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FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BURNS BRANCH DAVIDIANS - April 19, 1993
WGBH ^ | 1995 | Frontline

Posted on 04/18/2008 12:21:19 PM PDT by Constitutionalist1958

At 5:59 a.m., SAGE telephones the Davidians, notifying them of an imminent tear-gas assault. SAGE reads a message over the loudspeaker, advising the Davidians that they are under arrest and should come out. At 6:02 a.m., two FBI combat engineering vehicles, or CEVs, begin inserting gas into the compound through spray nozzles attached to a boom. At 6:04 a.m., the Davidians start shooting, and the FBI begin deploying Bradley vehicles to insert ferret rounds through the windows. At 6:31, the HRT reports that the entire building is being gassed. At about 7 a.m., RENO and senior advisors go to the FBI situation room. At 7:30, a CEV breaches the front side of the building on the first floor as it injects gas, and at 7:58 a.m., gas is inserted in the second floor of the back-right corner of the building. The FBI calls for more gas from outside Waco, and at 9:20 a.m., 48 more ferret rounds arrive from Houston. At about 9:30 a.m., with the supply of ferret rounds dwindling, one CEV is having mechanical troubles, and high winds are blowing the gas away. Another CEV begins enlarging the opening in the middle-front of the building "from which the Davidians could escape" and a third CEV with a boom but lacking a gas delivery system breaches the rear side of the building "to create openings near the gymnasium." At about 11 a.m., (Washington time) RENO talks to CLINTON, saying everything seems to be going well, and she leaves for a judicial conference in Baltimore at 11:30 a.m.. The CEV without a gas delivery system breaches the back side of the compound, concentrating on the back right corner near the warehouse-gymnasium. At 11:40 a.m., the last ferret rounds are delivered.

(Excerpt) Read more at pbs.org ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: 1993; anniversary; batf; clintonlegacy; fbi; jenetreno; pbs; waco
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Tomorrow, April 19, 1993 is the 15th anniversary of one of the saddest events in American history. It is the day that agents of the Federal government burned to death nearly 80 INNOCENT citizens - infants, children, teenagers and adults of a small, little known Christian sect named the Branch Davidians. Having been attacked by the BATF on a Sunday morning, February 28, 1993, they were surrounded and subjected to psychological warfare techniques for 51 days. Then on the morning of April 19, 1993 agents of the Federal government, using military-supplied tracked vehicles attacked the wooden housing structure of the Branch Davidians for the purpose of introducing CS gas. Fires erupted and the entire structure was consumed. Few escaped the flames and by the end of the day the Branch Davidians were dead. To this day, not one BATF agent, not one FBI agent, not one military officer or one Justice Department official has been reprimanded or charged with wrongdoing in the death of these INNOCENT citizens. To this very day, justice has been denied for the INNOCENT infants, children, adolescents and adults burned to death at the hands of US Federal Government.
1 posted on 04/18/2008 12:21:20 PM PDT by Constitutionalist1958
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To: Constitutionalist1958; Abathar; Abcdefg; Abram; Abundy; akatel; albertp; AlexandriaDuke; ...
see post 1

Libertarian ping! To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here.
2 posted on 04/18/2008 12:24:32 PM PDT by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: Constitutionalist1958

And it ALL could have been avoided if the FBI had simply waited for him to drive into town, like he did EVERY week to pick up the newspapers, and arrested him there.


3 posted on 04/18/2008 12:24:32 PM PDT by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th)
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To: Constitutionalist1958

Some things don’t change:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2003292/posts


4 posted on 04/18/2008 12:25:51 PM PDT by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: traviskicks

BTTT


5 posted on 04/18/2008 12:30:34 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
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To: Constitutionalist1958
Oh come on, they were “religious nutjobs”, it's not like they were American Citizens or anything. There people were a threat to everything that makes America what it is today. A threat I say and well deserving of death for not toeing the line!

And they were abusing the children! Uncle Sam had to burn those children to death to save them from allegedly being abused.

If we can't trust the government to incinerate people for their own good, then who can we look to?

6 posted on 04/18/2008 12:34:32 PM PDT by Dr.Zoidberg (Mohammedanism - Bringing you only the best of the 6th century for fourteen hundred years.)
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To: Constitutionalist1958
Reports at the time said that military tear gas, CS, was being used.

CS can KILL you! You drown in mucus and saliva. I know because I pulled a combat engineer out of a VC tunnel pumped full of CS. His gas mask had damp filters and was not working. The other two combat engineers with him barely made it out, gasping, coughing and crying.

When I got to the third man and tried to turn him to get a rope around him, he only gurgled. We got him hauled out and the Navy corpsman was able to restore his breathing with CPR.

He lived and miraculously recovered without brain damage. (or at least no more brain damage that we Marines normally have! :-) )

It was CRIMINAL for Reno to allow and Larry Potts to order CS to be used in an enclosed space with INNOCENT women & children inside. They are guilty of negligent homicide at the least.

