Battle Company Is Out There

New York Times Magazine ^ | 24 Feb 2008 | ELIZABETH RUBIN

[lentulusgracchus]

I write these posts often with the lurker in mind who may be 14 years old, or 20, and who hasn't been educated adequately. Hope you don't think I'm lecturing Victor Krulak or Bernard Schwarzkopf on the art of war.

I'm not interested in throwing anyone a pity party. But the description of the 10th Mountain troops sounded like combat fatigue, and I'm interested in the Army's finding some way to reduce its effects more, or to offset them, so that the enemy does not realize any benefit from its effects on our people. My suggestion was "platooning" -- multiple units assigned to one OP like this one, platooning in and out of the line to refit more frequently, like the Navy's Gold and Blue crews in the ballistic-missile submarine fleet. Pressure stays on the bad guys, comes off our guys.

Apparently we disagree on that point, whether our troops are experiencing combat fatigue and gradually losing their effectiveness through the accumulated effects of strain. Whereas the enemy, not visibly so. (Which is not the same as saying, "visibly not so".)

[maine-iac7]

you have freepmail

[maine-iac7]

I think one of the things that may have gotten the previous division - mountain - down could be that they had deployed for 12 months - their 12 months up, they were overjoyed to get a pass out of hell - they were packed to go - some had even landed on the base at Fort Bragg! = and as they disembarked on the tarmac were told to get back on = they were going straight back for 3 more months...that had to be a major blow - and a mind bender

[patriciaruth]

The added months of deployment has happened to several units we have adopted, most notably the 172nd Stryker Brigade out of Alaska, after hard duty in the border towns and sand along the Syrian border with Iraq were literally in air or back home when told to turn around and go into battle in Baghdad.

They had more KIA added after their families had thought them home free. Very very tough reality in this Long War with Islamofascism.

Most American civilians are not up to the task of supporting our troops in this kind of fight for the survival of our country and culture. They get as war weary as the soldiers on the front lines, and they aren’t seeing their buddies die gruesomely or having to choose between several inhumane responses to a threat in order to survive.

Facing evil face to face is horror. As Sherman said, “War is Hell.” Literally, being in Hell ... and fighting demons, and becoming demonlike in order to fight your way back to a place where other people have been able to remain civilized because of your sacrifice.

[patriciaruth]

Ping.

Recommend read the comments in the thread, too.

[lentulusgracchus]

...that had to be a major blow - and a mind bender

Aw, man -- "the rest of the story" as Paul Harvey likes to say. Didn't pick that up, I don't think they mentioned it in the piece.

Well, that is just failure to execute (or decide) timely by somebody. Hey, if they had to do another three months, did it have to be up in the mountains? is what I want to know. Oh, wait -- continutity, yeah, I get it.

Got to be a better way.

Another thing I sorta didn't notice before is that they're also doing that rotation-date notification thing. Letting the troops in the field calculate many days in advance how long they have left, => "short-timer syndrome", known in the Big War as the FUBIS attitude -- "I'm shipping". Which was generally thought very poorly of back then, and yet this rotation-date policy foments just that kind of thinking. Shorter tours, but no date certain, would seem to be a better way. JMHO.

At least they're keeping units together and moving them as a body. That appears to be one thing they learned from Vietnam.

[Grimmy]

“Apparently we disagree on that point, whether our troops are experiencing combat fatigue and gradually losing their effectiveness through the accumulated effects of strain. Whereas the enemy, not visibly so. (Which is not the same as saying, “visibly not so”.)”

Here’s where you and I rub up against an issue. Like you, I’m not speaking primarily AT you but with others who may be listening in.

Journalists, and others, regardless of intention, will focus on the pain and misery and make that the story. It’s about pulling on heart strings. It’s about evoking emotional responses. It’s about bypassing reason.

I do find it strange that you can list mechanisms long developed to help counter fatigue issues in military personnel and then claim that someone should do something to limit combat fatigue in a unit you are only familiar with through a single reporter’s opinion piece.

