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Toyota Prius proves a gas guzzler in a race with the BMW 520d
TimesOnline ^ | 3/16/08

Posted on 03/18/2008 7:59:57 AM PDT by ZGuy

The Toyota hybrid is hailed as an eco-paragon, so how does it fare against a big BMW? To find out our correspondents go on a run to Geneva.

The Prius, like the iPod, is more than a piece of clever technology. It symbolises something bigger – a responsible attitude, a healthier way of living. Toyota has sold more than a million examples of the car since launching it in 1997 and it has attracted a worldwide following led by Leonardo DiCaprio, Cameron Diaz and much of the rest of Hollywood.

It’s classified by the American government as the “most fuel-efficient car sold in the US” and this seal of official approval is reflected in a special status that the Prius and other hybrids enjoy over conventionally powered cars.

For example, you can drive a Prius in American “high occupancy vehicle lanes” – designed for vehicles carrying passengers – even if there’s nobody else in the car. In Britain the Prius has had a similar boost. You can enter the central London congestion zone without paying the usual £8-a-day charge. For road tax purposes it’s classed as an “alternative fuel vehicle” so you pay less tax than you would for a conventional car that produces the same emissions. Road tax is just £15 a year and in last Wednesday’s budget, Alistair Darling, the chancellor, renewed his commitment to preferential treatment for hybrids. Plus, if you drive a Prius as a company car it enjoys a 3% discount (until April) compared with the tax on other cars producing identical amounts of carbon dioxide.

But are transport and tax planners – here and in the US – being fair to the people who drive conventional cars? The official fuel consumption figure for the Prius – supplied by Toyota itself – is 65.7mpg in mixed motoring. That’s a claim not supported by many of the letter writers to The Sunday Times who say they get nearer to 50mpg. If our readers are right and the official figure is wrong it has important implications, not least of which is that people driving frugal diesels are getting a raw deal.

To find out we set a challenge: to drive a Prius to Geneva using motorways and town driving. The direct route is 460 miles but we drove almost 100 miles further to give the Prius the advantage of running in urban conditions where its petrol-electric drivetrain comes into its own.

We took along a conventionally powered car – a diesel BMW executive saloon – for comparison and drove both cars an identical number of miles (545).

BMW 520d: driven by Nicholas Rufford

The BMW doesn’t have the external look of a green car and you don’t get the same self-righteous glow when you are driving it. There’s no hybrid badge on the back; in fact, because it’s the entry level car of the 5-series many buyers opt for “badge delete” so they don’t show other motorists they went for the cheapest option at £27,190.

But it does have a few tricks up its sleeve to conserve fuel. Efficient Dynamics, as BMW refers to its fuel-saving technology, is a term coined by Bavarian marketing men for refinements that taken on their own are nothing spectacular but together improve fuel economy. Rather than Toyota’s big idea – a radically different system of powering a car using a petrol-electric drivetrain – BMW has sunk its research effort into lots of less radical things.

The most important of these is the new four-cylinder engine. It’s available in the 3-series but here it’s perfectly at home in the bigger 5-series saloon where it generates a surprising 177bhp. Surprising because it’s only 1995cc and it sips fuel. Combined fuel consumption is – officially – 55.4mpg and emissions are 136g/km, which puts it into tax band C. That’s respectable for its size, especially when you consider that 13 cabinet ministers are driven in cars with tax band F – the second highest bracket – and one, we don’t know who, has a band G car.

Various other features of the new BMW contribute to its frugality. It’s got better aerodynamics to reduce drag; low rolling resistance tyres; and a dashboard gauge that gives you a continuous fuel consumption readout so you know when to change gear.

So how does it drive? Well, much like any other executive saloon, actually. Its six-speed manual transmission needs quite a lot of work but if you are concerned about fuel economy then it’s a small price to pay for the extra 5mpg that it gains over the automatic version.

The 520d is not startlingly quick, but it will reach 62mph in 8.3sec. As for the claimed top speed of 144mph, I didn’t get the chance to test it to its limit but I think it would have struggled to reach that. Nonetheless, it cruised happily at the French autoroute limit (dry conditions) of 78mph towards the champagne region.

As I did so, I noted with slight satisfaction that Jason was having difficulty keeping up, so I cut my speed. Had I been really serious about saving fuel I could have also switched off the air-conditioning and the stereo but I was more concerned about making this a real-world test.