7 posted on 04/18/2008 12:34:56 PM PDT by BwanaNdege ("The Map is not the Territory")
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To: WayneS

Bill Clinton and Janet Reno Murdered 20 innocent American Children


8 posted on 04/18/2008 12:35:14 PM PDT by LtKerst (Lt Kerst)
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To: Constitutionalist1958
A videotape of the children in the compound is sent out by the Davidians. The negotiators' log shows that, when the tape is reviewed, there is concern that if the tape is released to the media, KORESH would gain much sympathy. [Dennis 11]

Has this tape ever been released?

9 posted on 04/18/2008 12:35:17 PM PDT by beltfed308 (Heller: The defining moment of our Republic)
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To: Dr.Zoidberg

Bttt


10 posted on 04/18/2008 12:35:36 PM PDT by firewalk
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To: Constitutionalist1958

All the Davidians had to to was to leave the compound as some of them did between 2/29 and 4/19. However, they choose to stay even after the cult leaders set the compound on fire.

And no, I do not believe that FBI and BATF Agents would intentionally set the place on fire. And yes, I have heard and read what Alex Jones and his ilk believe and that is B.S.


11 posted on 04/18/2008 12:36:28 PM PDT by trumandogz ("He is erratic. He is hotheaded. He loses his temper and it worries me." Sen Cochran on McCain)
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To: traviskicks

“Some things don’t change”

And the tangent is what? That both lived on a compound? Please explain the relevance of the link you posted.

Thanks


12 posted on 04/18/2008 12:37:12 PM PDT by He'sComingBack!
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To: Constitutionalist1958
it was the idiots in the federal government who wanted to have their play military actions seen on TV so they could ask for more money from the congress. There was NO reason to not arrest they man they wanted in town away from the building but as is normally the case they have the power to kill us all and nothing will every be done about it. “We The People” are no longer in charge.
13 posted on 04/18/2008 12:37:22 PM PDT by YOUGOTIT (The Greatest Threat to our Security is the Royal 100 Club)
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To: WayneS

The DOJ is above the law, that was clearly indicated by Reno after this event and the Ruby Ridge killings.

The entire complex was razed within 24 hours after the fire. There musta been some good evidence of crimes by the FBI and ATF for them to do that.


14 posted on 04/18/2008 12:37:26 PM PDT by driftdiver
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To: Constitutionalist1958

And before the military attack on the Branch Davidians and their children, Hillary Clinton flew to Austin to confer with then Gov. Ann Richards. The Clintons were sick of the 54 day stand-off in Waco and wanted to end it.

I’d like someone to file a FOIA to see if there is a record of what Hillary Clinton told Gov. Richards. I think it’s a safe bet that she gave the governor a heads-up that the military would be coming in to end it, with Janet Reno’s blessing, and Gov. Richards had to provide the fig leaf of requesting help from Ft. Hood. Hillary doesn’t seem to brag about this episode in her resume of how she handled various crises as First Lady.

Because the women were taking care of it, Billy Jeff could hide behind Reno’s ample skirt after the inferno that cremated 22 Texas children.

Strangely, there was scarcely a peep from the American people after this atrocity...far less that the wailing about rights of the children at the FLDS compound at Eldorado, who are in a much safer situation than the Davidian children were.


15 posted on 04/18/2008 12:37:56 PM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: Constitutionalist1958
Press Briefing by George Stephanopoulos

THE WHITE HOUSE

Office of the Press Secretary

For Immediate Release April 19, 1993

PRESS BRIEFING
BY GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS

The Briefing Room

1:10 P.M. EDT

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I can just take questions today. I have no announcements to make.

~ snip ~

Q Does the President or anybody in the White House have any input into the operation in Waco?

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The Attorney General informed the President yesterday that they were planning on going ahead with this kind of an operation. But it's a decision by the Attorney General and the FBI.

Q George, since the Attorney General works for the President, isn't it fair to say that it's a presidential decision not to stop it?

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The President was clearly informed of --

Q apparently gave approval to do it, or he could have stopped it.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, he didn't stop it. No, he didn't stop it. The Attorney General informed --

Q So in not stopping it, he approved it.

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: We can get into a philosophical or semantic discussion, but --

Q Well, he assumes responsibility --

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Certainly he is responsible, but it's the Attorney General and the FBI have operational control over this. But clearly he was informed.

Q Did she ask him for authorization?

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: No, she informed him. She said this is what the FBI would like to do.

Q But why, George -- Dee Dee didn't know this morning -- why is it FBI and Justice as opposed to ATF --

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: That was -- a special agent was put in charge -- I think it was within 24 hours of the original incident. That's not common practice. And the FBI has been --

Q It's not a reflection on the agency?

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Not in the least. The FBI has been in control of this since the very beginning.

Q Why did the President think this was the right time to go ahead?

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: The FBI laid out -- I mean, the Attorney General for the FBI laid out the arguments. And I can't get into all of the details of the argument. It wouldn't be appropriate to do that while the situation is still going on. But the Attorney General laid out the argument and the President made no objection.

Q Has he received any reports today?

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: I think he's been -- we've been receiving periodic updates from the FBI.

