Posted on 03/11/2008 8:05:26 AM PDT by abb
“The world would be so much simplier if we didnt have any rights and the cops could do what ever they wanted.”
The world would be so much simpler if we didn’t have any laws and people could do what ever they wanted.
“Depends if you’re a cop or not.”
Well, there’s no arguing with that.
“If he can’t handle some young jerk how would he ever handle a real criminal?”
My guess is he would have pulled out a real revolver instead of a taser gun.
No, just that many speed limits are set at arbitrarily low levels and are enforced in situations where there is no danger to other motorists. Additionally, as I posted previously, speed limits in the United States are lower than in most European countries even though our population densities are lower in most states, especially outside the Northeast. Europeans may be socialistic and agnostic, but they are not as big a group of micromanagers of peoples' lives as our bureaucrats are.
Uh, he was ORDERED by the cop to get out of the car.
I don’t know about the 2nd sting but any idiot knows you DON’T get out of the car and follow the cop back to his car especially in anger. Dumb ass move if I ever saw one.
“My guess is he would have pulled out a real revolver instead of a taser gun.”
Probably and based on this case it would have been yet another case of deadly force being used incorrectly.
“rather than the unjust nature of the law. “
So, isn’t a courtroom the proper place to make that argument, rather than to a cop on the side of the road?
Cop: Did you see the speed limit signs?
Driver: You mean the ones with red flags on them?
Cop: Yeah.
Driver: No, I didn’t.
“No, just that many speed limits are set at arbitrarily low levels and are enforced in situations where there is no danger to other motorists.”
Many drivers in the U.S. are arbitrarily low level drivers, who, even though it rains month, after month, every summer, can’t figure out that it might be slick.
Who, even though they have the best in four wheel drive technology, run off the road and get stuck, or crash into trees, at the slighest hint of snow on the road.
The most ‘danger’ on the road is not the condition of the road itself, it is the other drivers.
The best thing to do if you are stopped for a traffic violation, whether the call is fair or not, is to hand over your license, registration, proof of insurance, etc., shut up, sign the ticket, and pay the fine before the deadline. The other choices are to take a day off from work and hire an attorney at considerable expense for a court case or get in the face of a police officer who can inflict pain and humiliation and a short stay at the local jail at his whim and definitely face a court case. The system is unfair in many respects, but this is no longer the land of the free and the home of the brave.
There are admittedly poor drivers on the road, but are American drivers worse than their European counterparts, where the speed limits are higher?
I watched the video. I can see it in the officers demeanor & attitude and verbiage. I see him unneccessarily escalate the situation when no threat to his safety is presented.
Unless I have missed something in this news story, there is no indication at all that he was caught in a speed trap.
I'm quite aware of what the term means.
There is effectively little redress for someone who is technically in violation of an unjust law. The choices are to shut up and pay the fine within the prescribed time, lose a day's work to go to court, plus the cost of an attorney, or get in the face of a cop who can inflict pain and humiliation, plus send you to a short stay at the local jail, more or less at whim. Even if you choose to fight the citation, the local magistrate is in on the racket and will dismiss your complaint in most cases, especially if you are not a local.
All of that is correct, if it was a speed trap, but also beside the point.
It is ultimately useless to fight a law at the point of enforcement, fair or not. The trooper has neither the means nor the authority to change the law. It's his job to enforce the law, not change it.
Speed traps are much more effectively dealt with by the creation of state laws which forbid them. A significant group of travelers complaining to the state of the offending city or county could cause such a law to be passed.
Politicians at the Federal level, and in most states and many localities, have become overly enamored of their "authoriteh" and it is difficult, if not impossible, to seek redress of grievances under the current system. There has always been a "Boss Hog" mentality in local governments, but with the increase in laws and regulations and the element of greed, abuse of power is far greater than it was 50 or 100 years ago.
That's a good bit of generalization. Fortunately, there are states which limit the authority of local jurisdictions to play with speed limits. (See The Speed Trap Exchange for some examples)
All of your general contempt for overbearing (or worse) LEOs etc. is one that I share. But confrontations with such jerks are more easily avoided than won.
Don't violate the law, and you're much less likely to face a jerk cop.
A significant group of travelers complaining to the state of the offending city or county could cause such a law to be passed.