Stuck in rush-hour traffic in Reims, fuel consumption dropped to an average of about 40mpg – still not bad when you consider the size of the car. BMW has fitted a diesel particulate filter, enabling the car to meet ever more stringent European Union limits on emissions. Another feature designed to cut running costs is the brake regenerative system – similar to that in the Prius – which recovers energy from braking to recharge the battery and help power the electrical systems. To what extent this is a genuinely eco-friendly feature and how much a conscience salver is impossible to tell when you’re driving.

But you can’t argue with the end result. Approaching Switzerland I felt confident of beating Jason. The computer was telling me that, for the journey as a whole, I had averaged more than 50mpg. The test had taken us along just over 200 miles of autoroute, about 200 miles of B roads, including winding ascents and descents in Switzerland, and 100 miles of urban driving.

Before we set off, Jason and I filled our tanks to the brim. At the end of the journey, at a filling station in Geneva, we filled them again to find out how much fuel we’d used. The BMW had done the journey on 49 litres (just over two-thirds of a 70-litre tank). Jason had . . . well, I’ll let him tell his own story.

Toyota Prius: driven by Jason Dawe

The Prius is not a car you can easily get excited about, at least on a purely visual basis. But this test was not about kerb appeal, it was about pump avoidance. The Prius was designed with a straightforward goal in mind – to create a five-seat family hatchback that was as good on fuel as a 2+2 supermini. Straightforward aims are often notoriously difficult to achieve.

Toyota’s big idea was to use hybrid power. In other words, two forms of propulsion. The bulk of that power comes from a 1.5 litre petrol engine producing just 77bhp. That kind of power may be able to keep the Prius cruising along but is hardly enough to ensure decent acceleration. So added to that comes a battery-powered electric motor generating the equivalent of a further 67bhp and a thumping great 295 lb ft of torque.

There’s no need to plug the Prius into an electric socket to keep the batteries topped up as this is done every time the car brakes, and there is trickle charging by the petrol engine while driving normally. The result of lumping together these two sources of power is a car that can reach 62mph from standstill in less than 11sec and reach 106mph flat out, hardly dragstrip quick and slower than the BMW, but still respectable.

Toyota was obsessive about saving weight in the Prius; at just 2,921lb it is 573lb lighter than the BMW 520d, surely a factor that will pay dividends at the pumps.

Clever power and a light kerb weight stand the Prius in good stead but it’s the car’s incredibly low drag coefficient that may just tip the scales in my favour when it comes to long motorway stretches at higher speeds. As slippery as a campaign manager discussing political donations, the Prius should take less energy than the BMW to maintain a constant cruising speed.

No sooner had we left the offices of The Sunday Times in London than my eyes locked limpet-like on the trip computer readout that tells you how many mpg you are achieving. This was to become my obsession over the next 545 miles as I battled to nudge the Prius into performing somewhere close to Toyota’s claim of 65mpg-plus motoring.

By the time we reached the Channel tunnel the display revealed that I had averaged 55mpg. Hopefully things would improve on the long, uninterrupted roads in France. They didn’t – despite the fact that I didn’t use the air-conditioning and avoided turning on the stereo in an effort to conserve power.

To break the boredom of constantly looking at the trip computer I pressed the throttle into the carpet for a few seconds, but seeing the fuel consumption suddenly dip to less than 10mpg I backed off. When we stopped in Reims neither Nick nor I was willing to declare our average fuel economy figures. I interpreted his reticence as a sign of my upcoming victory.

The next day it became clear my Prius did not like motorways, at least not at 75mph into a headwind. My trip meter informed me I was now averaging about 45mpg; the Prius was not going to make it to Geneva on just one tank.

I took the precaution of buying a 10-litre can and filling it with petrol. Sure enough, the dashboard soon informed me the fuel tank was empty, the petrol engine stopped and for two surreal miles I coasted along on battery power. Only when I approached a long steep uphill stretch did I finally drift to a halt. As I filled the tank I consoled myself with my last chocolate bar.

Coasting down the mountain into Geneva my Prius averaged 99.9mpg for a full 10 minutes. It was the highlight of my journey and improved my overall average fuel economy by a full 2mpg. But it was not enough. For all my defensive driving, slippery bodywork and hybrid technology, my average fuel consumption was 48.1mpg. I’d lost to a Beemer and I was disappointed; I had never driven so slowly or carefully for so long in my life. I’m considering buying a V8 Range Rover and opening my own oil well in protest.