Q How closely is he following it, though, along those same lines? Is this something he's following the news accounts? Is someone there calling him from the Justice Department every hour or two hours or what?

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, he's received periodic reports during the day. I don't know how many he's received. Clearly, CNN is also giving it blanket coverage. But the President has received reports from the Justice Department this morning.

Q Shakey coverage. (Laughter.)

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Wolf, what do you have to say to that?

~ snip ~

Q Before Haiti, can we get back to Waco for one second? We were just told the Waco -- the building, the compound is now on fire. Have you heard about that?

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: This just in.

Q You've got to move faster. (Laughter.)

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, what is just in is that CNN is now showing live footage of -- (laughter) -- of the building on the Koresh compound. It's unclear what this is. I have no independent information on this, as you know. It's just reported. I will try and get something and get it back to you.

Q Can I ask about Haiti?

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Sure.

~ snip ~


16 posted on 04/18/2008 12:38:30 PM PDT by HAL9000 ("If someone who has access to the press says something over and over again, people believe it"- B.C.)
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To: WayneS

“And it ALL could have been avoided if the FBI had simply waited for him to drive into town, like he did EVERY week to pick up the newspapers, and arrested him there.”

If they did that they wouldn’t be able use use the tank, flash-bang grenades, etc. Jeez, what’s the matter with you?


17 posted on 04/18/2008 12:38:54 PM PDT by AmericanHunter
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To: trumandogz
You wrote “And no, I do not believe that FBI and BATF Agents would intentionally set the place on fire.”

I firmly believe that the play military civilians set the place on fire and killed the children with NO regrets when they did NOT have to do it and could have made the arrest in town like they should have done but wanted to play military.

18 posted on 04/18/2008 12:39:55 PM PDT by YOUGOTIT (The Greatest Threat to our Security is the Royal 100 Club)
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To: He'sComingBack!

The idea was that abuse of government power and force is still going on today. That link described how “416 children taken by the state” from their families, over a ‘phone call alleging abuse’. It used to be you were innocent until proven guilty.


19 posted on 04/18/2008 12:41:56 PM PDT by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: kittymyrib

RE: Branch Davidians VS. Current situation in Eldorado...

Maybe some of us American people learned our lesson after Waco.


20 posted on 04/18/2008 12:44:14 PM PDT by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th)
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To: Constitutionalist1958

APRIL 19th! Grecian Formula 59!!! AAAAHHH!


21 posted on 04/18/2008 12:44:15 PM PDT by ichabod1 (I'm a bitter TWiP.)
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To: AmericanHunter

Yeah, you’re right. I don’t know WHAT I was thinking.


22 posted on 04/18/2008 12:45:33 PM PDT by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th)
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To: YOUGOTIT
I did not condone the original tactics of the raid at Waco or at Ruby Ridge, in both cases the Presidents and their Attorneys General screwed up.

However, each of the people in the compound at Waco had the chance to leave and some elected to exit the building while others elected not to leave.

23 posted on 04/18/2008 12:46:45 PM PDT by trumandogz ("He is erratic. He is hotheaded. He loses his temper and it worries me." Sen Cochran on McCain)
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To: WayneS

We had to destroy the compound in order to save it.


24 posted on 04/18/2008 12:47:29 PM PDT by Nachoman (My guns and my ammo, they comfort me.)
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To: BwanaNdege

“CS can KILL you! You drown in mucus and saliva. I know because I pulled a combat engineer out of a VC tunnel pumped full of CS. His gas mask had damp filters and was not working. The other two combat engineers with him barely made it out, gasping, coughing and crying.”

They pumped CS gas into the building in concentrations almost guaranteed to kill people by replacing available oxygen.

They also knew there was a high chance of a fire. When CS gas burns it releases a chemical (Phosgene) which is banned by Treaty for use in war, but not by a government against its own citizens. This chemical causes severe muscle spasms. One of the children was found bent in half, backwards. Their back muscles spasmed to the point it broke the kids spine.


25 posted on 04/18/2008 12:47:42 PM PDT by driftdiver
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To: driftdiver

Reno had absolutely nothing to do with the Ruby Ridge situation. That happened, as I’m sure you know but don’t want to say, under the Republican administration of George HW Bush.


26 posted on 04/18/2008 12:48:48 PM PDT by dmz
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To: trumandogz

“All the Davidians had to to was to leave the compound as some of them did between 2/29 and 4/19. However, they choose to stay even after the cult leaders set the compound on fire.”

And so its all right for the government to kill them. There is some evidence that people were shot as they ran out of the building. Of course we’ll never know because the site was razed within 24 hours.


27 posted on 04/18/2008 12:48:52 PM PDT by driftdiver
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To: traviskicks
It used to be you were innocent until proven guilty.

Are you mad? It's "FOR THE CHILDREN!"

As long as "children" are involved, 9 out of 10 people are more than happy to go along with anything the authorities do even if it's in direct opposition to what these people know to be right.

"For the Children", remember that phrase, it's the easiest way to separate citizens from their good sense.