That has happened in some states such as Texas, where the concentration of population in four major metro areas allow for a strong impact on the Legislature. On other states, such as Oklahoma, the two big cities do not have the same impact on the legislature, and there is something of an "old boy" network that protects corrupt local governments and over-the-top police agencies. For instance, the last session of the Oklahoma Legislature repealed a previous restriction imposed on Big Cabin, a town of 400 located at the junction of I-44 and US 69 that is incorporated mainly to impose hefty fines from people leaving the Interstate at 75 mph and getting on US 69, which drops to 40.
That's a good bit of generalization. (concerning the Boss Hog mentality in small town governments)
The same mentality exists on a bigger scale as well. Corruption and hypocrisy know no rural vs. urban bounds, e.g. Eliot Spitzer. However, the local magistrate is part of the local political establishment, and has little reason to want to rock the boat. Even hiring an attorney will usually do no good, as such matters are often decided without a jury. You then have to weigh the cost of taking a day off and of hiring an attorney vs. just pleading nolo contendere and paying the fine.
Don't violate the law, and you're much less likely to face a jerk cop.
It is increasingly hard not to violate the law, and not just traffic laws, due to the ever increasing volume of regulations. A quote from Atlas Shrugged has proven to be prophetic.
“Did you really think we want those laws observed?” said Dr. Ferris. “We want them to be broken. You’d better get it straight that it’s not a bunch of boy scouts you’re up against... We’re after power and we mean it... There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What’s there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that’s the system, Mr. Reardon, that’s the game, and once you understand it, you’ll be much easier to deal with.”
blah,blah,blah.
LOL
No one gives a $h!+ what you’ve got to say any further on the subject, since you are obviously not paying attention.
You might try closing your mouth, watching the video and realizing that the cop was in the wrong.
Period. Plain and simple. Just like your brain.
Good day to you.
” I see him unneccessarily escalate the situation when no threat to his safety is presented.”
So, if Mr. Massey had signed the ticket, would any of this have happened?
Did the officer force Mr. Massey into refusing to sign the ticket?
What do the words “turn around and put your hands behind your back” mean?
I watched the video. I see Mr. Massey walking away from the officer, back towards his vehicle, after being told to turn around and put his hands behind his back.
His demeanor and attitude were also obvious. He wasn’t going to listen to anyone. He wasn’t going to take the ticket.
He was the authority (although he missed seeing two speed limit signs, a loose gravel sign, the red flags on them, and the police car in front of him), and he demonstrated to the officer by his actions that he wasn’t going to cooperate.
Was the officer in danger? Probably not. (of course, we got to watch the video over, and over, and saw that the driver seemed like a normal white guy with a family, and that he didn’t pull out a gun and shoot the officer at the end)
Did the officer ‘know’ he was safe? Remember, if could have been a deadly situation, because the Officer had to deal with it as it ‘happened’. Not from the safety of his couch and keyboard where he already ‘knew’ that the driver wasn’t armed or going to break into violence to keep from getting the ticket, because he read the article before watching the video.
whahhhh,whahhhh,whahhhh.
You have certainly impressed us all with your ability to provide intelligent rebuttal, and your inclusion of profanity (though well disguised) is so impressive.
Also noted is the fact that (just like Mr. Massey, ordering the cop around) you speak for everyone, you are the authority, and anyone who disagrees with you should be banned from ever posting on FR.
The simple fact is that Mr. Massey violated a posted speed limit. He delayed, obfuscated, and argued with the officer.
He refused to sign the ticket. The officer decided to take him in to post bond. Mr. Massey refused to cooperate.
Officer Gardner used the ‘least’ lethal force at his disposal.
Mr. Massey suffered no permanent injuries. (As a matter of fact, he jumped up from the ground pretty quickly after being tasered)
Mr. Massey went to jail to post bond. Mr. Massey was fined in court for speeding.
Mr. Massey had gotten the videotape from his lawyers, after it was edited and put it on YOUTUBE to cash in on the recent spate of ‘unjustified’ taserings (and there have been quite a few in the news), even though it was pretty obvious that Mr. Massey (who was IN CONTROL OF THE SITUATION) pretty much brought this all upon himself.
Mr. Massey filed a civil lawsuit and pocketed a settlement which saved the State a lot of money and time.
And they say you can’t make money off the internet.
“So is it ok for cops to act any way they want towards citizens?”
So is it ok for the citizens to act any way they want towards the cops?
“but are American drivers worse than their European counterparts, where the speed limits are higher?”
I don’t know.
Put some soccermom in an SUV talking on a cell phone on the Autobahn and let’s find out.
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