Posted on 03/30/2008 12:31:03 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
CORPUS CHRISTI — Nueces County Republican Chairman Mike Bertuzzi survived a potential convention takeover.
At the group's county convention Saturday, a man began causing a scene while committees were making reports. Republican county conventions nominate delegates for the state convention based upon the ratio decided in the March 4 primaries.
"We were able to stop that and take care of business," Bertuzzi said. "I don't know what their purpose was. They claim they were Ron Paul supporters. I can't imagine Ron Paul would put people up to this."
Paul, a U.S. representative from Texas and presidential candidate, is far behind presumptive nominee Sen. John McCain. The scene at the Nueces County convention appeared to be part of a larger effort by Paul supporters to gain delegates to the Republican National Convention. The Kansas City Star reported his supporters took over a county convention there March 17 and elected 170 of 187 delegates.
Bertuzzi, who chaired the meeting, said he did not recognize the group to speak and some members were escorted out by the sergeant at arms. Then about 40 members of the faction convened in another room in what's known as a "rump convention."
Rump conventions are a separate meeting conducted by a group that feels it has been disenfranchised. Participants can form their own committees and elect their own delegates, then send a report to the state party, which then decides which convention to recognize from that county.
Bertuzzi said he knew about the potential takeover attempt and how to handle it. A successful takeover of a Nueces County convention in 1988 split the party for years, he said.
"There was no way when I'm chairman that I'm going to let that happen," he said.
About 200 people stayed in the original convention, and 184 were elected to state. Bertuzzi said he expects the other faction to challenge his delegate status at the state convention.
Drusilla Knight-Villarreal, who organized this convention, was county chairwoman during the 1988 takeover. She described the scene Saturday as chaotic.
"I've never seen anything like it," she said. "And I've been involved my entire life."
There was a large group of Ron Paul supporters who tried to disrupt the convention by challenging the credentials of the chair of the Nueces County Republican Party and calling for a points of order during the reading of a report by the credentials committee. The chair ran the convention strictly by Roberts Rules of Order and had the Sergeant at Arms, the Nueces County Sherrif Jim Kaelin evict one of them for being out of order. Immediately about 50 of them left to form their own rump convention. There was nothing spontaneous about it. The whole confrontation was designed so they could walk out en mass. They named their own list of delegates and alternates to the state convention and had a list of resoltions they want to forward to the state convetion. I'm sure they will try to challenge the credentials of the delegates from the official Nueces County Republican Party to the state convention, but they will fail.
Is Ron Paul still running for President?
I am suppose to attend my County Convention next month,I see no reason to go,our candidate has been selected,such as he is.
They’re fighting over a dead body.
Equating the Paulistas with the word “rump” is appropriate.
The ‘Paulians’ disrupted our district caucus here in Wisconsin by attempting to confuse, amend, and oppose almost every resolution. Their disruptive actions appeared to be both coordinated and premeditated and accomplished nothing except to waste everyone’s time and build lasting resentments toward them and their causes.
No, but his organization is trying to take over Repulican party organizations at the grass roots level. A lot of these people have never been involved with the Nueces County Republican Party, but insisted on their people leading the county delegation to the state convention and getting lots of the appointments to the delegate list. Quite a few of the leaders of the Nueces County Repubican Party remember 20 years ago when a bunch of Pat Robertson supporters successfully took control of the county convention and it damaged the party for 20 years.
Regardless of who gets seated at the national GOP convention, party rules that have the force of state law dictate that the delegates vote according to how the congressional districts voted. Every single congressional district gave John McCain an absolute majority. This means McCain won all the delegates under the rules making delegate allocation "winner-take-all for a candidate getting an absolute majority of the CD primary vote. All of the statewide at large delegates also must vote for McCain, because he won an absolute majority in the statewide primary vote.
Interesting, Thank you!
Towards the end of the convention several delegates had questions about what went on. The chair informed us that in 1988, the Pat Robinson supporters took over the convention, and the party organization held the rump convention. It has hurt the party since that time, and they didn't want a repeat of 1988.
Has Paul ever officially pulled out of the Presidential Primary race? I can’t remember reading where he did other than he redirected his focus to the CD race. All said I am not surprised by Paul’s supporters.
