Posted on 05/07/2008 8:37:27 AM PDT by LikeLight
Are you a joyful bride-to-be? An eager (or nervous!) groom? Perhaps you have a son or daughter getting married this spring or summer? Perhaps a beloved grandchild? Or maybe a lifelong friend? The peak of wedding season is arriving and many of us have a special acquaintance or family member ready to “tie the knot” in a beautiful marriage ceremony of thrilling romance and holy commitment.
So what does any of this have to do with the law? Why am I raising the subject of weddings in my Christian legal column? I’m writing to brides and grooms and those close to them because I want to encourage you to build the strongest possible marriage from the beginning, a marriage built on the solid foundation of God and His Word. And I’m writing because I want to encourage you not to weaken or undermine that sacred foundation by relying on destructive legal “worldly wisdom” that commonly advises you not to get married without first entering a pre-nuptial agreement.
[snip]
In an era of frequent marital break-ups and complex family structures, our cynical culture and most secular lawyers portray anyone getting married without a pre-nup as either foolish or naive. Before the wedding day, we are warned, wise couples should agree in writing what will happen if and when the marriage dissolves. But is there something wrong with this pessimistic advice? Should Christians begin their sacred marriage relationship as if it were just another business deal? Is it healthy for a husband and wife to be forced into negotiating against one another as legal adversaries, each with their own attorneys, in the days or weeks before they are joined as “one flesh” in the eyes of God?
[snip]
(Excerpt) Read more at goodnewsdaily.net ...
Here's something from the Catholic Diocese of Pittsburgh. I just grabbed it because it came up high in the google, and it's generally representative of what I've learned myself:
http://www.diopitt.org/serves_tribunal_canon.php
Here's a key excerpt:
“PRENUPTIAL AGREEMENTS
“The use of prenuptial agreements has become much more commonplace in recent years. The presence of a prenuptial agreement presents an immediate concern in the marriage preparation process. It is suggested that the priest or deacon ask the couple about the possible presence of a prenuptial agreement at the initial meeting along with the questions about the possible presence of a prior marriage. The couple needs to understand that a prenuptial agreement may be an obstacle to a marriage in the Catholic Church. A legal document that protects the separate assets of the prospective spouses may well undermine the community of life that is essential to a marriage and may render it invalid.
“The case of a widow and widower who intend only to protect the natural right to inheritance of children of their first marriage may be an exception. This is clear if the prenuptial agreement provides for the disposition of the property in case of death rather than divorce. A prenuptial agreement that provides protection in the case of divorce may very well imply an exclusion of the permanence of marriage and, consequently, invalidate marital consent. In cases where one party has considerably more assets than the other and those assets are protected from the future spouse with no third party being benefited (such as elderly parents who spent their lives building a family business) it is hard to see how the couple is intending the community of life that is true marriage.
“The priest or deacon must not presume that any prenuptial agreement is acceptable. Before wedding plans can go forward, a copy of the prenuptial agreement needs to be sent to the Department for Canon and Civil Law Services for evaluation. The couple must be informed that the wedding plans are on hold until a determination is made as to whether the prenuptial agreement in question would render the marriage invalid. If it is determined that the prenuptial agreement is invalidating, the couple must rescind the agreement before plans for a Catholic wedding can resume.”
The general principle is that anything that envisions the “end” of a marriage through divorce suggests that the parties don't really mean “till death do us part,” and that mental reservation invalidates the marriage.
sitetest
Bravo!My wife and I got married agreeing that failure was not an option.Marriage can be a job sometimes,you have to be willing to work at it.
There's a great quote from someone... "A man is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose" - - - I think you get that. I think you're living that. Peace and blessings to you and your wife. She's blessed.
I’m glad to see someone else looked it up for you! Steve and I were told about it when we did our marriage prep, but I didn’t have the canon law reference.
As Prokopton’s post at 39 points out, pre-nuptials aren't automatically invalidating, but as my post at 41 points out, they are viewed with suspicion, and the particulars of them can make it impossible to validly contract a Catholic marriage.
