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Boy punished for T-shirt with gun image
ASSOCIATED PRESS ^ | March 10, 2008

Posted on 03/10/2008 4:15:00 PM PDT by kingattax

LANCASTER, Pa. -- The family of a middle school student who was given detention for wearing a T-shirt bearing the image of a gun has filed a federal freedom of speech lawsuit against the school district.

Donald Miller III, 14, went to Penn Manor High School in December wearing a T-shirt he said was intended to honor his uncle, a U.S. Army soldier fighting in Iraq.

The shirt bears the image of a military sidearm and on the front pocket says "Volunteer Homeland Security." On the back, over another image of the weapon, are the words "Special issue Resident Lifetime License - United States Terrorist Hunting Permit - Permit No. 91101 - Gun Owner - No Bag Limit."

Officials at the Millersville school told him to turn his shirt inside out. When Miller refused, he got two days of detention.

His parents, Donald and Tina Miller of Holtwood, have accused the Penn Manor School District in a lawsuit of violating their son's First Amendment rights with a "vague Orwellian policy" that stifles both patriotism and free speech.

But an attorney for the school district said school must create a safe environment for students in the post-Columbine era, and bringing even the image of a gun to school violates the district's policy.

"There's a much higher level of sensitivity these days," Penn Manor attorney Kevin French said. "But it's based on reality."

The lawsuit was filed in January. A federal judge will hold a conference on the case March 31.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: banglist; dresscodes; guns; kevinfrench; libsgonewild; nannystate; publiceducation; publicschools; tshirt
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1 posted on 03/10/2008 4:15:01 PM PDT by kingattax
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To: kingattax

2 posted on 03/10/2008 4:17:49 PM PDT by IllumiNaughtyByNature (Senator McCain, what did GWB promise you back in 2000? And you believed him? BWAHAAAAA!)
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To: kingattax
"There's a much higher level of sensitivity these days," Penn Manor attorney Kevin French said. "But it's based on reality."

Pictures of guns have been known to cause massacres? /s
3 posted on 03/10/2008 4:18:05 PM PDT by monkeycard (There is no such thing as too much ammo.)
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To: kingattax

Knowing the “ZERO” tolerance policy and nanny mentality of most school systems and judicial precedence the child has a low probability winning his case in the liberal lower courts.


4 posted on 03/10/2008 4:19:02 PM PDT by Liaison
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To: kingattax
Here are some pics:


5 posted on 03/10/2008 4:24:59 PM PDT by HighWheeler (The higher the concentration of libs, the bigger the tragedy that follows.)
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To: kingattax

Educated Eggsheads with Zero common sense


6 posted on 03/10/2008 4:25:23 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Liaison

But can they try to go back to the three R’s? Nah.


7 posted on 03/10/2008 4:25:57 PM PDT by gathersnomoss (General George Patton had it right.)
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that picture of a gun can scares their pantywaisted principal?


8 posted on 03/10/2008 4:26:34 PM PDT by HighWheeler (The higher the concentration of libs, the bigger the tragedy that follows.)
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To: kingattax
The kids family can't win. For the simple reason that if he does the next kid will be wearing a shirt that says "Kill'em all let god sort'em out", Or how about the one that has a photograph of a couple having sex.

by drawing the line and giving the kid the option of turning it inside out they prevent any one else for doing worse.

9 posted on 03/10/2008 4:27:52 PM PDT by verga (I'm not an apologist I just play one on TV)
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That said, I wouldnt send the kid to school in that shirt.


10 posted on 03/10/2008 4:27:52 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: kingattax

“...bringing even the image of a gun to school violates the district’s policy.”

— — —

So which takes precedence here: Freedom of expression, or a fabricated “policy”?


11 posted on 03/10/2008 4:29:28 PM PDT by HighWheeler (The higher the concentration of libs, the bigger the tragedy that follows.)
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To: mylife

Read up on what Patriots did to the British.


12 posted on 03/10/2008 4:30:32 PM PDT by HighWheeler (The higher the concentration of libs, the bigger the tragedy that follows.)
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To: kingattax
Fire everyone at the school, blackball their entire extended families from any form of education employment for life, and start over.

Simple.

13 posted on 03/10/2008 4:31:08 PM PDT by JasonC
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To: kingattax

Let them brainwash the children and the resulting adults will forever be anti-gunners voting against the Second Amendment.


14 posted on 03/10/2008 4:37:24 PM PDT by Dagny&Hank
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To: verga

Based on other stories I’ve read about this case, the kid will win.