Have you heard anything as to how the Democratic cty/sen. conventions went?... I’ve seen bits and pieces in the papers but nothing giving a summary statewide....
EVERYONE I know here in South Texas is FOR Ron Paul. My kids live in Austin and every sign was for Ron Paul. I do not know ANYONE who is FOR Hillary or Obambam or McPain. Ron Paul was the ONLY candidate who wanted to get back to the Constitution. That is why everyone fears him.
NOT EVERYONE you know.
PaleoPaulie got 4.5% of the primary vote. You need a wider circle of friends.
You must not know very many people in South Texas then. I can tell that and I've never even been there.
And I suppose the fact that Dr. Paul crushed his RINO primary opponent escaped your attention, too.
L
For his seat in Congress not for President. McCain still beat Ron Paul with an absolute majority in Ron Paul's congressional district.
He got 2 whole votes in our precinct.
Tell Ron Paul that campaign signs in Texas must be removed within 10 days after the election.
Here’s a blip out of the Chronicle regarding the democrats and their spat..... I hope they continue to fight and cause confrontations like the Paulistas....
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/politics/5659260.html
Here is the apportionment so far of presidential caucus delegates to the Texas Democratic state convention based on reports from Saturday’s county and senate district conventions. A total of about 7,300 delegates were expected to be selected in this stage of the caucus process, according to the Texas Democratic Party. Results are from 123 of about 280 conventions.
• Clinton: 933, or 50 percent*
• Obama: 937, or 50 percent*
*Results are not official
These two statements, as presented, contradict each other. Under Robert, the chair cannot unilaterally evict someone who has the right to be there.
The Paul wackos caused problems in Missouri also. While I could support some of Ron Paul’s ideas, I loathe his supporters. They are the smartest people in any room, just ask them.
Same thing happened in Galveston County GOP convention too. Quick perceptive Republican activism thwarted the Paulbots too.
I suspect that this is happening all over the country. The State conventions are next. Keep a watchful eye for similar activities and note it to Party leadership.
Nuts belong in cans, not running state and local Republican parties.
Conservatism? Maybe?
Excuse me, but I was there. The Chairman of the Credentials Committe had the floor and was reciting the report of that committee. The disruptor was trying to prevent that report from being heard. Standing up and/or yelling "point of order" does not give one the floor.
“ONLY candidate who wanted to get back to the Constitution. That is why everyone fears him.”
No it isn’t. And bulldogging your way into caucuses and state level conventions IS NOT kosher and is defying the will of the MAJORITY of voters. I’m sure Ron Paul wouldn’t approve.
Paleo Conservatice,
You must not be well versed in Robert’s Rules. A “Point of Order” notifies the speaker that an infraction of the rules has taken place and can interrupt anyone speaking, does not need a second and does not need a vote. The Chairman is then required to address the infraction / the person who called for “Point of Order”.
Well they sure showed their reverence for the constitution by not abiding by the existing party rules this weekend. They claim to revere the constitution but show no respect for anyone or anything else. Why should a bunch of people who have never previously participated in party organization be given preferential treatement compared with those who have been active for years doing all sorts of tasks for the party. I regularly go to Nuces County Republican Club meetings, and I have never seen any of Ron Paul people at any of these monthly meetings.
Many of them have never been to a county convention before, and they weren't familiar with all the rules. They tried to imply that the county Chair stacked the delegations with people who never showed up to the caucuses, but it was never required to go to the caucuses. All that was required was voting in the Republican primary and informing the election judges or party officials about one's desire to be a delegate. I don't think any precinct was restricted by the 15:1 quotas. There were enough available delegate positions in my precinct to allow every single person attending the county caucus plus everyone else who expressed an interest to be a delegate if he or she wanted. Of the 15 caucus attendees and maybe three other persons expressing an interest, only 8 showed up at the county convention. There were many precints with just one delegate. I think the precincts with the most delegates showing up had 14 or 15.
While you are correct that attendance at a precinct convention is not required to become a delegate to the county convention, the Rules of the Republican Party and the Texas Election Code clearly state that delegates elected to the county convention must be approved by a majority vote AT the precinct convention.
The point of order was being called for because delegates were added to the precinct delegate lists that were NOT approved by a MAJORITY at the precinct convention.
So, who is REALLY the one not abiding by the existing party rules?