Vital Statistics

Model BMW 520d SE
Engine 1995cc, four cylinders
Power 177bhp @ 4000rpm
Torque 258 lb ft @ 1750rpm
Transmission Six-speed manual
Official fuel/CO2 55.4mpg / 136g/km
Performance 0-62mph: 8.3sec
Top speed 144mph
Road tax band C (£115)
Price £27,190
Fuel used on test 10.84 gallons (50.3mpg)
Fuel cost £54.19 (diesel)

Model Toyota Prius T Spirit
Engine 1497cc, four cylinders
Electric motor 50kW/67bhp
Power 77bhp @ 5000rpm
Torque 295 lb ft (motor) 85 lb ft (engine)
Transmission CVT automatic
Official fuel/CO2 65.7mpg / 104g/km
Performance 0-62mph: 10.9sec
Top speed 106mph
Road tax band B (£15, alternative fuel)
Price £20,677
Fuel used on test 11.34 gallons (48.1mpg)
Fuel cost £54.64 (petrol)


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: automakers; automotive; bmw; diesel; energy; hybrid; toyota
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1 posted on 03/18/2008 7:59:59 AM PDT by ZGuy
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To: Red Badger

HA HA ping


2 posted on 03/18/2008 8:02:33 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: ZGuy

a diesel BMW is a conventionally powered vehicle? Do they even sell diesels here? I don’t think so.


3 posted on 03/18/2008 8:04:36 AM PDT by babble-on
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To: ZGuy
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Prius loses to a Beemer in a MPG race.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

4 posted on 03/18/2008 8:07:32 AM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: babble-on

Because the evironazis won’t let them into our country.


5 posted on 03/18/2008 8:08:50 AM PDT by stevio (Crunchy Con - God, guns, guts, and organically grown crunchy nuts.)
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To: ZGuy

“Don’t believe the hype.”
Chuck D, Public Enemy


6 posted on 03/18/2008 8:08:59 AM PDT by sono (The Future Ain't What It Used To Be - Yogi Berra)
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To: stevio

so there are no diesels marketed here? I don’t think that’s right either. Getting confused


7 posted on 03/18/2008 8:09:59 AM PDT by babble-on
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To: babble-on

This is a UK article, but I believe they are going to start selling diesel X6s here in the States later in the year.


8 posted on 03/18/2008 8:10:04 AM PDT by mnehring (The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. - Ayn Rand)
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To: Tijeras_Slim

But you won’t get that “smug, self righteous happy” feeling driving the BMW and lauds of jealous approval from your eco friends..........


9 posted on 03/18/2008 8:10:43 AM PDT by Red Badger ( We don't have science, but we do have consensus.......)
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To: ZGuy

Prius == Eco Bling


10 posted on 03/18/2008 8:11:49 AM PDT by the_devils_advocate_666
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To: ZGuy

They proved what’s already known: Prius is best in congested stop and go stuff where it’s putting energy back into the battery and it’s mediocre at long sustained drives.

No matter how you cut it a 50mpg conventional car is very nice. This is sold where in the U.S.? Not that I want to buy a Euro import at these exchange rates :)


11 posted on 03/18/2008 8:13:49 AM PDT by No.6 (www.fourthfightergroup.com)
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To: No.6

^ Oh, it’s a diesel. No wonder.


12 posted on 03/18/2008 8:14:43 AM PDT by No.6 (www.fourthfightergroup.com)
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To: babble-on

Diesels have been getting 50+MPG for decades....

Hybrids are a waste of money and a dead technology. They are not green, in fact they cause more damage to the environment over their lifetime than do traditional cars with bad fuel economy.

If you want good fuel economy just buy a turbo deisel injection engined vehicle. Let the libs have their overpriced tin cans.


13 posted on 03/18/2008 8:15:04 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: babble-on

Diesels have been getting 50+MPG for decades....

Hybrids are a waste of money and a dead technology. They are not green, in fact they cause more damage to the environment over their lifetime than do traditional cars with bad fuel economy.

If you want good fuel economy just buy a turbo deisel injection engined vehicle. Let the libs have their overpriced tin cans.


14 posted on 03/18/2008 8:15:05 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: ZGuy
Another feature designed to cut running costs is the brake regenerative system – similar to that in the Prius – which recovers energy from braking to recharge the battery and help power the electrical systems. To what extent this is a genuinely eco-friendly feature and how much a conscience salver is impossible to tell when you’re driving.