Do you really believe that this unit’s senior command is clueless, uncaring, callous and incompetent?

I’ll answer for you, since I think I can do so accurately. That answer would be no. You do not think so. But you do continue to operate at an emotional level of response in exactly the way that leads to getting your defenses eventually beaten down through frustration, worry and fear which will leave you open to the suggestion that the command is incompetent, uncaring, callus... whatever.

Heart sting tugs are a primary indicator that it’s time to analyze and evaluate at a clinical response level. Otherwise, it’s all about being open to manipulation.

[Lusis]

The problem here is one that has continued since the Korean War...we are not prepared to fight an enemy that uses maneuver, fieldcraft, suprise, and psychology with a decentralized command/control, instead of firepower and attrition with a centralized command/control. In short, after 50+ years, we are still not prepared to fight those who use guerilla-style tactics.

For some reason, we still seem to think that the technology bought from defense contractors will make-up for shortcomings in training and skill among our troops. The problem is, our troops (specifically the NCOs) are too wrapped-up in training the troops how to use and maintain their gear rather than how to out-maneuver and out-think the enemy.

When I was an infanty squad leader, I would have loved nothing more than to take my squad out to the nearby woods and train on our own. But no, there were too many bereaucratic tasks to be done (endless details, paperwork, etc), and someone up the chain-of-command would have frowned on the idea; and God forbid that we would ever decide to come up with out own solutions to tactical challenges, because we would still be forced to fight the same way we have over a half-century ago.

[Grimmy]

“When I was an infanty squad leader, I would have loved nothing more than to take my squad out to the nearby woods and train on our own.”

We used to do quit a lot of that at platoon level. This was as a USMC grunt in the early to mid ‘80s though. I have no direct knowledge of whether or not that has been maintained. I would rather doubt it has been since the op tempo is very tight now.

I do contest your understanding of the problem. There do exist military commands that are specifically designed to engage at guerrilla/counter guerrilla and other than conventional methods.

Not all forces can, nor should, be all things at all times. There still remains the need to occupy and maintain hard points in contested areas by conventional means.

[Lusis]

It's not really op-tempo, as it is the fact that the vast majority of the time in the op-tempo it taken up with tasks unrelated to learning/training combat skills.

As for the point about forces specialized in non-conventional warfare, the fact remains that it is the conventional forces that are facing the tasks in the story, and it was conventional forces that did most of the work against the guerillas we've fought in the past. So the common-sense questions arise: why aren't conventional forces taught those skills?

Specialized forces in our military also enjoy something our enemies do as well. That is the freedom to develop one's own "playbook" at the squad level and use each individuals skills to the collective advantage. We expect soldiers to be homogenized, when in fact people aren't.

Our enemies do not use conventional skills, since they rely on maneuver rather than firepower to defeat us, even at the "hard points" (Battle of Hue, anyone?). So again, why are we sticking to 50 year old doctrine?

[Grimmy]

On the surface, it does sound like a fix, but it totally unworkable as a doctrine. You’ll end up with units getting themselves obliterated. This has happened before in history.

And do remember, your reacting to one article written, not by a knowledgeable soldier or someone with a professional perspective, but by a journalist using primarily emotional hooks.

I am not saying that this piece of reportage is meant as anything other than telling the story from the front, but remember who’s telling the story.

The enemy does not use any magically innovative skills, they simply operate with zero accountability. How do you think that’d play here on the homefront?

How many of our soldiers do we need to see being brought up on bullshit charges by head hunting prosecutors before we catch a cup of clue that the US military is operating at the extreme edge of allowable pursuit of the enemy as dictated by dumbass kneejerk emos on the home front?

Part of becoming a soldier is supposed to involve developing an understanding that sometimes things just have to suck and there’s no way around it but to deal with the suckage.

When did that get removed from the training program?