“All that was required was voting in the Republican primary and informing the election judges or party officials about one’s desire to be a delegate.”
Wrong again, Paleo. Get your facts straight. To become a delegate at the precinct convention one needed to have voted in the primary election and either attended the precinct convention or have submitted their name to be ELECTED as a delegate at the precinct convention. Once the precinct convention adjourns NO one may be added as delegates.
Texas Election Code 174.021
“The delegates to a political party’s county conventions held under this chapter shall be selected in accordance with party rules AT precinct conventions held as provided by this subchapter.”
Any lawyer could tell you that “AT” is the key word here. Once this precinct conventions were over (adjourned) NO ONE has the authority to add delegates.
What I meant to say (it was pretty late when I wrote the post to which you were responding) was that the names were submitted to the caucus for approval. In the precinct caucus I attended, there were enough available delegate posistions to allow everyone attending the caucus to be a delegate, and every one of us signed up. There were also a few people who voted in the primary who couldn’t attend the caucus but were interested in being delegates. They gave their names to either election judges or party official who then forwarded them to the precinct caucuses where they were acted upon. My precinct had more than enough available spots for delegates, so everyone who wanted to be a delegate was approved. Apparently there were some precints where the people running the caucuses were not aware that attendance at the caucuses was not required to be a delegate and didn’t act on any of the names forwared by the election judges to the caucuses.
In my precinct, over 10 people showed up who did not attend our precinct convention. We never added them to the list of delegates for the county convention and we never voted on them to become delegates to the county convention. I am glad to hear that everything was done according to the rules in your precinct. It, however, was not the case in my precinct.
I was there too and there were over 10 people in my precinct who were not at our precinct convention, were not added to the list of delegates to the county convention and were not voted on to attend the county convention. This IS a violation of election code.
This happened in Travis County too.
They tried and failed to take over SD-14 and tried and succeeded in SD-25.
http://travismonitor.blogspot.com/2008/03/another-report-sd-14-convention.htm
There’s just a blank page on the blog you linked. Was it some Paulista bragging about taking over a convention?
Hope these links work.
Travis Monitor:
http://travismonitor.blogspot.com/
Liveblog on SD-14:
http://travismonitor.blogspot.com/2008/03/sd-14-convention-live-blog.html
Another report on the SD-14 attempted takeover:
http://travismonitor.blogspot.com/2008/03/another-report-sd-14-convention.html
Other
takeover reports:
http://travismonitor.blogspot.com/2008/03/not-just-in-travis-ron-paul-convention.html
I’m in Hays County and I think that is part of SD 25. They did not win in Hays.
The 1st vote was to take over the county chair, that went to voice, standing and then a ballot vote. I would have sworn they would have won. They lost that by 40 votes. Thank God for the good ones who showed up. And Stayed.
Surprisingly they didn’t get too tough on the Delegates but there were several ballot votes on the resolutions. They lost most biggies but we killed 2 resolutions, one very important to them (declare war before going to war) and the other minor to both sides in the grand scheme of things. .. (limit the increase of the budget to increase of population + inflation).
but then we DID have 2 that were unanimous, oppose the Obama Global proverty act and
no matter what happens in CD vs Heller Texas should protect our 2nd amendment rights.
It was certainly not boring.
Normally our convention lasts 4 hours. This year it went 6 1/2 hours. I hear Travis county went 12 hours. anyone have details about Travis?
I’m in Hays County and I think that is part of SD 25. They did not win in Hays.
The 1st vote was to take over the county chair, that went to voice, standing and then a ballot vote. I would have sworn they would have won. They lost that by 40 votes. Thank God for the good ones who showed up. And Stayed.
Surprisingly they didn’t get too tough on the Delegates but there were several ballot votes on the resolutions. They lost most biggies but we killed 2 resolutions, one very important to them (declare war before going to war) and the other minor to both sides in the grand scheme of things. .. (limit the increase of the budget to increase of population + inflation).
but then we DID have 2 that were unanimous, oppose the Obama Global proverty act and
no matter what happens in CD vs Heller Texas should protect our 2nd amendment rights.
It was certainly not boring.
Normally our convention lasts 4 hours. This year it went 6 1/2 hours. I hear Travis county went 12 hours. anyone have details about Travis?