Use of pre-nups to protect the inheritance rights of children IN THE EVENT OF ONE'S DEATH are not generally invalidating. However, use of pre-nups to guard assets IN THE EVENT OF DIVORCE are invalidating. That's because entering into a pre-nup that specifically deals with what happens in the event of divorce is a mental reservation about the indissolubility of marriage through divorce.
sitetest
It's amazing to me, as an Evangelical Protestant, how so many of the things I've "discovered" about the integration of Christianity and law turn out to be already well-known to Catholic thinkers. You have such a rich tradition of thoughtfully wrestling with these thorny matters. Thank you.
You kind of have to take the good with the bad anymore. Since I married the last perfect one.
Gotta go get lunch... Keep the fantastic conversation going... Thanks...
“Don’t get married. It is nearly impossible to tell the good ones from the bad ones anymore.”
Sadly, I have to agree with you. (FReeperettes excluded of course.) I am finding that as my assets grow, my willingness to enter marriage is diminished.
If he took passage on a ship with two separate watertight compartments, I suppose he'd call the designer and hector him about the trust issues with his engineering.
Sheesh.
“Nope, Dave Ramsey says that Pre-Nuptuals are a symptom of distrust - a very bad sign.”
For the vast majority, you are correct. In some rare instances, I have heard him support a pre-nup. Those rare instances involved a large amount of wealth by either the bride or groom.
Your (excellent) attitude is probably why you are still successfully married.
She probably has a good attitude, too.
“BTW, as to marriage statistics: claiming you are Christian doesn’t make you so! I’m not technically a Christian, but I would be willing to bet that the way we live our lives is more aligned with traditional Christianity than most of the people on the street who claim they are. Just as saying that you are a Republican doesn’t make you a conservative.”
Actually, many unbelievers get along with their spouses very well, much better often than when one turns to Christ (and thus friction is introduced).
A person is a Christian by being born of God, not by behaviour. C.S. Lewis wrote a piece once on Dick the Nice Atheist vs. Christian Miss Bates (who had a nasty personality). He explained that Dick’e niceness was merely a product of upbringing and who knows what a monster he’ll be in a million years when God knocks the slats out from under his human bed (we will all live forever).
Miss Bates, on the other hand, “will be very nice, indeed” by the time Christ is finished with her. He started something with her and He’ll finish it (no matter what it looks like now).
Even on a human level you don’t give a rip if your neighbor’s kid has better behaviour than your own. You’ll stand by your son because he is YOURS.
None of this is to knock you, by the way. I am so glad you do have a solid marriage. I have seen so much marital disaster in my life. These are dangerous times to play romantic games in.
Even if you feel that you can fully trust your spouse-to-be, can you trust the lawyers and judges who will be involved in any divorce action?
As far as His/Her checking accounts are concerned, most of the accounts Hubby and I have are joint accounts, but when I was left a bit of money when my Mama died, he encouraged me to open my own accounts, in my own name. His thought was that, if he died suddenly, and I had no credit already in my own name, it could me more difficult for me to get it. Of course, that was before banks and organizations started sending credit card applications in the mail every other day!
But I see no problem having separate checking accounts, or even credit cards, as long as it isn't done to hide a money problem, or some other issue, on the part of either spouse. But I think it's crucial for both husband and wife to learn to handle the finances, in the event one dies unexpectedly.
In Orthodox Jewish tradition, they ALWAYS have a prenup. It’s not as technical or wordy as one a lawyer would draw up but the idea that prenup=easy divorce is flawed. The divorce rate in Orthodox Jewish communities is very, very low.
Having said that, if it’s a first marriage for both parties, why do you need a detailed pre-nup? OTOH, if one or both parties have children from a prior marriage, it would be stupid NOT to have a pre-nup for the sake of your children.
My hubby, SirKit, got into a disagreement with his older sister once, because he contends that loyalty is more important in a marriage than feelings of love, because those can wax and wane over time. Folks can get angry with each other, but knowing, for sure, that this person will not leave you, simply because you made them mad for some silly reason, is a wonderful thing. It also puts the responsibility on the two of you to make your marriage the most fun and loving it can be, since it's yours and you're stuck with it. ;o)
We're coming up on 33rd anniversary, in October, and with the youngest going off to college in September, we're looking forward to a large measure of freedom in our lives. We're certainly looking forward to all four coming home to visit from time to time, but we're not dreading the 'empty nest' at all!
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