Chaldean archbishop kidnapped in Iraq found dead: church

Yahoo News ^ | March 13, 2008

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

I do hope you are not comparing the status of minorities in the west to religious minorities under Islamic rule.

You take this too far. 1930's Germany was a western nation. Few Christians in Muslim countries would willingly trade places with the Jews in Nazi Germany. The Nazis were an extreme, but so are the Islamofascists. The non-Nazi Christians in Germany did not remove Hitler without outside help.

[Aquinasfan]

Those extremists are in the minority, but get the most attention because of their heinous actions.

That may be true, but they are the true followers of Mohammed. A Mohammedan who rejects jihad rejects Mohammedanism.

[kellynla]

Sooner or later, we are gonna have to give the muzzies the jihad they so desperately want.

[LordBridey]

I do hope you are not comparing the status of minorities in the west to religious minorities under Islamic rule.

I'm merely stating the valid generalization that minorities in every culture are going to be discriminated against, sometimes in the most extreme way. Surely you are familiar with the image of "strange fruit"?

Your advocating the summary deportation of a minority group would seem to validate this observation. Are you a Muslim?

[farmer18th]

So...we are basing our hopes of a western style, representative government on El Cid and Moorish Spain of the 13th century?

[farmer18th]

There are some world views that are so violently opposed to each other they simply can’t co-exist. You really can’t have Communists in the state department, for example, because people who advocate one party dictatorship are anethema to the American system. The same holds true for Sharia. It is deport, or be deported—or beheaded. That may be troubling to you, but I suspect cowardice is at work. That’s okay. We’re all a little afraid, but I don’t want my daughters to have to undergo female circumcision and head to toe veiling. Do you?

Your comparison of conventional religious minorities in the west to Jews under Islam, or under Fascist Germany (a distinctly non-Western, non-Christian phenomenon) is patently absurd.

[dennisw]

Thanks much and I don’t doubt you. Then the secular Muslims must rise up and dispose of the fundamentalist psychos who they allow to plague them

That includes Shiites such as Muktar al Sadr
Sunnis such as the Al Queda/Bathist terrorists

Don’t the religious Shiites rule Basra and the South where the British are departing from?

[farmer18th]

Few Christians in Muslim countries would willingly trade places with the Jews in Nazi Germany.

Why not? You haven't seen the Islamic protests, lauding Hitler? You haven't been listening to Mahmoud's speeches?

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

Changing the subject. The question you raised is whether there had ever been a tolerant Muslim society. Someone replied giving Moorish Spain as an example, and your reply implied that the Moors were not tolerant. My reply was to that point only.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

Few Christians in Muslim countries would willingly trade places with the Jews in Nazi Germany.
"Why not?"

WHY NOT!!!

Are you taking leave of your senses? Are you a Holocaust denier?

[G8 Diplomat]

If I may jump in here...

I just thought I'd throw this out there: The following is from TheReligionofPeace.com (the title is sarcastic, if you couldn't tell: the site exposes the evils of Islam): "If our years of dialogue with hundreds of Muslims have taught us anything, it is that most Muslims (even devout ones) have only a superficial understanding of their religion. Most Muslims never made a choice to be Muslim, so (as with all religion) there are widely varying degrees of seriousness to which they may take their faith." (from http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Statement-on-Muslims.htm ... I recommend you read that)

The Koran is written in "formal" Arabic, which is very different from colloquial Arabic, and further still from the many dialects of Arabic, which are very different amongst themselves. And then of course there are the Muslim countries where they don't even speak Arabic. The point: when they recite the Koran, they recite it in the original formal Arabic, so they don't exactly know what it's saying. I read a Front Page Mag article about a guy in Bangladesh who recited the Koran in Arabic every day, not having a clue what he was saying. When he read it in his native language, he was shocked to discover what it really said, and that convinced him to leave Islam. The imams and clerics who preach the true hatred of Islam are scholars who study the Koran and who know formal Arabic. Whether or not people choose to pay much attention to them depend on the degree of seriousness with which they want to follow Islam. There was also an article here about a Muslim blogger who was disgusted by the Palestinians' murder of Jewish civilians in the library, but he wrote "They say that this filth is Islam?" He clearly does not know that this filth IS Islam. If he read the Koran and discovered what his religion is really about, he might have similar revelations to the Bangladeshi guy.