The next is "terrorism/global war on terrorism/terrorist", but that's a discussion for another thread.
28 posted on 04/18/2008 12:49:34 PM PDT by Dr.Zoidberg (Mohammedanism - Bringing you only the best of the 6th century for fourteen hundred years.)
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To: trumandogz

The FLIR footage from that day is pretty damning to the government IMO.


29 posted on 04/18/2008 12:50:32 PM PDT by Sybeck1 (It's truly bad when your Savior in November is Judas Himself.)
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To: driftdiver
There is some evidence that people were shot as they ran out of the building

Heck, they shot some unarmed kid in the back trying to get in shortly after the raid.

30 posted on 04/18/2008 12:51:26 PM PDT by beltfed308 (Heller: The defining moment of our Republic)
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To: trumandogz

“in both cases the Presidents and their Attorneys General screwed up.”

No, they were party to murder.

“However, each of the people in the compound at Waco had the chance to leave and some elected to exit the building while others elected not to leave.”

The kids had that choice? The only reason to do the forced entry was because their ego’s were bruised. They could have arrested him in town easily as the local sheriff recommended. Instead they called the press and planned for a high risk assault on these citizens.


31 posted on 04/18/2008 12:52:25 PM PDT by driftdiver
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To: driftdiver
There is some evidence that people were shot as they ran out of the building. Of course we’ll never know because the site was razed within 24 hours.

So which is it? Is there some evidence that people were shot as they exited the compound or was all the evidence destroyed?

What exactly was the evidence that points to your theory that people were shot as they exited the burning building?

32 posted on 04/18/2008 12:53:28 PM PDT by trumandogz ("He is erratic. He is hotheaded. He loses his temper and it worries me." Sen Cochran on McCain)
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To: BwanaNdege

CS gas is also combustable. You’d think that someone with a Chemical Engineering background from Cornell like Janet Reno is would know that.


33 posted on 04/18/2008 12:55:16 PM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: Constitutionalist1958

After all has been analyzed, I think there is a strong probability that the Branch Davidians had not broken any laws at all.

The entire operation was a set up. The main reason I think that is Democratic Congressmen blocked all efforts to have NRA experts examine the recovered remains of the guns. the cowardly Republicans let them bamboozle them. It just doesn’t make sense that they would mind if they really were fully automatic.


34 posted on 04/18/2008 12:56:21 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: dmz

“However, each of the people in the compound at Waco had the chance to leave and some elected to exit the building while others elected not to leave.”

It was during his term true. It was committed by the FBI which was grown under Reno. And oh by the way, I didn’t like him either.


35 posted on 04/18/2008 12:59:08 PM PDT by driftdiver
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To: beltfed308

Heck, they shot some unarmed kid in the back trying to get in shortly after the raid.
_______

I don’t know that I’ve heard this before. Link?


36 posted on 04/18/2008 1:00:21 PM PDT by dmz
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To: trumandogz

My Lord!

Why does it seem that any given atrocity isn’t complete without apologists?


37 posted on 04/18/2008 1:01:50 PM PDT by labette
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To: Constitutionalist1958

Apparently, today is the day to unload a huge pile of steaming,redolent crap upon the readers of FR as well.

Shouting an obvious lie at the top of your lungs does NOT make it true - no matter how much you want it to be.


38 posted on 04/18/2008 1:01:57 PM PDT by genefromjersey (So much to flame;so little time !)
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To: driftdiver
Again, I am not a fan of the way the Feds went into Ruby Ridge or Waco. In fact I will say that the Feds, as often times, were abusive in their powers and actions.

However, in the case of Waco adults and children did leave the compound after the original assault. But for some reason, some decided to stay and force their children to stay in the compound even after the fire started and to seek refuge inside a school bus under the compound.

Now, it has been 16 years since Ruby Ridge and 15 years since Waco and in that time not one Federal Agent involved in the actions has implicated their President, Attorney General or commander in these killings.

If the agents were to just come forward they would be granted immunity and we would see former presidents and attorneys general placed on trial for murder.

39 posted on 04/18/2008 1:03:17 PM PDT by trumandogz ("He is erratic. He is hotheaded. He loses his temper and it worries me." Sen Cochran on McCain)
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To: labette
I am not an apologist for the actions at Waco or Ruby Ridge, both were abuses of government powers. However, it is clear that the people who stayed inside the Davidian Compound did so on their own free will and had every opportunity to leave.
40 posted on 04/18/2008 1:07:00 PM PDT by trumandogz ("He is erratic. He is hotheaded. He loses his temper and it worries me." Sen Cochran on McCain)
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To: driftdiver

I don’t want to minimize the problems with burning CS, but the bodies that were recovered were extensively burned. The doubling-over backward is likely an artifact of burning. The muscles contract, and the back muscles are far more massive than the abdominal muscles, and so the distortion. It’s been my misfortune to see this on a number of occasions.

That having been said, it still would have been unbearable to be a child exposed to that much gas.