How odd. What, they don't have an engine-driven alternator on this model?

15 posted on 03/18/2008 8:15:45 AM PDT by Charles Martel (The Tree of Liberty thirsts.)
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To: Just another Joe

MPG does not even begin to count the real environmental costs of the Prius compared to conventionally powered cars. The costs and environmental impact of manufacturing the car especially the battery and battery disposal make the Prius a loser when accounting for total cost of ownership and total environmental impact. The green movement is about control not efficient resource usage and environmental impacts. The green movement is myopic, essentially ignoring fixed costs and inconvenient environmental impacts.

The illogic but power of the green movement is evident in the recycling craze. Recycling as practiced by many cities is a big cost and environmental loser. If pressed, the greenies will even admit. However, the greenies still insist on recycling boondoggles because of some unnamed future impact and future development of markets for recycled material.


16 posted on 03/18/2008 8:15:48 AM PDT by businessprofessor
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To: stevio

I also wonder if all those “emissions” restrictions, especially in California, create a reduced fuel mileage ratio.

Personally, I question giving the “Smug-Mobile” permission (in California with purchased permit) to drive in the HOV lane. As I’ve said before, what is gained by taking the “Less-Polluting” car out of gridlock?


17 posted on 03/18/2008 8:16:10 AM PDT by Right Cal Gal (Abraham Lincoln would have let Berkeley leave the Union without a fight)
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To: ZGuy; Gabz; SheLion
The Prius, like the iPod, is more than a piece of clever technology. It symbolises something bigger – a responsible attitude, a healthier way of living.

  The image “http://modculture.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/cigarett_ipod.jpg” cannot be displayed, because it contains errors.

OK, wtf? 

 

18 posted on 03/18/2008 8:18:05 AM PDT by martin_fierro (I'M NOT DEAD YET!)
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To: ZGuy

Have you seen the price of Diesel fuel lately???

....Staggering.


19 posted on 03/18/2008 8:18:30 AM PDT by Vaquero (" an armed society is a polite society" Heinlein "MOLON LABE!" Leonidas of Sparta)
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To: mnehrling

With few diesel cars being sold in the US today, and diesel already at $4 a gallon, I can only imagine how high the price would go if suddenly there was a flood of such cars being sold in America.


20 posted on 03/18/2008 8:20:09 AM PDT by Phantom Lord (Fall on to your knees for the Phantom Lord)
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To: ZGuy

As Jeff Dunham and ‘Walter’ say

Prius: nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnngaaaaaaaaaay


21 posted on 03/18/2008 8:21:00 AM PDT by Conan the Librarian (The Best in Life is to crush my enemies, see them driven before me, and the Dewey Decimal System)
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To: ZGuy
What was the charge level on the Prius's battery at the beginning and the end? How much fuel does it take to go from a discharged battery to a fully charged battery?

I don't know if it enough to matter, but the battery serves as the equivalent of a secondary fuel tank, so the test results will change if you are filling it up from your primary tank during the trip, or if you start with it full and are discharging it during the trip.

22 posted on 03/18/2008 8:22:11 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Rattenschadenfreude: joy at a Democrat's pain, especially Hillary's pain caused by Obama.)
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To: HamiltonJay
I agree that hybrids are not the panacea that some people believe. Where are the hybrids which use small diesel engines, I wonder? Seems like the ideal combination for both fuel efficiency and acceleration.

You're right about diesel fuel economy, but in the past only small cars like VW Jettas could nudge past 50 mpg. A 5-Series BMW matching that *is* impressive.

23 posted on 03/18/2008 8:22:17 AM PDT by Charles Martel (The Tree of Liberty thirsts.)
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To: ZGuy

24 posted on 03/18/2008 8:23:30 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic (feh)
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To: babble-on

Soon. They had to come into compliance with new diesel emmission laws in the US. Mercedes calls their version BlueTec. More manufacturers should be coming out with their diesel engines soon.

Mercedes-Benz Preps a Trio of 50-State Diesel SUVs
By Matthew Phenix March 17, 2008 | 12:06:25 PMCategories: Diesel, New Vehicles
In the biggest clean-diesel push by a European automaker yet, Mercedes-Benz is set to roll out three Bluetec sport-utility vehicles, joining the E320 Bluetec sedan in showrooms. The 2009 GL320, ML320, and R320 Bluetec models (pictured here, left to right), supplant the older-tech CDI diesel models in the Mercedes range. They employ a 3.0-liter V-6 with a variable nozzle turbocharger and common-rail direct injection, producing 208 horsepower and 400 pound-feet of torque, and matched to a seven-speed manu-matic transmission.