More on the Travis SD-14 convention is at Travis Monitor, just posted the links ... two live-blog reports.
It went 13 hours. I was there for the first 8 hours and had to go home. Once the ‘renegades’ lost on a test vote on changing the rules, the ‘regulars’ were able to run the convention. But it dragged on. Egads, I couldnt stay until the bitter end.
Travis Monitor:
http://travismonitor.blogspot.com/
Liveblog on SD-14:
http://travismonitor.blogspot.com/2008/03/sd-14-convention-live-blog.html
Another report on the SD-14 attempted takeover:
http://travismonitor.blogspot.com/2008/03/another-report-sd-14-convention.html
Other
takeover reports:
http://travismonitor.blogspot.com/2008/03/not-just-in-travis-ron-paul-convention.html
Nobody is challenging your presence, nor your version of events. But, based on your version of events, the chairman was clearly in the wrong. He is required to recognize the member raising a point of order and is NOT permitted to unilaterally eject a member. The fiasco was created due to poor presiding and could have easily been avoided.
..And the credentials committee said: “let there be delegates,
and behold there were delegates, and they said it was “all good”
and it was the evening and the morning of tyranny.
Since new pieces of mis-information continue to appear,
I think it is important to open the windows to let some fresh air of truth
take away the stench produced by propaganda.
Today the Caller Times Reports:
“Texas Republican Party rules state that a delegate to the county convention does not have to attend the precinct convention. The credentials committee can add delegates of its choosing, as long as they voted in the primary, said Joel Yowell, convention parliamentarian who has served on state rules committees.”
http://www.caller.com/news/2008/apr/01/rump-group-members-protest/
It would have been so great if this reporter had asked the convention parliamentarian: which rule gives the credentials committee the power to “add delegates of its choosing”?.
According to the rules of the Party, delegates are chosen at the precinct convention, where their eligibility is first established and then voted upon. It is true you do not need to attend the precinct convention, but your name and eligibility must be first established by the precinct convention and voted upon so that you can become a duly elected delegate. (see rules 21 for the precinct convention.)
There is no other mechanism to select delegates. The credentials committe has not been given any power to add delegates in violation of rule 21. (http://www.parkergop.org/1998%20Texas%20Rules.htm) Their job is to assess challenges against delegates, not to create them out of thin air. If the credentials committee could “add delegates of their own choosing” there would be no need for a precinct convention, in fact there would be no need for primaries either as such “committees” would have the power of divine appointment to bypass the democratic process.
But even if the credentials committe had been given such almighty powers, the chair is still bound to follow parliamentary rules and I guess, the good parliamentarian, if he retains any degree of conscience, must be having trouble sleeping at night.
Behold Rule 6:
“6. b. At any convention, a motion to move the previous question or to close nomination concerning the election of delegates and alternates shall not be in order until there has been reasonable opportunity for additional nominations, debate and/or amendment.”
But instead the caller times “informs” us : that the chair is “within his rights as chairman to decide whom to recognize.”
Again, it would have been so good if the caller times reporter would have enlighten us as to where in the world these almighty powers had been bestowed upon
the chair, to become the sole arbiter of freedom of speech ignoring Party Rules, the Law of the state and parliamentary laws of due process for the assembly.
Where does he got the divine right and omniscient knowledge to rule against points of order without hearing them?
The majority of the assembly had no idea of what was going on thanks to the chair.
They were deprived of their right to know the truth so that the manipulation can go on undisturbed.
(BTW this is the first convention in my life where in a floor sitting hundreds of people there was no means of amplification for the floor. In other words, there was nothing democratic going on that day.)
I was never told that the Republican party acted upon the same principles ruling the courts of a medieval absolute monarchy.
But I guess now we know better. But as long as I have a voice and a choice between freedom and tyranny, I know where my choice will stand.
I will not bother you further, these are only some of the most obvious rules broken that morning, and the subsequent window dressing of the caller times.
There are many other rules and procedures trampled upon previous to the convention and are thoroughly documented, in the challenge against the chair which the credentials committee conveniently dismissed with its fiat and unbounded power, but you will not read any of that in the Caller Times.
Again feel free to share this information with anyone you think may profit from it.
Truth is the best defence against tyranny, because it is the one thing which darkness can never overcome.
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