41 posted on 04/18/2008 1:08:44 PM PDT by SargeK
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To: YOUGOTIT
I firmly believe that the play military civilians set the place on fire and killed the children with NO regrets when they did NOT have to do it and could have made the arrest in town like they should have done but wanted to play military.

Sure, ignore the fact that the Davidians shot and killed four officers and wounded 16 others that tried to serve a warrant to arrest their leader.

Ignore that the FBI tried for days to get them to surrender before trying to drive them out.

Ignore that the FBI breached the compound in a number of places to give the people inside a chance to get out.

Instead you just decide, basically based on nothing, that the evil government intentionally burned to death all those people including women and children, despite all their efforts to try and get them to leave safely.

The Davidians could have allowed the women and children to safely leave before the situation which they escalated, escalated again. They instead chose to try and use those women and children as a shield against the consequences of their own actions. They hid behind them.

It's a horrible tragedy that innocent people died in the raid. However, the Davidians were apparently more than willing to risk the lives of those innocent people. They were murderous cowards that deserve their current home in the fiery pit of hell.

But hey, why place blame on the Davidians when you can do everything in your power to ignore the facts and come op with some way with your limited knowledge of the facts, that you think the government should have done things differently.

Maybe they didn't arrest him in town because they had a warrant to search the compound as well, and why have two risky operations instead of one? It's not like they weren't still going to have to serve a warrant at the compound even if the arrested Koresh while he was in town. And in town it would be easier for him to get away, and there would have been people around that were in no way related to the actions of Koresh that would have been put in danger.

42 posted on 04/18/2008 1:09:01 PM PDT by untrained skeptic
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To: WayneS
And it ALL could have been avoided if the FBI had simply waited for him to drive into town, like he did EVERY week to pick up the newspapers, and arrested him there.

But where is the fun in that? Those bozos just love the chance to do a "dynamic entry".

It is the SWAT mentality, over and over.

43 posted on 04/18/2008 1:11:33 PM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: dmz
http://www.mcsm.org/waco25.html has some info.

When three men who were not present during the initial government raid tried to return to be with their families inside Mt. Carmel, more trouble took place.

Two men were taken into custody and agents killed Michael Dean Schroeder.

His body was left out in the open in a ravine for five days. The BATF claims Schroeder refused demands to surrender and raised a pistol. The autopsy report shows seven bullets hit him, according to Whitehurst.

Survivors reported that after Schroeder was shot, and after they were being led away and taken into custody, two additional shots were fired, which they believe were made because Schroeder was not dead yet. The autopsy report does show two bullet holes right next to each other in Schroeder's head.

44 posted on 04/18/2008 1:12:04 PM PDT by beltfed308 (Heller: The defining moment of our Republic)
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To: trumandogz

“So which is it? Is there some evidence that people were shot as they exited the compound or was all the evidence destroyed?”

Both, there is video of bullets holes in metal doors which appeared to be from external sources. the door with the holes disappeared after they cleaned up the site. The Texas rangers also testified before Congress that they saw people pouring bleach on evidence the day after the fire.

“What exactly was the evidence that points to your theory that people were shot as they exited the burning building?”

The fact that dead people were found shot outside the building. Witness statements from the few survivors.


45 posted on 04/18/2008 1:13:15 PM PDT by driftdiver
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To: BwanaNdege

CS is a powder. The liquid used as a carrier was Methylene Chloride.

in order to save the server at http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/m4420.htm

I’ll post the whole thing here. No one was meant to get out alive. Keep in mind this was pumped into a building containing children “for the children”.

MSDS Number: M4420 * * * * * Effective Date: 10/06/05 * * * * * Supercedes: 05/14/03



METHYLENE CHLORIDE


1. Product Identification
Synonyms: MC; Dichloromethane (DCM); Methylene dichloride; Methylene bichloride; Methane dichloride
CAS No.: 75-09-2
Molecular Weight: 84.93
Chemical Formula: CH2Cl2
Product Codes: 9235, 9264, 9266, 9295, 9315, 9324, 9329, 9330, 9348, 9350, 9965, Q480


2. Composition/Information on Ingredients

Ingredient CAS No Percent Hazardous
-——————————————————— —————— —————— -————

Methylene Chloride 75-09-2 > 99% Yes


3. Hazards Identification
Emergency Overview


WARNING! HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED, INHALED OR ABSORBED THROUGH SKIN. AFFECTS CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM, LIVER, CARDIOVASCULAR SYSTEM, AND BLOOD. CAUSES IRRITATION TO SKIN, EYES AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. SUSPECT CANCER HAZARD. MAY CAUSE CANCER. Risk of cancer depends on level and duration of exposure.