The schools policy was fuzzy at best, and if read literally, they couldn’t disallow this shirt.

They should ban all writing on clothing, but the school needs more mental horsepower to come to that conclusion.


15 posted on 03/10/2008 4:40:05 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (If America falls, darkness will cover the face of the earth for a thousand years.)
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To: metmom; Tired of Taxes; Aquinasfan; wintertime

He should have worn a T-shirt depicting two people committing a sex act, preferably people of the same gender.

(heavy sarcasm)


16 posted on 03/10/2008 4:40:12 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (You can't be serious about national security unless you're serious about border security)
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To: HighWheeler

If he had had a rainbow on it also, nothing would have been said.


17 posted on 03/10/2008 4:43:19 PM PDT by ozaukeemom (Nuke the ACLU and their snivel rights)
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To: DaveLoneRanger; 2Jedismom; aberaussie; Aggie Mama; agrace; Antoninus; arbooz; bboop; bill1952; ...

ANOTHER REASON TO HOMESCHOOL

This ping list is for the “other” articles of interest to homeschoolers about education and public school. If you want on/off this list, please freepmail me. The main Homeschool Ping List by DaveLoneRanger handles the homeschool-specific articles. This can occasionally be a fairly high volume list.
18 posted on 03/10/2008 4:45:58 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Balding_Eagle

“...the school needs more mental horsepower to come to that conclusion.”

— — —

That, they don’t have.


19 posted on 03/10/2008 4:46:13 PM PDT by HighWheeler (The higher the concentration of libs, the bigger the tragedy that follows.)
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To: Clintonfatigued
"There's a much higher level of sensitivity these days," Penn Manor attorney Kevin French said. "But it's based on reality."

Reality? Like what these people are out of touch with?

20 posted on 03/10/2008 4:46:55 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Gabz

ping a ling

This one could cover lots of bases for you.


21 posted on 03/10/2008 4:49:04 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: IllumiNaughtyByNature

I work with preschool kids. I did a home visit a couple days ago. This 5 year old built a block tower and was setting traps for the “people in the desert who want to steal the Army’s trucks”. He then took the “bad thieves” and said “bad guys go to hell” threw them on the ground and stepped on them. the mom was apologetic, said they have a nephew who is a Navy Seal. She looked really surprised when I told her that it looked to me like her son had a pretty good grasp of reality and moral development.


22 posted on 03/10/2008 4:49:44 PM PDT by chae (I am karmic retribution)
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To: chae

LOL. Nice.


23 posted on 03/10/2008 4:51:45 PM PDT by IllumiNaughtyByNature (Senator McCain, what did GWB promise you back in 2000? And you believed him? BWAHAAAAA!)
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To: kingattax
They would hate Texas Tech fans - our slogan is "Guns Up"


24 posted on 03/10/2008 4:52:13 PM PDT by WhyisaTexasgirlinPA (Even my tagline is sad....I can't stand ANY of the candidates!)
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To: verga
"Kill'em all let god sort'em out"

I had that t-shirt in high school.

By the way, do you know what your name means in Spanish?

25 posted on 03/10/2008 4:53:40 PM PDT by humblegunner ()
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To: HighWheeler
that picture of a gun can scares their pantywaisted principal?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I am willing to bet the principal is gay.

Also,,,,One of the major objectives of our Marxist dominated government schools is to emasculate the American boy! Marxists need pantywaisted girl-men.

26 posted on 03/10/2008 4:55:16 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: kingattax
I'll see if I still have a shirt to send the kid.


27 posted on 03/10/2008 4:56:07 PM PDT by labette
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To: verga
by drawing the line and giving the kid the option of turning it inside out they prevent any one else for doing worse.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You don't “get it”!

Government schools, freedom of conscience, and the First Amendment can NOT coexist!

Solution: Privatize universal K-12 education. Let parents, principal, and board of directors of private schools work these matters out quietly and agreeably.

Government should NEVER be in the business of ordering anyone into one of its minimum security prisons ( mis-named “schools”) and telling them to shut up!

28 posted on 03/10/2008 4:59:05 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: Balding_Eagle

They should ban all writing on clothing,

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The government should get out of the business of ordering children ( who have committed no crime) into government buildings that look like minimum security prisons, and telling them to shut up!

Solution: Privatize universal K-12 education. Allow these matters to be settled privately between parents, principals, teachers, and the boards of directors of **private** schools!