There will always be hard duty. There will always be frustration, fear and anxiety. There will always also be those who allow themselves to be undressed, bent over a bench and turned into the enemy’s punk because they can not see through the process of being manipulated by those who play on their fears, frustrations and anxieties.

That is not aimed at you. But it is aimed right between the eyes of all the whiners and blame gamers that dominate the area of discussion just about everywhere such things are discussed.

[Grimmy]

For the lurkers or others who may come to this thread later, here’s some searchables on units developed in direct response to battlefield needs during the wars where we, supposedly, had no clue on what to do in the area of guerrilla or irregular warfare.

Korean War:
8086th and 8240th. “White Tigers”. Formation of the Special Forces in ‘52.

Vietnam:
MACV-SOG, USMC Force Recon. SEALs. LRRP company.

That list is not exhaustive but is a good place to start.

Every war has driven it’s own doctrinal evolutionary process. And every battlefront in every war has mandated differing approaches to problems and issues.

Nothing new under the sun.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[Lusis]

All those units you just mentioned...have had very little effect in the strict-control and doctrine of the conventional US military. In fact, they were very much removed from all that. God I'd love to carry a suppressed Swedish-K, an AK, or whatever weapon I thought would help me do the job (like they did). But instead, we have to do with what someone else in the Army bureaucracy has deemed sufficient.

And remember, wars are won through accomplishing strategic goals, not through body counts, especially ones gained by dropping bombs on neightborhoods. That is the lesson in 4th Generation Warfare that we refuse to learn.

[Grimmy]

There’s a reason for the strict control in standard military outfits.

It’s because it’s required in standard military outfits.

Yeah, we refuse to learn. Americans are stupid, stupid Americans... the usual bullshit.

News flash. IF we went with the fantasy pipe dream type oranization and doctrine you have convinced yourself we should have, we’d have to put in place filtering and selection requirements proper for such units. That would mean cutting our possible maximum military size to only include those few select men capable of operating in such organizations and doctrines. This would reduce us sufficiently to guarantee each and every unit got defeated in detail due to having no conventional force structure to provide the cover and protection that is so often necessary.

[maine-iac7]

YOur post is superb - it aught to be required of every person, and most especially the libs in DC, to write 100 times until they at least get a glimmer ...

_{U have Free mail}

[Bigg Red]

Thank you for posting this. God bless and keep these brave men.

Can’t say I am too impressed with the writer, though. And, yes, I did read the entire piece.

[maine-iac7]

I just got my copy of the NY Slimes Magazine -

The article itself is decent, considering - but the lines the NY Slimes chose for the cover of the mag. have me seeing red. They WILL be hearing from me.

I realize they sent the writer out to get a hit piece, as the writer says, the question going in was "Why are so many civilians getting killed."

It seems, in reading her piece, that after being with the troops, getting to know them, seeing the battles, the blood and deaths up close and personal, witnessed how the Taliban operate, she found the answer - tho' not the one the Slimes wanted. The civilians get killed because the Taliban deliberately put them in harms way - so that their allies, like the NYSlimes can rush to their aid.

But the writer has no say in the cut lines - the editors reserve that 'right'

The editors had to comb through and dig deep to get the four derogatory quotes they put on the cover - and bypassed the pro-troops and anti-Taliban quotes - not including even one.

Their bias is showing - but when did it not?

Their chickens will come home to roost one day...in the meantime, let's see it they have to guts to print the 'letter to the editor' they will be getting from me.

And I hope they get deluged with letters letting them know just what scum we think they are...

They are still trying to whip up another Viet Nam era anti-troops 'surge' = we need to let them know it isn't going to happen...

[Grimmy]

Turning honorable men into victims for purposes of advancing an agenda of defeat and dishonor.

Those who fall for it are as guilty as those who work at producing the manipulation.

God Bless you, and your loved one pulling this hard duty and his fellow soldiers.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!