Melbourne eatery hails leader of Nazi-allied Croatia

Jerusalem Post ^ | 4-17-08 | ETGAR LEFKOVITS

[Diocletian]

Nonsense. Josef Frank was not a Jew-hater and the HSP of his time (as well as of Alexander Horvat's time) had many Jews in its ranks. As for the Ustashi, several Jews were prominent members, amongst them Vlado Singer and Zeljko Springer, both of whom were with the Ustashi in exile in Italy.

Pavelic's wife was from a Jewish family, while others like Mirko Puk and Ivan Orsanic (both Ustashi ministers) were married to Jewish women (non-converts). Thousands of Jews in NDH were given "honorary Aryan" status so that they could avoid deportation to Auschwitz, but most could not be saved due to extreme German pressure.

As for Mladen Schwartz, he has no Croatian ancestry in him whatsoever, and was born in Belgrade. A complete and total buffoon, similar to Vojislav Seselj.

[Diocletian]

What “Ustashe” won?

[Diocletian]

NATO didn’t dismember Yugoslavia, squid. As for Croatia and the EU, that is our choice and not yours.

[Bokababe]

"As for Mladen Schwartz, he has no Croatian ancestry in him whatsoever, and was born in Belgrade."

No. That's an allegation, not a fact. Mladen Schwartz, born in Zagreb, 1947

Thousands of Jews in NDH were given "honorary Aryan" status so that they could avoid deportation to Auschwitz, but most could not be saved due to extreme German pressure.

From The Encyclopedia of the Holocaust", Vad Yashem, 1990, Pg 323 & 325

Anti-Jewish legislation. A few days after taking control, the Ustaša enacted anti-Jewish legislation, most of it based on the precedents set in the Third Reich, the GENERALGOUVERNEMENT, and SLOVAKIA. It included racial statutes on the model of the NUREMBERG LAWS, which defined who was a Jew and stripped the Jews of their civil rights. But there was an innovation in these laws – a paragraph empowering the head of state to bestow the title of “Honorary Aryan” – which provided an opportunity for corrupt practices. Most of the legislation dealt with economic affairs: Aryan trustees" were appointed to take over Jewish businesses; Jewish factories, enterprises, and real property were “nationalized”; Jewish civil servants were dismissed; and Jewish professionals (lawyers, doctors, veterinarians, and so on) were prohibited from dealing with non-Jewish clients. Collective fines, which had to be paid in gold or its equivalent, were imposed on the Jewish communities. Overnight, a pseudolegal expropriation drive was launched, which before long turned into an unbridled countrywide campaign of plunder and pillage in which everyone who stood to profit took part – trade unions, youth organizations, sports clubs, the armed forces, and government officials of all ranks. Ordinary citizens also took part in this campaign wherever they could; indeed, the share of “private” elements in the plunder was enormous – at least half of the property of which the Jews were robbed apparently never reached the state treasury but remained in the hands of individual Croatians.....

"The mass arrest of Jews was set in motion with a decree issued by Ante Pavelic on June 26, 1941, that accused the Jews of spreading lies in order to incite the population and of interfering with the orderly supply of essential commodities, “well known black-marketeers that they are. …I declare that the Jews are collectively guilty and order them to be imprisoned…in concentration camps.”

[SQUID]

Dio: Your not getting my point.

Also, please don't try to twist history by creating this perception that the poor suffering Croatian people where like black slaves in Mississippi back in the 1800’s and just wanted their freedom. Croatians were part of the Pan-Slavic Nationalistic movement for Yugoslavia.

Also, in more recent history, you fail to see that Tito wasn't even a Serb, he was born a Croat with a Slovene mother. He has no Serb blood line. In fact he fought against Serbs during the first world war. Hell even the man that preceded Tito was Croatian; Ivan Ribar.

Croatians like Franjo Supilo, Ante Trumbic and Ivan Mestrovic wanted and pushed for a Pan Slavic union because they wanted to resist the great European powers at the time. That means Croatia saw a security and diplomatic benefit by being part of a larger entity.

I don't know why I'm wasting my time because you will never acknowledge such facts. You're so interested in spreading your kind of ethnocentric perception that you have lost your way.

Good luck Dio.

[Bokababe]

"What “Ustashe” won?"

Same ideology with the next generation carrying on "the tradition".