Government schools are a First Amendment and freedom of conscience abomination!


29 posted on 03/10/2008 5:04:24 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: kingattax; All
Bart Lib Blackboard
30 posted on 03/10/2008 5:05:57 PM PDT by musicman
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To: IllumiNaughtyByNature; All
Lib Hunting permit
31 posted on 03/10/2008 5:08:23 PM PDT by musicman
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To: Dagny&Hank
Let them brainwash the children and the resulting adults will forever be anti-gunners voting against the Second Amendment.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The Marxists running the schools are hard at work doing just that. The Marxist need a defenseless population.

Marxism is our nation's MOST serious threat. They are hard at work indoctrinating the next generation of voters.

So...What are conservatives going to do about it?

NO. The answer is NOT to try to reform the government schools. The correct answer is to SHUT DOWN government schools permanently!

Conservatives could do this if they set up endowments ( like Harvard's) that would give private vouchers to students attending private schools. Also, these endowments could award grants to teachers willing to start private schools.

32 posted on 03/10/2008 5:09:23 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: wintertime
You don't “get it”!

Government schools, freedom of conscience, and the First Amendment can NOT coexist!

Solution: Privatize universal K-12 education. Let parents, principal, and board of directors of private schools work these matters out quietly and agreeably.

Government should NEVER be in the business of ordering anyone into one of its minimum security prisons ( mis-named “schools”) and telling them to shut up!

SIGH Yes I do get it, I have gotten it for the last 14 years which is how long I have been teaching high school.

Your plan is really great except for the execution part of it.

Private schools cost a lot of money, more then the average citizen has. That is why the cost is spread out over ALL the citizens.

How are you going to insure that all children will receive a quality education? would you still administer standardized tests? Who would make them up?

Obviously you do have some sort of axe to grind since you have posted your reply three times that I have seen so far, but I really think you need to think this out a bit more.

33 posted on 03/10/2008 5:27:12 PM PDT by verga (I'm not an apologist I just play one on TV)
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To: humblegunner
By the way, do you know what your name means in Spanish?

Yes I also know what it means in Latin and Italian as well. For the record I am Sicilian.

34 posted on 03/10/2008 5:29:13 PM PDT by verga (I'm not an apologist I just play one on TV)
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To: wintertime

No doubt.

What I was suggesting was a simple, fast, evenhanded solution.

Yours is the ultimate solution.


35 posted on 03/10/2008 5:34:34 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (If America falls, darkness will cover the face of the earth for a thousand years.)
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To: ozaukeemom

It is sad that the homo-leninists have coopted the rainbow, formerly a symbol of God’s forgiveness of mankind.


36 posted on 03/10/2008 5:37:27 PM PDT by ichabod1 ("Self defense is not only our right, it is our duty." President Ronald Reagan)
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To: Balding_Eagle

Nonsense like this is why kids should be made to wear uniforms to school.


37 posted on 03/10/2008 5:40:40 PM PDT by glorgau
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To: kingattax
The more that issues like this come up the more I embrace the legal theory of Justice Thomas in regards to the 1st Amendment and being a kid in school. Inasmuch as I embrace the Constitution and its rights entirely, school kids in the context of being a student in school do NOT have 1st Amendment rights to freedom of speech or ‘expression’ in a way that precludes them being told to cease and desist or go home.

Banning the picture of a gun is a stupid policy......but it is the policy. The issue of freedom of expression would come in if a boy was told that “Give War a Chance” on a T-shirt with a Marine emblem was verboten, but a “Give Peace a Chance” T-Shirt (or “No Blood for Oil”) was allowed and even encouraged.

38 posted on 03/10/2008 5:41:44 PM PDT by allmendream ("A Lyger is pretty much my favorite animal."NapoleonD)
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To: verga
For the record I am Sicilian.

Fascinating.

39 posted on 03/10/2008 5:43:47 PM PDT by humblegunner ()
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To: IllumiNaughtyByNature

Ha!

These liberal louts would have had the same reaction if only the “permit” message were on the shirt, without any gun image.


40 posted on 03/10/2008 5:48:06 PM PDT by G Larry (HILLARY CARE = DYING IN LINE!)
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To: verga
Private schools cost a lot of money,

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ah,,,The uncreative mind of a person indoctrinated in Prussian style, prison-like schools!

No! Private schools do NOT need to cost a “lot” of money. I suggest that the Prussian model be avoided completely! They are expensive to build and run. They have have heavy regulatory, zoning, insurance, and employee tax issues. Also, it is cruel to herd children about in same-age packs and treat them like prisoners.

