Battle to retake Basra was 'complete disaster'

Telegraph (UK) ^ | 12:34am BST 20/04/2008 | Sean Rayment, Defence Correspondent

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

The British-trained Iraqi Army's attempt to retake Basra from militiamen was an "unmitigated disaster at every level", British commanders have disclosed.

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  Senior sources have said that the mission was undermined by incompetent officers and untrained troops who were sent into battle with inadequate supplies of food, water and ammunition.

  	Iraqi soldiers at the Divisional Training Centre outside Basra

  They said the failure had delayed the British withdrawal by "many months".
  
  Their comments came as the Iraqi army, this time directly supported by American and British forces, began a second operation in Basra in an attempt to find insurgent weapons caches.
  
  The push, which was met with fierce resistance, took place in the Hayania district of the city, where there were clashes two weeks ago.

  In the first operation, it is understood that one Iraqi brigade became a "busted flush" after 1,200 of its soldiers deserted.

  At one stage during the battle, stories were circulating at the British headquarters that Iraqi troops were demanding food and water from coalition forces at gunpoint. "It was an unmitigated disaster at every level," an officer said.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Not sure I believe this report....

[snarks_when_bored]

The repeated Israeli victories of years past (leaving aside last year’s Lebanon crap) over ‘vast Arab armies’ are looking less and less amazing every day, I fear.

[GOP_Party_Animal]

At one stage during the battle, stories were circulating at the British headquarters that Iraqi troops were demanding food and water from coalition forces at gunpoint.

I guess rumor and falsehood counts as reporting from this media outlet.

[doc1019]

Now which is it … we kicked arse in Basra or we didn’t? Conflicting news reports. ????

[SunTzuWu]

Kind of opposite to the story you posted here. The Telegraph (UK) seems to be a lot like Reuters in their reliability.

[skinkinthegrass]

...wasn't there a story; week/two weeks ago, how the USmil saved this battle from being lost?

[skinkinthegrass]

thanks, for the illumination.

[Bahbah]

Not sure I believe this report....

I'm pretty sure that I don't.

[navyguy]

The Telegraph is a blatantly Left wing publication. They’ll say ANYTHING to help the enemy.

[Chgogal]

I don't want to be a Brit basher, but it always bothered me that it took Britain almost as long to take Basra as it took for the US to get to Baghdad. I really don't take too much stock on any criticism from the British media on this. Some of the neighborhoods of Basra will have to be won block by block.

[Cicero]

I don’t think I believe it.

What’s more, although the British military is certainly competent, from what I understand they held back from doing anything in their area for the past several years, which is one reason why there’s a problem now.

The last thing they would want to admit is that the Iraqi army, imperfect as it is, accomplished something they never even tried.

[Selmore]

Basra was handed back to Iraqi control last year after the Army withdrew from its last military base in the city.

Withdrew?? When I read about it last year I thought it was a retreat.

[golfisnr1]

This is total BS. A terrible hit piece.

[piytar]

“We” were in a support role. Measured in terms of a US or UK miltary op, it was a train wreck. Measured in terms of a fledgling Iraqi Army with troops and officers that wouldn’t even be allowed in a US or UK force as janitors, it was a big win, if severely flawed from a modern ops perspective.

[denydenydeny]

A little reading between the lines is necessary. The reason the British are whining to the press (and that's all this article is) is explained in the following sentence:

They said the failure had delayed the British withdrawal by "many months".

The British have been winking at the Sadrists and the Mahdi Army in Basra for five years and have done absolutely nothing about the presence of a private army of terrorists basically running the second-largest city in Iraq. Sadr would run the city, and would keep a "peace" that would in time allow the British to leave.

Maliki's military action against Sadr destroyed the understanding that the British had reached in Basra--but it was an understanding that needed destroying.

[Uriah_lost]

Its just UK Forces brass too embarrassed to admit that the Iraqis did what they refused to do. If they’d turned the Squadies loose, the problems could have been handled long since.

[glorgau]

What a crock. It seems that there is nobody willing to put their own name on all of these accusations. Nothing but hearsay.

[icwhatudo]

LOL

The total disaster.....just won.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2004190/posts

[golfisnr1]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/world/middleeast/20iraq.html?_r=1&ref=world&oref=slogin

[Jeff Chandler]

>>.The total disaster.....just won.<<

Don’t make Ernie sad.

[El Sordo]

Why Arabs Lose Wars: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/740513/posts

[Dr.Zoidberg]

The repeated Israeli victories of years past (leaving aside last year’s Lebanon crap) over ‘vast Arab armies’ are looking less and less amazing every day, I fear.

In case you missed it when it was posted here before. And my apologies to previous poster since I can't recall who it was.