The doctrine of Islam is evil, we all know that. As TROP.com suggests, the degree of piousness to which Muslims follow it varies. Most Muslims are born into their religion, they don't chose to follow Islam. If every one of them followed Islam correctly, they would ALL be terrorists, they would ALL want shariah law, and they would ALL adhere to the restrictions of their religion. Instead, you see Iraqis going to liquor stores in Baghdad and eating bacon, you see them saying "we don't want to become another Iran," as Allegra reported, you see hatred of Islam brewing amongst Iraqi youth (another FR article about that), you see the residents of Pakistan tired of living in fear and vote the extremists out of office, you see the Iranian youth protesting against the hardline clerical regime, you see 1.5 million Turks turning out to protest an Islamist party. HOWEVER, that does not cover up for those who do interpret Islam correctly. They need some JDAMs specially delivered courtesy of the United States military.

If most Muslims knew what their religion was really about and what it really teaches, I wonder how many of them would still want to follow it. They don't need JDAMs, they need to be shown the truth about their religion and given the opportunity to leave it. If they don't want to leave it and would rather follow it correctly, then they need some JDAMs.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

Maybe we should sponsor classes in classical Arabic throughout the Muslim world (taught by non Muslims).

[G8 Diplomat]

Excellent idea. That way they can see what the Koran really says. But as I said, if they still choose to adhere to it, JDAM time.

[farmer18th]

Are you taking leave of your senses? Are you a Holocaust denier?

No, you are. If you don't think Muslims are actively pursuing Holocaust right now, you are a fool.

[farmer18th]

My reply was to that point only.

Yes, I asked for examples of enlightened, representative, minority-protecting western-style democracies that are also Muslim majorities. So far, the list includes 13th Century Moorish Spain. This exchange sounds like a candidate for a SNL sketch.

13th century Moorish Spain? Are you KIDDING me?

[LordBridey]

How about modern day Turkey?

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

f you don't think Muslims are actively pursuing Holocaust right now, you are a fool.

Where are the gas chambers ans the crematoria?

[farmer18th]

Where are the gas chambers ans the crematoria?

You've never heard of the SCUD attacks and Israelis having to put on gas masks? You haven't been listening to the president of Iran lately?

[Allegra]

Thanks much and I don’t doubt you. Then the secular Muslims must rise up and dispose of the fundamentalist psychos who they allow to plague them

That includes Shiites such as Muktar al Sadr

Sunnis such as the Al Queda/Bathist terrorists

Agreed and the majority of Iraqis agree as well. I don't know how much coverage our {shudder!} media is giving this, but over the last several months, the Awakening groups (aka Concerned Local Citizens, Sons of Iraq) have become very active in reporting any suspicious activity to the authorities and even engaging the enemy themselves. This was a large part of the huge improvements we are seeing in Anbar Province and in Baghdad

Don’t the religious Shiites rule Basra and the South where the British are departing from?

They are certainly using bully tactics in an attempt to control that area, yes. They have these self-appointed "morality police" who have caused a lot of trouble, but some people, particularly young adults, are resisting. There is an Awakening movement beginning against the Shia militias that is catching on.

Diyala Province and Mosul are still having some problems, but the coalition is very hard at work there now and have killed or captured lots of al Qaeda over the last three months or so in those areas.

Baghdad is much calmer than it used to be, but we still have the odd attack here and there. Today was a bad day for example. But we have many, many more good days now and a lot of this has been achieved with the help of the local citizens.

[pabianice]

The Ladies Auxillary of the First Baptist Church of Nashville strikes again!