Posted on 02/25/2008 11:37:19 AM PST by fightinJAG
Good point.
Nader will not be a spoiler unless the rat nominee moves right. Nader is making noises just to keep the rat nominee hard left. Undoubtedly, the rat nominee will try to moderate from the current Marxist ideology. Nader wants to ensure that the rat nominee remains on the Marxist plantation.
Exactly.
If you didn’t vote for those RINOs, we would never have a prayer of constituting a majority, and people like Newt Gingrich and Henry Hyde would never have been in leadership positions.
And those who state it is “unprincipled” to ever vote for a RINO and still hoping-—I guess based on the rest of us being “unprincipled”-—that we’ll somehow come up with a Republican majority to stop the Rat administration they helped gain power by refusing to vote for the Republican nominee.
Sigh.
They are simply stating facts. Ralph Nader, and candidates like him, take votes away from the major party candidates, potentially changing the result of the election.
That is a fact, not scapegoating.
You are just assuming that the votes for the third party candidate are coming from another candidate. How do you know that the third party candidate isn't bringing out someone who wouldn't otherwise be voting?
It’s those who vote for Nader, and candidates like him, or who sit home, who look for scapegoats. They don’t want to acknowledge that the rest of the world views them as responsible for playing into the fact that third party candidates are ALWAYS nothing but spoilers. They want to blame the party, the candidates, the MSM, Hollywood, on and on . . . someone or something FORCED them to vote for a third candidate or to sit home.
I haven't heard one person say the party is forcing them to stay home or vote third party. If anything it is the supporter's of the main candidates that continuously trying to browbeat and force others to vote for their candidate.
Eventually people get fed up with the constant berating and throw their hands up and say, "Screw you guys. You're never getting my vote again."
Who is FORCING you not to support the Republican nominee?
I didn't realize there was a Republican nominee yet.
No one. You are an adult who is making a volitional choice. Deal with it.
Mm-hmm, I am an adult and I'll be happy with my decision in November whatever it is.
It's just too bad that McCain will have to deal with the fallout from treating so many people like crap over the past decade or so (a trait his followers are quick to emulate).
But I’m wondering if those who are refusing to vote for McCain see themselves at all in this.
As I said, they often say they are not responsible for the election of the other guy when they bail on the election or cast a protest vote.
But the big world out there thinks otherwise. It is what it is.
So, I’m wondering, if a person feels justified in refusing to vote for a particular nominee, what’s the problem with admitting that, thereby, they are helping the other guy get elected? What’s up with always trying to “blame” someone else for the result of the election?
Because it is only the loser candidate that makes the issue “a vote for a Third Party candidate is a vote for my opponent”
This is the immature loser whine everytime a 3d Party candidate comes along. Its never the mainstream party candidate sucking so bad
Third party votes never cost anyone an election. Being a bad candidate always does
By no means this is an endorsement for Nader....he actually is no different than McCain, Hillary or Obama.
Would like to see a good CONSERVATIVE third party candidate run
“But I’m wondering if those who are refusing to vote for McCain see themselves at all in this.”
yeah, yeah. We GET it. can we drop it already ?
he doesn’t need any money. Sunlight and wind power are for free.
Of course not all a third party candidate’s vote are taken away from the other candidates, but enough are that it can and usually does impact the result of the election. That’s beyond dispute.
And, yes, some people apparently are claiming they are forced to cast a protest vote. They say it’s the party’s fault, the MSM, on and on the list goes, including “it’s their problem they didn’t give me a candidate I could vote for.”
The fact remains that no one is forcing them to vote or not vote a certain way. They are adults making their individual decision based on their own reasons and principles.
All I am saying is own up to that fact-—that no one is forcing a person to vote or not vote a certain way-—and own up to the fact that it’s well-established that casting a protest vote often throws elections.
I don’t see anything difficult about those propositions.
But whether you feel good about it or not, your vote affects the outcome of the election because we have an entrenched two-party system. If we didn't, your argument would be very valid.
But this is a zero-sum game. If you don't act to STOP a candidate, then you are allowing him to win.