SAF-T-DATA(tm) Ratings (Provided here for your convenience)


Health Rating: 3 - Severe (Cancer Causing)
Flammability Rating: 1 - Slight
Reactivity Rating: 2 - Moderate
Contact Rating: 3 - Severe
Lab Protective Equip: GOGGLES & SHIELD; LAB COAT & APRON; VENT HOOD; PROPER GLOVES
Storage Color Code: Blue (Health)

Potential Health Effects


Inhalation:
Causes irritation to respiratory tract. Has a strong narcotic effect with symptoms of mental confusion, light-headedness, fatigue, nausea, vomiting and headache. Causes formation of carbon monoxide in blood which affects cardiovascular system and central nervous system. Continued exposure may cause increased light-headedness, staggering, unconsciousness, and even death. Exposure may make the symptoms of angina (chest pains) worse.
Ingestion:
May cause irritation of the gastrointestinal tract with vomiting. If vomiting results in aspiration, chemical pneumonia could follow. Absorption through gastrointestinal tract may produce symptoms of central nervous system depression ranging from light headedness to unconsciousness.
Skin Contact:
Causes irritation, redness and pain. Prolonged contact can cause burns. Liquid degreases the skin. May be absorbed through skin.
Eye Contact:
Vapors can cause eye irritation. Contact can produce pain, inflammation and temporal eye damage.
Chronic Exposure:
Can cause headache, mental confusion, depression, liver effects, kidney effects, bronchitis, loss of appetite, nausea, lack of balance, and visual disturbances. Can cause dermatitis upon prolonged skin contact. Methylene chloride may cause cancer in humans.
Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions:
Persons with pre-existing skin disorders, eye problems, impaired liver, kidney, respiratory or cardiovascular function may be more susceptible to the effects of this substance.


4. First Aid Measures
Inhalation:
Remove to fresh air. If not breathing, give artificial respiration. If breathing is difficult, give oxygen. Get medical attention.
Ingestion:
If swallowed, DO NOT INDUCE VOMITING. Give large quantities of water. Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person. Get medical attention immediately.
Skin Contact:
Immediately flush skin with plenty of soap and water for at least 15 minutes while removing contaminated clothing and shoes. Get medical attention. Wash clothing before reuse. Thoroughly clean shoes before reuse.
Eye Contact:
Immediately flush eyes with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes, lifting lower and upper eyelids occasionally. Get medical attention immediately.


5. Fire Fighting Measures
Fire:
Autoignition temperature: 556C (1033F)
Flammable limits in air % by volume:
lel: 12; uel: 23
Forms flammable vapor-air mixtures above 100C (212F).
Explosion:
Concentrated can be ignited by a high intensity ignition source. Vapor may form flammable mixture in atmosphere that contains a high percentage of oxygen. Sealed containers may rupture when heated.
Fire Extinguishing Media:
Dry chemical, foam or carbon dioxide. Water spray may be used to keep fire exposed containers cool.
Special Information:
In the event of a fire, wear full protective clothing and NIOSH-approved self-contained breathing apparatus with full facepiece operated in the pressure demand or other positive pressure mode. Combustion by-products include phosgene and hydrogen chloride gases. Structural firefighters’ clothing provides only limited protection to the combustion products of this material.


6. Accidental Release Measures
Ventilate area of leak or spill. Remove all sources of ignition. Wear appropriate personal protective equipment as specified in Section 8. Isolate hazard area. Keep unnecessary and unprotected personnel from entering. Contain and recover liquid when possible. Use non-sparking tools and equipment. Collect liquid in an appropriate container or absorb with an inert material (e. g., vermiculite, dry sand, earth), and place in a chemical waste container. Do not use combustible materials, such as saw dust. Do not flush to sewer! US Regulations (CERCLA) require reporting spills and releases to soil, water and air in excess of reportable quantities. The toll free number for the US Coast Guard National Response Center is (800) 424-8802.


7. Handling and Storage
Keep in a tightly closed container, stored in a cool, dry, ventilated area. Protect against physical damage. Isolate from any source of heat or ignition. Outside or detached storage is recommended. Containers of this material may be hazardous when empty since they retain product residues (vapors, liquid); observe all warnings and precautions listed for the product. To minimize decomposition, all storage containers should be galvanized or lined with a phenolic coating. This material may corrode plastic and rubber. Wear special protective equipment (Sec. 8) for maintenance break-in or where exposures may exceed established exposure levels. Wash hands, face, forearms and neck when exiting restricted areas. Shower, dispose of outer clothing, change to clean garments at the end of the day. Avoid cross-contamination of street clothes. Wash hands before eating and do not eat, drink, or smoke in workplace. Odor Threshold: 205 - 307 ppm. The odor threshold only serves as a warning of exposure; not smelling it does not mean you are not being exposed.


