irrationality than the society of today.
It is a society to which we should return.
Best regards,
Nope. One of the students killed at NIU was 32 years old. I'm simply going with the percentages. And the percentages say that most in that classroom were under 21.
In the states that have concealed carry, what percentage (of those eligible) choose to carry concealed? .01%? .001%? So in a class consisting of 150 students, 140 under 21 and 10 over 21, how many, statistically, are carrying?
Zero.
He had a shotgun and three handguns. While reloading the shotgun or one of the handguns, the other loaded weapons were available to him.
I'll take the 50-50 chance of dying by exiting the room rather than the 100% chance of dying by charging the shooter. Live on to fight another day, if you will.
My daddy once told me, don't bring your fists to a gunfight.
“In the states that have concealed carry, what percentage (of those eligible) choose to carry concealed? .01%? .001%? So in a class consisting of 150 students, 140 under 21 and 10 over 21, how many, statistically, are carrying?”
You are right that we who understand the issue have to do a better job of educating the public. More qualified people need to be conceal carrying. However, there are usually a lot of former military who did 4 years in the military and are going to school. These are the type of people to be counted upon in a school environment IMHO.
Ultimately, our own personal security is up to us, the people. Not the cops or politicians or anyone else, but us. The better we understand that, the more people will get trained and conceal carry.
I’m not arguing with you there. If you have no weapon, your best course of action is to get the heck out of there. I only decry that our country is trying to nueter its men and teach them that firearms are bad. We need to reverse that trend and get people trained in the use of firearms and carrying. Only then, will this madness be mitigated.
I’ve never heard of a mass shooting at a gunshow. They only happen in gun free zones like schools and I don’t think thats a coincidence.
Another example of why universal military training is so critical to a free society.
Statistically, casualties drop when a unit under attack charges the assailant.
Options for assault are many and varied and begin with throwing books, purses, umbrellas and shoes and range through physically tackling the shooter.
In the highly charged atmosphere of these unilateral attacks ANY distraction can cripple or defeat the plan of attack.
A good offense is the best defense.
Your Daddy should have reminded you your mind is your best weapon, guns, knives, brass knuckles et. al. are accessories at best.
Your weapon is always with you and always available for use.
It is your mind. Everything else is an accessory.
If you run, you have tactically and psychologically disabled your biggest asset-your mind.
Best regards,
This is following the old rule that you arm the people with the lower intelligence level. You see the really smart people that go to a university can't be trusted with a gun. They may hurt themselves!
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