Conservatives should start now to create private scholarship funds that would grant private vouchers to students attending private schools. They could also award grants to teachers willing to open mini-schools, micro-schools, one room school houses, dame schools, virtual schools, and homeschool cooperatives.

With today's technology is possible to have an excellent educational product that is also more flexible and adaptable to the child's needs and abilities, and FAR MORE HUMANE!

Along with funding and creating private alternatives, conservatives should be working vigorously to put every government teacher out of a government school job. These Marxist indoctrination camps need to be shut down ASAP! Permanently!

41 posted on 03/10/2008 5:53:34 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: verga

“Private schools cost a lot of money, more then the average citizen has. That is why the cost is spread out over ALL the citizens.”

The private school I sent my oldest daughter to cost less than half as much as the Kansas City school district spends per student every unit. Kansas City also has a private foundation that gives scholarships so kids can go to private or parochial schools. It can be done and public schools are nothing more than indoctrination centers.


42 posted on 03/10/2008 5:56:08 PM PDT by MissouriConservative (Conservative looking for a true Conservative candidate to support)
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To: glorgau

Nonsense like this is why kids should be made to wear uniforms to school.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Like the Hitler youth!


43 posted on 03/10/2008 5:57:51 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: allmendream

in a way that precludes them being told to cease and desist or go home.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What happens to the child who goes home and REFUSES to return? What happens to his parents?

The fundamental problem here is that government schools are prisons for children who have committed no crime. They are bullied and threaten with armed police action by a government and then told to SHUT UP!

Sorry! But this is a First Amendment abomination!

Get rid of government schooling!


44 posted on 03/10/2008 6:04:25 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: glorgau
Nonsense like this is why kids should be made to wear uniforms to school.

As I pointed out, the school will not be able to think of that as a reasonable solution.

And, if they were, they would be unable to come up with the courage to implement it.

This school has had similar problems in the past, and will continue to have problems.

45 posted on 03/10/2008 6:07:25 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (If America falls, darkness will cover the face of the earth for a thousand years.)
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To: MissouriConservative; verga
The private school I sent my oldest daughter to cost less than half as much as the Kansas City school district spends per student every unit.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It cost MUCH less than half.

If your school district is like mine,new building costs, and land acquisition is not included in the cost of educating a government school child. They are bond issues. Neither are the retired teachers pension and health benefits. Retired teachers a simply considered retired “state workers” and not included in the government school budget. Also, our district uses MANY services of the county and this too is off budget. For example many repairs and lawn service is on the county expense rolls.

By the way, my county is building a new $50 MILLION dollar high school. Not one dime of that is included in the yearly estimates of how much it costs to educate a government child.

46 posted on 03/10/2008 6:10:44 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: allmendream
Banning the picture of a gun is a stupid policy......but it is the policy.

That's not true.

Banning the picture of a gun was the principals interpetation of a vague policy. Any common sense reading, and every legal reading of this case will differ from the principals reading.

The kid will win in court.

47 posted on 03/10/2008 6:10:48 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (If America falls, darkness will cover the face of the earth for a thousand years.)
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To: wintertime

I think when my oldest was in school, the average for the district spending was 10 - 12k, of course that was because some judge down in Springfield MO decided we weren’t doing enough for desegregation. So in order to desegregate, they had to build modern buildings, one with an olympic sized swimming pool. Then they developed “magnet” schools or better known as themed schools that didn’t teach a dang thing. They now have two “african centered” schools, one middle, one high school. Yet after a few billion dollars and the desegregation lawsuit gone, this district just recently lost its state accreditation....lol

No one understands why the district isn’t functioning with all the funds that are being spent. They can’t see the forest for the trees.


48 posted on 03/10/2008 7:01:21 PM PDT by MissouriConservative (Conservative looking for a true Conservative candidate to support)
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To: kingattax

Dang! What an awesome t-shirt! I want one :-)

Seriously, they would have trouble with a t-shirt my son wears too. He has an orange and black Halloween t-shirt that has bats, spiders, and leaves in a collage that, from a distance, appears to be a skull.


49 posted on 03/10/2008 7:10:14 PM PDT by Peanut Gallery ("An armed society is a polite society.")
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To: Professional Engineer

ping to #22

great story!


50 posted on 03/10/2008 7:14:42 PM PDT by Peanut Gallery ("An armed society is a polite society.")
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