Like I said before, the old Ustase never died, so there never really was "a break" between the end of WWII and the 1990's. There was just "regrouping" in the diaspora until it was time to take the ideology back to Croatia -- and literally take back Croatia.

Both Father Vladimir Mrvcin (translator for Artukovic's first deportation trial) and Major Felman told me, back in the 1980's, that "the Croat lobby in Congress is more powerful than you think. In our zeal to defeat communism, the US befriended fascists and gave them a seat at the table." At the time, I was skeptical -- a few years later, they both proved terribly right.

[Diocletian]

That’s interesting, considering that Schwartz himself told me that he was born in Belgrade. And thanks for reinforcing my point about the “Honorary Aryan” status.

[Diocletian]

Same ideology with the next generation carrying on "the tradition".

Sorry, the ideology was completely different in 1990 than in 1941. And the Ustashe were long gone. Those who were still lingering had no significant role in the creation of the new Croatia.....HOP had close to zero support.

Like I said before, the old Ustase never died, so there never really was "a break" between the end of WWII and the 1990's.

You're joking, right? The 1990s were led by those who fought the Ustashe...men like Tudjman, Manolic, Djodan, etc.

There was just "regrouping" in the diaspora until it was time to take the ideology back to Croatia -- and literally take back Croatia.

Except that Ustasha ideology was rejected.

Both Father Vladimir Mrvcin (translator for Artukovic's first deportation trial) and Major Felman told me, back in the 1980's, that "the Croat lobby in Congress is more powerful than you think. In our zeal to defeat communism, the US befriended fascists and gave them a seat at the table." At the time, I was skeptical -- a few years later, they both proved terribly right.

Except of course for the fact that Croatia's independence drive was led by those who fought the Ustashe.

[Diocletian]

Also, please don't try to twist history by creating this perception that the poor suffering Croatian people where like black slaves in Mississippi back in the 1800’s and just wanted their freedom.

We did just want our freedom. And we fought for it. And we won it.

Croatians were part of the Pan-Slavic Nationalistic movement for Yugoslavia.

Which of course was shown to be an error with the adoption of the centralist Vidovdan Constitution in 1921, which led to the rise of the HSS and the rejection of Yugoslavism as nothing but Greater Serbianism.

Also, in more recent history, you fail to see that Tito wasn't even a Serb, he was born a Croat with a Slovene mother. He has no Serb blood line. In fact he fought against Serbs during the first world war. Hell even the man that preceded Tito was Croatian; Ivan Ribar.

Which of course is why Tito extended amnesty to Serbian Chetniks but not to Ustashe. Which of course is why Tito said that "The Ustashe must be destroyed". Which of course is why Tito removed Eastern Srijem from Croatia and gave it to Serbia. Which of course is why the police, both regular and secret, in the SR Croatia were overwhelmingly Serb.

Croatians like Franjo Supilo, Ante Trumbic and Ivan Mestrovic wanted and pushed for a Pan Slavic union because they wanted to resist the great European powers at the time. That means Croatia saw a security and diplomatic benefit by being part of a larger entity.

Which they later regretted, as testified by each of them. 1921 was a big turning point.

I don't know why I'm wasting my time because you will never acknowledge such facts. You're so interested in spreading your kind of ethnocentric perception that you have lost your way.

Because you don't have a handle on facts. Sorry, but Serbian rule for us was a disaster and we want nothing to do with them other than to be good neighbours and trade.

[Bokababe]

Try again.

Tudjman moved further and further to the right over the years.Tudjman openly revived all the old Ustasa to prominence.

"....Ante Stojanov was an accomplice in the murder of Yugoslav Ambassador to Sweden Vladimir Rolovi in 1972 and Sabor deputy Vinko Nikolic}, an ideologist of the Independent State of Croatia (1941-1945) and the member of the Ustasha headquarters and the ideologist of the Ustasha youth. Nostalgia for Ustasha leaders. Croatia is rehabilitating the leaders of the Ustasha movement, renaming streets, squares, schools and other institutions after them. The Victims of Fascism Square in Zagreb has been renamed in Great Croatians Square, anti-fascist memorials are being pulled down (over 2 000 memorials commemorating the victims of fascism have been demolished in Dalmatia alone), Pavelic's pictures are flooding the barracks of the Croatian Army, Croatian military units are given the names of notorious Ustashas such as Franceti}, Boban and Luburi}, cafes and restaurants are named "Poglavnik" (the Supreme Leader, the title given to Ante Pavelic during World War Two), "Ustasha" or "U" and Pavelic's pictures are displayed in public places. On 6 August 1995, Croatian units entered the defeated and ethnically cleansed Knin singing Ustasha songs and waving Ustasha symbols.

