Tancredo to pope: Stop promoting amnesty

World Net Daily ^ | April 18, 2008 | unknown

[ovrtaxt]

Rep. Tom Tancredo – who vied for the Republican presidential nomination to make illegal immigration a priority issue – suggested in a House speech yesterday that Pope Benedict XVI is encouraging Latin Americans to come to the U.S. to bolster flagging membership in the Catholic Church.

[ovrtaxt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHyfX7updYQ

Clicky!

[The_Republican]

Quote:

The pontiff, asked by reporters on his flight to the U.S. Tuesday if he would address Hispanic immigration, said the U.S. must do "everything possible to fight ... all forms of violence so that immigrants may lead dignified lives."

If these exact words had come out of McCain's mouth........FR would have melted due to angry posts.

[aft_lizard]

As we should, the Pope isnt running for President however.

[RepublitarianRoger2]

I’m sure Tancredo will get a ton of flak for this, but he’s right.

[Will88]

Thanks to Tom Tancredo. Somebody had to say it. On this subject, the Pope’s time would be better spent on a trip to the Latin countries where he’d insist on needed reforms and an end to the widespread corruption in the police forces and throughout their governments.

Tell those few corrupt oligarchs to start spreading their nations’ wealth around.

[1rudeboy]

I don't think that's what set Rep Tancredo off. I'd like to see why he thinks the Pope "added his voice to the open borders lobby by encouraging the president to give the 20 to 30 million illegal aliens in this country a free pass to stay here."

I'm not saying that he di or he didn't. I just don't know, and no one appears to be saying what actually happened.

[politicalwit]

MR. POPE.....TEAR DOWN THE VATICAN WALL.

[frankjr]

Pope to Tancredo: “Who are you? Security!”

[ovrtaxt]

Well said. Addressing Latin American corruption would do more to fix the “violence and indignity” the Pope speaks of.

[ElkGroveDan]

Pope Benedict XVI is encouraging Latin Americans to come to the U.S. to bolster flagging membership in the Catholic Church.

That is an idiotic statement. If they are Catholics in Mexico then they are Catholics wherever they go.

[ovrtaxt]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/04/16/20080416pope-migrants0416.html

[ovrtaxt]

They’re POOR Catholics in Mexico. Tithes and offerings in the US are much healthier.

Just saying.

[1rudeboy]

I was looking more for where the Pope told President Bush to support amnesty, but thanks.

[eleni121]

Tancredo is right. The pope is wrong and pandering to the Latin Americans.

[mimaw]

Such a nasty little man. It’s no wonder he did so poorly in his pathetic run for the nomination. He’s a big *

[buccaneer81]

Such a nasty little man. It’s no wonder he did so poorly in his pathetic run for the nomination. He’s a big *

Is that you, Dane? Multiple screen names are bad form you know.

[SoCalPol]

Pope Benedict XVI: ‘The fundamental solution... that there is no longer any need to immigrate’
National Catholic Reporter ^ | 4/15/2008

Benedict XVI:

It seems to me that we have to distinguish between measures to be taken immediately, and longer-term solutions. The fundamental solution [would be] that there is no longer any need to immigrate, that there are sufficient opportunities for work and a sufficient social fabric that no one any longer feels the need to immigrate. We all have to work for this objective, that social development is sufficient so that citizens are able to contribute to their own future.

Sounds like something Tanc could agree with
(It also puts the ball in Mexico’s court)

[Vigilanteman]

Well, one way to fight violence would be to deport the gang-bangers, but McCain voted against that proposal.

Here are the Senators who voted against the Cornyn amendment , which would have established a permanent bar for gang members, terrorists, and other criminals looking to snag a shamnesty visa. Republicans underlined:

Another way to interpret the Pope's remark is that we should give illegal aliens a nice, peaceful ride home so as to avoid violence in this country bu those reaching for the bottom rungs of the economic ladder.