Why Arabs Lose Wars.

http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/AD_Issues/amdipl_17/articles/deatkine_arabs1.html"

A very informative read.

[Dr.Zoidberg]

You beat me while I was searching for it.

=-p~~~

[Fred Nerks]

Your view: Is now the time to pull British troops out of Iraq?

From the comments section:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/04/17/view18.xml

“...remember when the world was round and there were 200,000 more people on the planet and the twin towers restaurants were a nice place to have lunch and Iraq was a friend of America. Bin laden construction was doing business with Bush oil and everything was cool.

Posted by robin hood on April 19, 2008 6:28 AM

[piytar]

From your article: “Paul M. Belbutowski, a scholar and former member of the U.S. Delta Force, succinctly stated a deficiency in our own military education system: “Culture, comprised of all that is vague and intangible, is not generally integrated into strategic planning except at the most superficial level.””

In short, this highlights how Gen. Patreaus has been so successful. He understood the Iraqi tribal culture and used it to his advantage. Well, that, and the overwhelming superiority of the weaponry, airpower, and troops underhis command...

[snarks_when_bored]

I’ve not seen that...I’ll take a look at a little later. Thanks...

[snarks_when_bored]

Thanks...I’ll look at that a little later...

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

I'm not sad just curious about the report.....This might have the basis for what was going on....From the NY Times article ...link at post # 20...FR thread at post #19.

**************************EXCERPT ***************************

The American military said in a statement that British and American military training teams were working alongside Iraqi soldiers and that the Iraqi military consulted with senior British and American officers before undertaking this stage in the battle.

The consultation is a contrast to the early days of the Basra operation, personally led by Mr. Maliki, when Iraqi troops moved in on Basra, with little prior consultation with either the Americans the British, the coalition troops who have a base in the area. Later, members of Mr. Maliki’s inner circle conceded that they had a communications problem, especially with the British, that needed to be rectified.

[org.whodat]

Not sure I believe this report....

Hell it's getting to the point were you can not believe any report, two many half-as+ web sites where people claim they are reporting facts as fast as they can make them up.

[AmericanVictory]

As we have pointed out repeatedly for years there will be no victory until we see leadership that takes us off the ethanol boodoggle and the dance with the windmills in your car crowd and takes the oil weapon away from the Supreme Council of Religious Fanatics by breakthroughs in oil production, refining and fuel that are now blocked a la the descriptions of George Gilder years ago.

We can actual solve the problem that enables the war against us or we can continue to subsidize the problems and the enemy. We see no indication that any one in either party intends to do this.

[Fee]

I understand that Maliki would not deal with the British chain of command, and will meet only with US commanders. The Brits were never popular nor do they know how to be popular in the ME givened their legacy. The last time the Brits were in Iraq was WWI, they threw out the Turks, and manage to insult every tribal leader in Iraq which resulted in the Iraqis helping the Turks to retake Iraq. The Brit force was cut off and surrounded by Turk/Iraqi tribal forces and almost starved to death. At least the provincial Americans (the cowboy, meat and potato, beer drinking and hard liquour types) managed to build coalitions with the various tribal leaders and learned to use force judicially until a US proxy force was formed to do the future fighting. Battle for Basra is the shakedown run for the US trained Iraqi Army. We will simply adjust the training and doctrine, and the Iraqi Army will go into battle again, and again, and again. Each time the Iraqi Army will flush out their idiots, promote the deserving ones and will become a good fighting force.

[MinorityRepublican]

I’m surprised that weak PM is still the leader of Israel after Lebanon debacle back in ‘06.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

I like this comment:

**************************************EXCERPT******************************

This message is for:
-Pacifists
-Conspiracy Theorists (Tin-Foil Hat)
-Saddam Apologists
-United Nations Admirers

Nobody has treated international law with such disdain as Saddam Hussain. His affiliation with terrorist groups, the annexation of Kuwait, the breaking of the non-proliferation treaty by developing/using chemical weapons and the numerours acts of genocide not only make the Iraq War 'legal' but our moral obligation.

In an age of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons we cannot let facistic, barbaric, totalitarian, genocidal, racist lunatics run riot. So what about North Korea, Iran or even zimbabwe? We will come around to all of them, let them get hot under collar in the mean time.

As for the UN, just look at its Human Rights Council and gaze in shock at the names you see. This is an instituion which failed to intervene appropriately in Rwanda, Congo, Darfur and Somalia which collectively totals millions of deaths.

If the whole world was full of pacifists, it would only take a small group with nuclear weapons to obliterate human civilisation so we discard this ideology. Furthermore there is only weakness in moral-relativism, the west is the only place where dreams of ordinary human being can be realised.

Lastly, pragmaticism and diplomacy are blunt weapons against those who lack rationale and reason. History shows this.