Do you deny that a person can be just as responsible for failing to act as for acting in a certain situation?
That's an established principle in law, for example, and I don't see why it doesn't in politics. In fact, I see a moral imperative to do what one can to STOP a greater evil.
When you state that "for the act of casting a vote to have any meaning at all, then I will vote FOR that candidate, in a field of candidates, that most closely reflects my views. Every other consideration is tangential, including whether or not a candidate is “electable”", you declare that by definition you are willing to make your vote a futile act. I can't agree that that is meaningful in any way except that it may give the voter the warm and fuzzies.
Wow, the big world says it is. Actually a few people say it is, that doesn't equate to the "big world". Regardless of how many people say it, it doesn't change things. I refuse to vote for McCain. I will not vote for a liberal regardless of the initial after his/her name. McCain is not a conservative, he is at least as liberal as Hillary and probably very close to Obama. If Republicans want my vote they had better run a conservative as a candidate, and don't give me that BS about the "majority" picked him for the nominee, we both know that is a lie. Open primaries and the RNC, plus the MSM, picked McCain. If we were to have one big primary on the same day for republican nominee, he would not be the winner, I would bet good money on it.
Once again, regardless of who gets elected, I will not vote for McCain, I will vote 3rd party or write in, if you can't handle that, and I am not the only one who will not vote for this sleaze bag, you had better make sure the RNC nominates a conservative next time around. This time I will work to get conservative senators and reps elected.
Oh, yes, don't give me that "he is a prisoner of war and a veteran" crap, I am a veteran also, 66 years old and served my country with the best of them and McCain is absolutely the worse republican candidate I have ever seen running for President, including Dole.
There were good conservatives running in the primaries, but hardly anyone voted for them. Why would we expect to see a great upwelling of support if they ran on a third party ticket?
I would love to!
Um, the RNC doesn't nominate the candidate; WE do. And in this very race there were several more conservative candidates, but guess what? Hardly anyone voted for them.
And instead of taking responsibility for that, people sit around moaning about how the RNC this, the GOP that and on and on. It's OUR responsibility to rally around a candidate and we didn't do it. So of course a less conservative candidate won.
Thank you for working to get conservative congresscritters elected. However,the same reasoning that people are now using to justify refusing to vote for the Republican nominee caused many conservatives to sit home in 2006, and is something that will have to be overcome in 2008.
We can't constitute a majority in Congress without a bunch of good, decent conservatives in RINO districts having to vote for RINOs. Try to square that with most of the rationales justifying not supporting the nominee (whoever it turned out to be) because he was a RINO, and you see the problem.
It's a well-established fact that protest voting throws elections.
Thank you for your service.
Ummm, you are wrong. The early primaries were held in states that allow open primaries, I guess you missed that huh?, and the people who threw McCain to the top of the heap were not conservatives. The RNC pushed for the Rinos, including McCain, the MSM pushed for McCain and some republicans fell for it. I will vote for the candidate that holds my principles and beliefs, otherwise why vote at all?
McCain does not hold any of my beliefs, altho he talks as if he does sometimes his voting record says different.
Conservatives win elections, they always have, but the republican party officials have to keep learning this over and over. If you wish to live in a socialist country then feel free to vote for McCain, I will not, I want to live in the free country I was born into in 1942 and if it means not voting for McCain, or any other liberal, then that is what I will do.
In case you are not familiar with this concept is is called having the courage of your convictions and standing by them. I know this is probably a new concept for you, I would imagine you are very young yet and have never actually lived in a free country and think that if you compromise enough you will eventually win. Compromise leads to defeat, and we are well on our way to being a communist country and that's the name of that tune.
No, no, you mean the people of IA, NH, SC, and FL did not rally around the conservative candidate. By the time those four primaries were over the Republican primary was basically over except for the counting of votes.
The GOP set it up that way. They set the rules for their primaries so please stop trying to absolve them from any responsibility for this fiasco.
Do you not agree that even if all we got out of the last years was Roberts and Alito, that’s not chopped liver?
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