8. Exposure Controls/Personal Protection
Airborne Exposure Limits:
Methylene Chloride (Dichloromethane):
- OSHA Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL) -
25 ppm (TWA), 125 ppm (STEL), 12.5 ppm (8-hour TWA - Action Level)
- ACGIH Threshold Limit Value (TLV) -
50 ppm (TWA), A3 - suspected human carcinogen.
Ventilation System:
A system of local and/or general exhaust is recommended to keep employee exposures below the Airborne Exposure Limits. Local exhaust ventilation is generally preferred because it can control the emissions of the contaminant at its source, preventing dispersion of it into the general work area. Please refer to the ACGIH document, Industrial Ventilation, A Manual of Recommended Practices, most recent edition, for details.
Personal Respirators (NIOSH Approved):
If the exposure limit is exceeded, wear a supplied air, full-facepiece respirator, airlined hood, or full-facepiece self-contained breathing apparatus. The cartridges recommended for this material have a predicted service of less than 30 minutes at concentrations of ten times (10x) the exposure limits. Actual service life will vary considerbly, depending on concentration levels, temperature, humidity, and work rate. This substance has poor warning properties.
Skin Protection:
Wear impervious protective clothing, including boots, gloves, lab coat, apron or coveralls, as appropriate, to prevent skin contact. Neoprene is a recommended material for personal protective equipment. Natural rubber and polyvinyl chloride ARE NOT recommended materials for personal protective equipment.
Eye Protection:
Use chemical safety goggles and/or a full face shield where splashing is possible. Maintain eye wash fountain and quick-drench facilities in work area.
Other Control Measures:
Do not use closed circuit rebreathing system employing soda lime or other carbon dioxide absorber because of formation of toxic compounds capable of producing cranial nerve paralysis. See OSHA Standard for medical surveillance, record keeping, and reporting requirements for methylene chloride (29 CFR 1910.1052).


9. Physical and Chemical Properties
Appearance:
Clear, colorless liquid.
Odor:
Chloroform-like odor.
Solubility:
1.32 gm/100 gm water @ 20C.
Specific Gravity:
1.318 @ 25C
pH:
No information found.
% Volatiles by volume @ 21C (70F):
100
Boiling Point:
39.8C (104F)
Melting Point:
-97C (-143F)
Vapor Density (Air=1):
2.9
Vapor Pressure (mm Hg):
350 @ 20C (68F)
Evaporation Rate (BuAc=1):
27.5


10. Stability and Reactivity
Stability:
Stable under ordinary conditions of use and storage.
Hazardous Decomposition Products:
Emits highly toxic fumes of phosgene when heated to decomposition. Decomposes in a flame or hot surface to form toxic gas phosgene and corrosive mists of hydrochloric acid. Carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide may form when heated to decomposition.
Hazardous Polymerization:
Will not occur.
Incompatibilities:
Strong oxidizers, strong caustics, plastics, rubber, nitric acid, water + heat, and chemically active metals, such as aluminum and magnesium powder, sodium, potassium, and lithium. Avoid contact with open flames and electrical arcs. Liquid methylene chloride will attack some forms of plastics, rubber, and coatings.
Conditions to Avoid:
Moisture, heat, flames, ignition sources and incompatibles.


11. Toxicological Information
Toxicological Data:
Dichloromethane: Oral rat LD50: 1600 mg/kg; inhalation rat LC50: 52 gm/m3; investigated as a tumorigen, mutagen, reproductive effector.
Reproductive Toxicity:
Dichloromethane has been linked to spontaneous abortions in humans.

————\Cancer Lists\———————————————————————————
-—NTP Carcinogen-—
Ingredient Known Anticipated IARC Category
—————————————————— -—— -————— -——————
Methylene Chloride (75-09-2) No Yes 2B


12. Ecological Information
Environmental Fate:
When released into the soil, this material may leach into groundwater. When released into the soil, this material is expected to quickly evaporate. When released into water, this material may biodegrade to a moderate extent. When released to water, this material is expected to quickly evaporate. This material has a log octanol-water partition coefficient of less than 3.0. This material is not expected to significantly bioaccumulate. When released into the air, this material may be moderately degraded by reaction with photochemically produced hydroxyl radicals. When released into the air, this material is expected to have a half-life of greater than 30 days. When released into the air, this material may be removed from the atmosphere to a moderate extent by wet deposition.
Environmental Toxicity:
The LC50/96-hour values for fish are over 100 mg/l. This material is not expected to be toxic to aquatic life.


13. Disposal Considerations
Whatever cannot be saved for recovery or recycling should be handled as hazardous waste and sent to a RCRA approved incinerator or disposed in a RCRA approved waste facility. Processing, use or contamination of this product may change the waste management options. State and local disposal regulations may differ from federal disposal regulations. Dispose of container and unused contents in accordance with federal, state and local requirements.


14. Transport Information
Domestic (Land, D.O.T.)


Proper Shipping Name: DICHLOROMETHANE
Hazard Class: 6.1
UN/NA: UN1593
Packing Group: III
Information reported for product/size: 52L

International (Water, I.M.O.)


Proper Shipping Name: DICHLOROMETHANE
Hazard Class: 6.1
UN/NA: UN1593
Packing Group: III
Information reported for product/size: 52L

International (Air, I.C.A.O.)