[fantom]

Lets face it . The seats are empty . La is a huge market and it is in near collapse . The scandals have done major damage. Mahoney and the rest of the gasbags are in no position to mount the high horse. As in all matters , the rich and well seated never face the blow-back from their fetishes. Just like all of the border pimps , they need the bodies , who can bring the cash.

[mimaw]

huh?

[BGHater]

Nasty, hardly.

Any foreign leader, aka the Pope, can go away. I don’t give a dam what some foreign leader tells me, or tells what our country should do.

America, is the most generous country. Especially when it comes to immigration and welfare.

[FreeReign]

That is an idiotic statement. If they are Catholics in Mexico then they are Catholics wherever they go.

Here's another idiotic statement from the article.

"There is definitely a particular interest on the part of the Catholic Church that derives from the fact that the majority of illegal immigration into the country is from Catholic countries," Martin said. "It helps fill the pews, it helps fill the coffers, it helps fill the recruits to the priesthood."

[buccaneer81]

huh?

Are you not ripping Tancredo as a "nasty little man?" I consider him a patriot.

And as a Catholic who supports quite a few of the Pope's opinions, I am offended as an American that he may even TRY to dictate our immigration policies.

[mimaw]

The Pope is not a foreign leader. He is the leader of the Roman Catholic Church.

[vox_freedom]

I’m sure Tancredo will get a ton of flak for this, but he’s right.

Pope Benedict XVI said, "everything possible to fight ... all forms of violence so that immigrants may lead dignified lives."

So you -- and Tancredo -- don't think that immigrants should be protected from violence and allowed to live "dignified lives"? If you don't, you are both wrong.

[RepublitarianRoger2]

Sorry, but any post that amounts to nothing more than an argumentum ad hominem doesn’t carry any weight with me.

[mimaw]

Tancredo is a nasty little man and a one note Charlie. He's a bore.

[buccaneer81]

The Pope is not a foreign leader.

Read a book. Vatican City is the world's smallest sovereign nation at 108 acres. It is recognized diplomatically by 141 nations. The Pope is the head of state.

I reiterate: I am a Catholic.

[buccaneer81]

He's a bore.

Indeed? From your posts, all I can assume is that you are frighteningly ignorant.

[beezdotcom]

So you -- and Tancredo -- don't think that immigrants should be protected from violence and allowed to live "dignified lives"? If you don't, you are both wrong.

For ILLEGAL immigrants, that protection is best achieved by discouraging them from breaking those laws that make them easy targets of coyotes and cheap-labor scofflaws.

[mimaw]

The Pope is not a political leader. Shots taken at the Pope by a disgruntled ex Catholic or anti Catholics hold no water with me.

[buccaneer81]

The Pope is not a political leader.

LOL! Really? Perhaps you should pose that position to former General Jaruzwelski of Poland (1980-1982), or Soviet presidents Brehznev, Andropov, Cherneko and Gorbachev.

As I said before, read a book. You're making a fool of yourself here.

[AHerald]

And when the Church, as she does, similarly promotes just immigration policies for Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, and so on, what venal self-interested motivation would Tancredo accuse the Church of then?

The Church holds these teachings for all immigrants everywhere, regardless of their faith.

Tancredo and all who raise this charge against the Church are spectacularly ignorant of Church history and teaching on this subject. The issue, from the view of the Church, is the human dignity and social justice due to all men, not the Catholicity of immigrants.

[puppypusher]

The Pope Is also the head of a State.That state is Vatican City.The U.S. Recognizes the Vatican the same way we recognizes any foreign country.The Pope is their Head of State.

[Regulator]

Gotta luv Tommy

He's fearless

[buccaneer81]

Tancredo and all who raise this charge against the Church are spectacularly ignorant of Church history and teaching on this subject.

The Church is spectacularly ignorant of America and freedom as we accept it.

I speak as a Catholic.

[FreeReign]

For ILLEGAL immigrants, that protection is best achieved by discouraging them from breaking those laws that make them easy targets of coyotes and cheap-labor scofflaws.