Fascists given positions in Tudjman's Government. The Tudjman regime has appointed former Ustasha officials to high positions in present-day Croatia. Former members of the Ustasha movement have filled the ranks of Croatian diplomacy, military and police. Among them, as reported by "The New York Times", is an Ustasha woman terrorist in the Croatian Embassy in Washington.

President Tudjman has also rehabilitated the high-ranking Ustasha official from Dubrovnik, Ivo Rojnica, appointed him Croatian Ambassador to Argentina and decorated him with a high Croatian order. Rojnica had said that he would have done what he did from 1941-1945 over again. He had signed a racist order of the Independent State of Croatia in 1941 and was decorated by Ante Pavelic for his "dedicated work in carrying out the entrusted duty in the Ustasha movement".

By a decision of President Tudjman, Vinko Nikolic}, member of the Ustasha General Staff and the ideologist of the Ustasha youth, who from 1941-1945 participated in the genocide against the Serbs, Jews and Romanies, has been appointed member of the House of Counties of the Sabor of the Republic of Croatia...."

[Diocletian]

Please tell us what Rojnica and Nikolic actually did during that time of political importance as opposed to Manolic, Tudjman, Djodan and the rest of the Croatian leadership. Rojnica and Nikolic were given two symoblic posts....the exceptions that prove the rule.

As for the removal of Communist monuments, there's nothing wrong with that at all. One street was named for Mile Budak, so that's another mountain being made out of a molehill.

And you've avoided the question, what "Ustasha ideology" in the 1990s?

[Bokababe]

"As for the removal of Communist monuments, there's nothing wrong with that at all."

On that, we can agree.

"One street was named for Mile Budak, so that's another mountain being made out of a molehill."

Mile Budak, who during WWII, WROTE the NDH's "racial laws" and enacted programs to carry them out? Mile Budak, who said that "the way to deal with the Serbs in Croatia (which included Bosnia in those day) is to kill one third, expel one third and forceably convert one third to Catholicism"? And that is supposed to be " a molehill"? Especially to Serbs who have lived in Croatia for generations, Dio?

"And you've avoided the question, what "Ustasha ideology" in the 1990s?"

Let me put it this way, if the ideology of the 1990's had changed from that of the 1940's, then why was the same symbolism used? The Germans got rid of the swastika. Why were 1990's Croat paramilitary units allowed wear these WWII insignia, clearing bearing the WWII Ustasa markings?

These are just two of many such insignia.

And then there is my clear favorite of all the eBay Ustasa items and this one is a bit more current

A video featuring Pavelic footage, Jasenovac documentary footage and Marko Perkovic music -- including his snappy little hit "Jasenovac & Gradiska Stara" (deathcamps) , and labeled "CHILDREN & FAMILY" (entertainment).

Please tell me, Dio, what kind of parent shows their children deathcamp footage to "a happy little tune"?

This is exactly what I mean about the "Croat blindness" to what's wrong with all of this! You are a very intelligent guy, Dio, but even you don't get it. It's just plain evil!

[Diocletian]

Mile Budak wasn't just an Ustasha, he was the second most famous and second best Croatian writer prior to WW2 (second only in reputation to Miroslav Krleza). His treatment at the hands of the Serbian gendarmie no doubt coloured his anti-Serbian nature by the time WW2 arrived and no doubt pushed him towards the Ustashe a few years prior to that.

Let me put it this way, if the ideology of the 1990's had changed from that of the 1940's, then why was the same symbolism used?

The Croatian gov't didn't use any Ustasha symbolism. In fact, Tudjman went purposely out of his way to order a change to the Coat of Arms and to the flag for this very purpose: to differentiate RH from NDH.

The Germans got rid of the swastika. Why were 1990's Croat paramilitary units allowed wear these WWII insignia, clearing bearing the WWII Ustasa markings?

You just answered your own question by admitting that they were paramilitaries and not official RH forces.