Proper Shipping Name: DICHLOROMETHANE
Hazard Class: 6.1
UN/NA: UN1593
Packing Group: III
Information reported for product/size: 52L


15. Regulatory Information
————\Chemical Inventory Status - Part 1\-————————————————
Ingredient TSCA EC Japan Australia
-——————————————————————— —— -— -—— -————
Methylene Chloride (75-09-2) Yes Yes Yes Yes

————\Chemical Inventory Status - Part 2\-————————————————
—Canada—
Ingredient Korea DSL NDSL Phil.
-——————————————————————— -—— -— —— -——
Methylene Chloride (75-09-2) Yes Yes No Yes

————\Federal, State & International Regulations - Part 1\————————
-SARA 302- ———SARA 313———
Ingredient RQ TPQ List Chemical Catg.
-———————————————————— -— -—— —— ———————
Methylene Chloride (75-09-2) No No Yes No

————\Federal, State & International Regulations - Part 2\————————
-RCRA- -TSCA-
Ingredient CERCLA 261.33 8(d)
-———————————————————— ——— ——— ———
Methylene Chloride (75-09-2) 1000 U080 No

Chemical Weapons Convention: No TSCA 12(b): No CDTA: No
SARA 311/312: Acute: Yes Chronic: Yes Fire: No Pressure: No
Reactivity: No (Pure / Liquid)

WARNING:
THIS PRODUCT CONTAINS A CHEMICAL(S) KNOWN TO THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA TO CAUSE CANCER.

Australian Hazchem Code: 2Z
Poison Schedule: S5
WHMIS:
This MSDS has been prepared according to the hazard criteria of the Controlled Products Regulations (CPR) and the MSDS contains all of the information required by the CPR.


16. Other Information
NFPA Ratings: Health: 2 Flammability: 1 Reactivity: 0
Label Hazard Warning:
WARNING! HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED, INHALED OR ABSORBED THROUGH SKIN. AFFECTS CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM, LIVER, CARDIOVASCULAR SYSTEM, AND BLOOD. CAUSES IRRITATION TO SKIN, EYES AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. SUSPECT CANCER HAZARD. MAY CAUSE CANCER. Risk of cancer depends on level and duration of exposure.
Label Precautions:
Do not breathe vapor.
Keep container closed.
Use only with adequate ventilation.
Wash thoroughly after handling.
Keep away from heat and flame.
Do not get in eyes, on skin, or on clothing.
Label First Aid:
If swallowed, DO NOT INDUCE VOMITING. Give large quantities of water. Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person. If inhaled, remove to fresh air. If not breathing, give artificial respiration. If breathing is difficult, give oxygen. In case of contact, immediately flush eyes or skin with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes while removing contaminated clothing and shoes. Wash clothing before reuse. In all cases, get medical attention.
Product Use:
Laboratory Reagent.
Revision Information:
MSDS Section(s) changed since last revision of document include: 14.
Disclaimer:
************************************************************************************************
Mallinckrodt Baker, Inc. provides the information contained herein in good faith but makes no representation as to its comprehensiveness or accuracy. This document is intended only as a guide to the appropriate precautionary handling of the material by a properly trained person using this product. Individuals receiving the information must exercise their independent judgment in determining its appropriateness for a particular purpose. MALLINCKRODT BAKER, INC. MAKES NO REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE WITH RESPECT TO THE INFORMATION SET FORTH HEREIN OR THE PRODUCT TO WHICH THE INFORMATION REFERS. ACCORDINGLY, MALLINCKRODT BAKER, INC. WILL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR DAMAGES RESULTING FROM USE OF OR RELIANCE UPON THIS INFORMATION.
************************************************************************************************
Prepared by: Environmental Health & Safety
Phone Number: (314) 654-1600 (U.S.A.)


46 posted on 04/18/2008 1:14:36 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: untrained skeptic

And besides, they were just following orders.


47 posted on 04/18/2008 1:15:10 PM PDT by mgstarr ("Some of us drink because we're not poets." Arthur (1981))
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To: trumandogz
All the Davidians had to to was to leave the compound as some of them did between 2/29 and 4/19. However, they choose to stay even after the cult leaders set the compound on fire.

There were many innocent children, all the way down to infants in the compound. If the government believed Koresh was so dangerous then plausibly many people inside might have been hostages in one way or another. Any plans should have been focused around saving the children. The plan they came up with was brain-dead.

48 posted on 04/18/2008 1:15:11 PM PDT by Jack Black
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: trumandogz
All the Davidians had to to was to leave the compound as some of them did between 2/29 and 4/19. However, they choose to stay even after the cult leaders set the compound on fire.

There were many innocent children, all the way down to infants in the compound. If the government believed Koresh was so dangerous then plausibly many people inside might have been hostages in one way or another. Any plans should have been focused around saving the children. The plan they came up with was brain-dead.

49 posted on 04/18/2008 1:15:21 PM PDT by Jack Black
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To: SargeK

“The doubling-over backward is likely an artifact of burning. The muscles contract, and the back muscles are far more massive than the abdominal muscles, and so the distortion.”

Possible, in the report I read the authors attributed the death to the chemicals and not to fire. I don’t remember who the author was but it was a credible source. Certainly NOT worldnetdaily.

“That having been said, it still would have been unbearable to be a child exposed to that much gas.”

They found the gas in the child lungs there were pretty sure she was alive up until this point. I believe she was 8 or 10 years old.


50 posted on 04/18/2008 1:17:24 PM PDT by driftdiver
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