Ironically, from the article, the Pope didn't mention "illegal" immigrants.

WND:The pontiff, asked by reporters on his flight to the U.S. Tuesday if he would address Hispanic immigration, said the U.S. must do "everything possible to fight ... all forms of violence so that immigrants may lead dignified lives." Tancredo also took exception to the pope telling U.S. bishops Wednesday in Washington, "I want to encourage you and your communities to continue to welcome the immigrants who join your ranks today, to share their joys and hopes, to support them in their sorrows and trials and to help them flourish in their new home."

[gidget7]

Thank you! Yes the Pope talked about immigration, but it is only logical that every latin American resident can't be accommodated by the US. He is a brilliant man, and I doubt he meant that. He spoke of many countries who have immigrated here, as well. And I believe he meant LEGAL immigration. As for bringing Catholics in from those countries, they have Churches in all of them, predominately Catholic. And most of them are far more strict about Church doctrine than the US Churches are, as a whole.

[FreeReign]

The Church is spectacularly ignorant of America and freedom as we accept it.

Got quotes that support your point?

[Cyropaedia]

We do have an official Ambassadorship to the Vatican.

[beezdotcom]

The Pope is not a foreign leader. He is the leader of the Roman Catholic Church.

Not the direction you want to take that argument...because in that case, I think he has even LESS business mucking around in the immigration policies of a sovereign nation that is not a satellite of the Vatican....especially since to do anything EXCEPT staunch the flow of illegal immigration merely continues the victimization of both those immigrants and the country they overrun.

[vox_freedom]

Well, yeah.
But what about Tancredo's comments and Pope Benedict's actual quote?

[mollynme]

MR. POPE.....TEAR DOWN THE VATICAN WALL.

He seems to be in favor of us tearing down our border wall.

[Irish Rose]

Save your ammunition, Tancredo. For the first thing, the Pope has no power over our policy, and even his opinion doesn’t have much influence. The Vatican has opposed the Iraq war, too; look how influential that was.

For the second...he’s the Pope. Pick your immigration fights with someone else. How much traction is your policy going to get from picking on the Pope?

[buccaneer81]

Got quotes that support your point?

Nope. I have 44 years of lifetime experience (as a Catholic) that has seen The Church blame America for

1) The fight against foreign enemies (the Soviet Union excepted.)

2)Immigration policies expounded buy every Pope in my lifetime ( They don't have to put up with illegals demanding their "rights" in St. Peter's Square.)

3) That we, as the "richest" nation on Earth, exploit all third world countries (as if feeding and educating them is exploitation.)

4)America is destroying the plant through "climate change".

[beezdotcom]

Ironically, from the article, the Pope didn't mention "illegal" immigrants.

Neither does the major media, most of the time. I guess I'll just have to trust you that in the Pope's case, the omission wasn't a value judgment.

So then, are you of the opinion that, by NOT saying anything about illegal immigration, that the Pope is against illegal immigration? That would be a welcome development.

[buccaneer81]

Sorry.

Buy=by

plant =planet.

[RepublitarianRoger2]

Of course I object to real violence. That’s a given.

You are clearly missing the main points of Tancredo’s objection to the Pope’s comments.

To start, let us consider the second part of the Pope’s statement, rather than focusing on the first: “so that immigrants may lead dignified lives.” The Pope knows that illegal immigration is a hot button issue in the US. But he did not delineate between legal and illegal immigration in his comments.

Now on to the first part: “all forms of violence.” The inference can be made that, in the Pope’s view, any action such as denial of benefits, prosecution, or deportation, amounts to a form of violence. I think that it could very easily be interpreted in this way [see below for more evidence as to why], and I believe that this is the way Tancredo interpreted it.

So now, the statement in its entirety: “The US must do everything possible to fight all forms of violence so that immigrants may lead dignified lives.” Notice that this protection from violence extends only to immigrants. The Pope did not say that the US must do everything in its power to protect ALL of its CITIZENS from violence. Nope, just the immigrants.