The company is claiming the diesels will improve fuel economy by 20 to 30 percent, and return a cruising range of up to 600 miles. As for performance, we enjoyed a brief but informative drive in the largest of the three, the GL320, not to mention an extended visit with the E320 Bluetec, we can say that the 3.0-liter engine is startlingly quiet and truly V-8-like in its pulling power (it has more torque than the top-drawer GL550’s 5.5-liter gasoline V-8).

Although the E320 Bluetec brought to market the first stages of Mercedes’ clean-diesel technology — including a particulate filter and an oxidation catalytic converter — these new vehicles introduce AdBlue urea-injection to further mitigate noxious nitrogen oxides. Unlike the outgoing CDI models, which aren’t for sale in California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, or Vermont, the new Bluetec diesels are 50-state-legal. They reach showrooms this

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/03/we-drive-the-20.html


25 posted on 03/18/2008 8:23:44 AM PDT by saganite
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To: ZGuy
I’m considering buying a V8 Range Rover and opening my own oil well in protest.

ROFL!!!!

26 posted on 03/18/2008 8:23:51 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Charles Martel
"How odd. What, they don't have an engine-driven alternator on this model?"

I would say that they do.

But since alternators generate electricity only when needed, any power that you recover from regenerative braking would reduce the amount of time the alternator needs to use engine power for charging the electrical system.

27 posted on 03/18/2008 8:25:15 AM PDT by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: ZGuy
hehe...
28 posted on 03/18/2008 8:25:57 AM PDT by mowowie
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To: ZGuy

BMW has done some work on steam powered hybrids as well. The steam engine can add 15% to the fuel economy.


29 posted on 03/18/2008 8:26:51 AM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: Vaquero

Diesel was $3.95 a gallon the last time I looked.


30 posted on 03/18/2008 8:27:01 AM PDT by listenhillary (You watch, Hillary will challenge McCain for the R nomination)
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To: babble-on

I’m not totally sure what the requirements are for diesel powered vehicles here. I think it has something to do with the vehicle weight. The reason 3/4 ton trucks traditionally have them but 1/2 tons don’t. VW has some cars here and so does Mercedes, but Toyota has had diesel powered pick-ups for decades in other countries and not here.


31 posted on 03/18/2008 8:27:40 AM PDT by stevio (Crunchy Con - God, guns, guts, and organically grown crunchy nuts.)
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To: ZGuy
Can you say “stick your tongue out” at those pompous hybrid owners????
32 posted on 03/18/2008 8:28:34 AM PDT by TheBattman (LORD God, please give us a Christian Patriot with a backbone for President in 08, Amen.)
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To: HamiltonJay

You can say that again!


33 posted on 03/18/2008 8:30:07 AM PDT by TheBattman (LORD God, please give us a Christian Patriot with a backbone for President in 08, Amen.)
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To: ZGuy

Also note the 100 horsepower advantage for the BMW.


34 posted on 03/18/2008 8:31:23 AM PDT by Richard Kimball (Sure, they'd love to kill me, as long as they can do it without admitting I exist)
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To: Phantom Lord

What I don’t get about diesel fuel prices - Just a month ago, diesel was just over 20 cents per gallon higher than regular unleaded (at least around here).

When crude prices jumped to records, and regular unleaded started climbing by 5 cents or so per day, diesel jumped 20 cents per day. Now the differential is 60 cents. I don’t get it. Diesel demand didn’t change that fast.


35 posted on 03/18/2008 8:32:01 AM PDT by TheBattman (LORD God, please give us a Christian Patriot with a backbone for President in 08, Amen.)
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To: Tijeras_Slim


AAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!
36 posted on 03/18/2008 8:32:28 AM PDT by Kozak (Anti Shahada: There is no god named Allah, and Muhammed is a false prophet)
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To: ZGuy

Very well written entertaining story.


37 posted on 03/18/2008 8:33:54 AM PDT by Huck (Support OBAMA in 08--He's a better choice than McCain! Ask any conservative!)
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To: saganite

But the Europeans have been been burning ultra-low sulfur diesel for years - and have had regulations on emissions as strict or more so for years.... The problem is new certifications required in this country (even though the European standards meet or exceed all the US standards.... gotta make them pay for recertification...).