Our troops should stay, they are the horsemen of the free world, our heroes and our saviours from corrupt dictators and theocrats.


Posted by Sundip Tailor on April 19, 2008 12:32 AM

[piytar]

Yup, barring a traitorous demscum victory in Nov and a subsequent betrayal of Iraq to help the demscums’ jihadist allies, Iraq will have the best military in the region besides Israel’s and possibly Turkey’s. In three years, that is...

[Fred Nerks]

As for the UN, just look at its Human Rights Council and gaze in shock at the names you see. This is an instituion which failed to intervene appropriately in Rwanda, Congo, Darfur and Somalia which collectively totals millions of deaths.

He's got it! The stinking UN is nothing but a front for the arab block and a bunch of marxist dictators...that we have been conned into PAYING FOR!

[PotatoHeadMick]

“The Telegraph is a blatantly Left wing publication.”

No, it’s not. It’s very conservative.

[endthematrix]

A very true analysis.

[Allegra]

Not sure I believe this report....

I'm very sure that I don't.

[BIGLOOK]

Aloha Ernest,

I've heard so many reports on Basra and Mukti al Sadr from the MSM that I believe all Sadr has left in his bag of tricks is the manipulation of the media. This on a daily basis.

Seems he's in self appointed exile and not really in control of events beyond press releases.

[bpjam]

are we sure that this isn’t a two or three year old story somehow? It seems to have nothing in common with the recent butt kicking of Sadr happening in Basra this month. Of course, there are US troops assisting and supervising in Basra now and not Brits.

Something about this doesn’t add up at all. But considering that every media source in the UK is desparate to get the Brit troops out of Iraq regardless of the reason, I would expect them to spin anything to the point of making up events entirely.

[JHBowden]

Part of me doesn’t like the idea of training an Iraqi army. This will bite us and Israel in the ass down the road if we play our cards wrong.

And whyTF is Mookie still alive?

[Jabba the Nutt]

The battle to re-take Basra was a complete disaster in every way but one . . . . . it succeeded.

In fact, I'd love to personally shake Prime Minister Maliki's hand and congratulate him on having the balls to order the assault, to go down to Basra a head of time to lead from the front and most importantly, to have made this decision on his own, without approval or knowledge of the Americans. Maliki proved that he's in charge. He's taking back his country from the terrorists, the Baathists, the Sunni insurgents and the Shia militias. Maliki is carrying out his mandate to set up a functioning, united Iraq, an Iraq that determines its own future and one free of Iranian interference. That's what his voters want and that's what they'll get.

I realize this creates another headache for General Petraeus, but that's the price of having friends to work with.

[DJ Elliott]

As I said elsewhere...

Spin job.
And like most political spin it has some truth.

1. 52nd IA Bde should never have been fielded that soon and it broke.

2. The 1300 was not all IA, it was ISF. 1300 out of 30,000.

3. It was about 500 IA from the green 52nd Bde (3000). About 3 percent of the IA there at that point and all from the greenest Bde in the IA at the time.

4. Just under 800 Police, almost all local or about 4 percent.

5. Surprisingly, concidering the INP’s reputation, only 44 from the INP’s 1000 man BPPF deserted.

6. What is not mentioned is what was done when it became apparent they had bit off too much. The Iraqis moved an entire division into Basrah within five days.
- 1st IA Div HQ from Anbar.
- 3rd IA Bde from Diyala.
- half of 1st IA Bde from Anbar.
- 14th IA Bde from Salahadin.
- Karbala IP Emergency Response Bde.
- INP ERU Bn (equivalent to FBI HRT).
- Hillah SWAT Bn.

That is difficult for any force.

The last time the US did a comparable move (without any prior planning), the 82nd and 101st were eating at Burger King and only had their personal ammo for the two weeks it took for the USMC’s MPS equipment and ammo to arrive for the Army to borrow from (Saudi-1990)...

[papasmurf]

BS.

Hey, Telegraph..stuff it!

[papasmurf]

Nice post, well done.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Thanks...

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Sounds like they do have something beyond just personnel...that story needs to be told.

But I won't check the NY Times for it any time soon.

[VeniVidiVici]

And don’t look in any of the Brit rags either.

[DGHoodini]

The Iraqi Army just finished clearing out the last criminal
strongholds in Basra. The Iraqi Army is in complete control of ALL of Basrah, except foe some small arms fire in a few neighborhoods where they are going through, house by house. Most of rrhe criminal gangs have fled Basta, and are likely fleeing north, hoping to join up in Sadr City. Those forces no longer needed to hold Basra, I expect will be chasing after them, all the way north.

“We fired our guns and the British kept a’comin.
There wasn’t nigh as many as there was a while ago.
We fired once more and they began to runnin’
down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.”