Why did the Pope state it in this manner? Because he was directly addressing the United States’ immigration policy, that’s why. And because the Pope has been repeatedly pushing the issue during meetings with Bush since he took residence in the Vatican. Other Bishops below him also have been pushing the issue. They all want a more OPEN immigration policy.

Tancredo knows that that was the true thrust of the Pope’s statement — and that it was NOT just an innocent, innocuous general plea for people to be able to lead “dignified lives” without “violence” — and therefore he called the Pope on it.

Also, the phrase “dignified lives” itself is not further defined — and Tom Tancredo knows that for the Pope, one contingency of an immigrants’ living a “dignified life” — whether that immigrant is here illegally or not — is to be allowed to continue to live that life in the US. Otherwise the “violence” is present and the “dignity” is lost.

Tancredo knew the history of the Pope’s meetings with Bush and of His Holiness’s push for a more open border policy, and Tom called him on it. Good for him, I say.

[avg_freeper]

What was actually said (for those who care about such things):

Lombardi:: Thank you, Your Holiness. Another theme upon which we had many questions from our colleagues was that of immigration, reflecting the growing presence of Hispanics in the society of the United States. We’ll have a question from our colleague Andres Beltramo, from the Notimex agency in Mexico.

Beltramo: I’ll ask the question in Italian, but we would love to have just a greeting in Spanish. With the enormous growth in the Hispanic presence, the Catholic church in the United States is becoming steadily more bilingual and bicultural. Yet there’s also a growing “anti-immigrant” movement in America. Do you intend to invite the United States to welcome immigrants well, many of whom are Catholic?

Benedict XVI:
Unfortunately I’m not ready to speak in Spanish, but I offer a greeting and blessing for all the Spanish-speakers! Certainly I’ll talk about this subject. I recent had the ad limina visit from the bishops of Central America, also South America. I saw the scope of this problem, above all the grave problem of the separation of families. This is truly dangerous for the social, human and moral fabric of these countries.

It seems to me that we have to distinguish between measures to be taken immediately, and longer-term solutions. The fundamental solution [would be] that there is no longer any need to immigrate, that there are sufficient opportunities for work and a sufficient social fabric that no one any longer feels the need to immigrate. We all have to work for this objective, that social development is sufficient so that citizens are able to contribute to their own future.

On this point, I want to speak with the President, because above all the United States must help countries develop themselves. Doing so is in the interests of everyone, not just this country but the whole world, including the United States.

In the short term, it’s very important above all to help the families. This is the primary objective, to ensure that families are protected, not destroyed. Whatever can be done, must be done. Naturally, we have to do whatever’s possible against economic insecurity, against all the forms of violence, so that they can have a worthy life.

I’d like also to say that although there are many problems, so much suffering, there’s also much hospitality [in America.] I know that the bishops’ conference in America collaborates a great deal with the Latin American bishops’ conference. Together they work to help priests, laity and so on. With so many painful things, it’s also important not to forget much good and many positive actions.

A link to the transcript

[beezdotcom]

But what about Tancredo's comments and Pope Benedict's actual quote?

If you're insisting to me that the Pope hasn't simply mirrored the major media's tendency to omit the word "illegal" when discussing illegal immigration, and if the "welcome the immigrants" wasn't in any way related to amnesty, and if instead, the Pope was not attempting to make any comment at all about our policies on illegal immigration - well, sure if all those 'ifs' were true, and if Tom had absolutely no other reason to think otherwise, you could make the case that Tom was overreacting.

However, I'd like to consult an English bookie about the odds on all of that before I concede all those 'ifs'...so let me get back to you.


The alternative is to assume that the Pope was talking solely about legal immigration (and too naive to realize that illegal immigration is such a hot-button issue that any statement on immigration is going to be parsed for its relevance to illegal immigration)...whereupon I would respond to the Pope's comments thusly: "Duh."