38 posted on 03/18/2008 8:34:03 AM PDT by TheBattman (LORD God, please give us a Christian Patriot with a backbone for President in 08, Amen.)
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To: Charles Martel

That would help, but one of the design goals of the hybrid is to alow nearly invisible transition from electric to gas power.

Diesels don’t like to gat cold and then start up quickly.


39 posted on 03/18/2008 8:36:36 AM PDT by Palmetto
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To: TheBattman

“Can you say “stick your tongue out” at those pompous hybrid owners????”

I don’t own one, but a number of Freepers have hybrids. Most of them seem to like them. Not every hybrid owner is pompous, just as not every BMW owner is pompous — although some certainly are. Or have you forgotten that BMW is one of those “prestige” brands?


40 posted on 03/18/2008 8:37:18 AM PDT by gracesdad
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To: ZGuy

In U.S. units, this is 41.88 mpg for the BMW and 40.05 mpg for the Prius.


41 posted on 03/18/2008 8:38:20 AM PDT by B Knotts (Calvin Coolidge Republican)
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To: gracesdad

Whats the difference between a porcupine and a BMW?


42 posted on 03/18/2008 8:41:12 AM PDT by dashing doofus (Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber)
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To: ZGuy
Imagine that.

BMW driven more-or-less normally, beats a Pious driven incredibly carefully with an eye on saving gas.

Wonder how all of the Hybrid owners will rationalize this away.

43 posted on 03/18/2008 8:41:15 AM PDT by wbill
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To: Vince Ferrer
BMW has done some work on steam powered hybrids as well

Can you provide a link with some more info? Thanks

44 posted on 03/18/2008 8:41:35 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: gracesdad

that is exactly why I said “pompous” hybrid owners. Those hybrid owners who simply like it..but don’t try to rub their “superiority” in folk’s faces are not pompous...


45 posted on 03/18/2008 8:43:10 AM PDT by TheBattman (LORD God, please give us a Christian Patriot with a backbone for President in 08, Amen.)
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To: TheBattman
But the Europeans have been been burning ultra-low sulfur diesel for years

Not to the new US standard. They were 50 ppm, we are now less than a 1/3 of that at 15 ppm. Quite a significant jump.

46 posted on 03/18/2008 8:43:33 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: B Knotts
In U.S. units, this is 41.88 mpg for the BMW and 40.05 mpg for the Prius.

And my two year old Corolla gets 35mpg (mixed conditions), and I'm not particularly careful about fuel efficient driving.

47 posted on 03/18/2008 8:43:46 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Tijeras_Slim; Red Badger; ZGuy
WTF are OUR Diesels? Blame it on GW. There is, believe it or not, still some variation between state emission requirements, with some state vehemently opposed to Diesels because of outright ignorance over the latest tech available in Europe and Japan.

The EU very cleverly made its gasoline-powered vehicle emission standards identical to those of California, but the Diesel thing is a hodge-podge. To me it is unconscionable that different states have different standards. Why have an EPA or a DOT if I can't buy what I want in any state? One other thing this article inadvertently points out: the shocking (shocking, I tell you) demand for off-the line acceleration that is corrupting our fleet economy averages. In the olden days, 0-60 in 10 seconds was considered the Gold Standard of acceleration. Now every dumb little KIA/Civic/Corolla can beat that.

The author clearly thinks 8secs to 60 is an eternity! My question: "WHY?" If every American car where to have a lower ratio rear,(say 2.7-1, with a higher ratio overdrive top, say .6-1, we would suddenly have much better highway mileage, even if more leisurely acceleration.

Why this acceleration mania? Some of the greatest sports cars of the 1960s took a whole 12 seconds to hit 60 ... nothing wrong with that!

48 posted on 03/18/2008 8:43:53 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk (Nobama08. Get me a general for President and Steele or Blackwell for VP.)
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To: ZGuy

I got 43.1 mpg in my Honda Fit last week. Not hybrid.


49 posted on 03/18/2008 8:45:24 AM PDT by Intimidator (Its not unilateral,just try saying you're a Progressive Dem in your typical Evangelical chur)
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To: dashing doofus

“Whats the difference between a porcupine and a BMW?”

With the porcupine, the pricks are on the outside?


50 posted on 03/18/2008 8:46:02 AM PDT by gracesdad
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