Skip to comments.Seattle Times Editor: 'Hitler's Demands Were Not Unreasonable'
Posted on 05/16/2008 8:20:57 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY
Seattle Times editorial writer Bruce Ramsey, in an effort to defend Barack Obama against President Bushs appeasement speech, actually ends up defending Nazi Germany, Adolf Hitler, and the Anschluss (the annexation of Austria): Bush, and His Use of Appeasement.
Democrats are rebuking President Bush for saying in his speech to the Knesset, here, that to negotiate with terrorists and radicals is appeasement. The Democrats took it as a slap at Barack Obama. What bothers me is the continual reference to Hitler and his National Socialists, particularly the British and French accommodation at the Munich Conference of 1938.
What Hitler was demanding was not unreasonable. He wanted the German-speaking areas of Europe under German authority. He had just annexed Austria, which was German-speaking, without bloodshed. There were two more small pieces of Germanic territory: the free city of Danzig and the Sudetenland, a border area of what is now the Czech Republic.
We live in an era when you do not change national borders for these sorts of reasons. But in 1938 it was different. Germanys eastern and western borders had been redrawn 19 years beforeand not to its benefit. In the democracies there was some sense of guilt with how Germany had been treated after World War I. Certainly there was a memory of the Great War. In 2008, we have entirely forgotten World War I, and how utterly unlike any conception of The Good War it was. When the British let Hitler have a slice of Czechoslovakia, they were following their historical wisdom: avoid war. War produces results far more horrible than you expected. War is a bad investment. It is not glorious. Dont give anyone an excuse to start one.
The mask is finally coming off of our leftists: Will enough voters see it?
It has reached the point of no return. We are doomed to be conqured by the new facists.
Could have been authored by Pat Buchanan.
Hitler wasn’t a bad man, he was just misunderstood. /s
Ha, great tagline, so true...
I agree! This includes not letting evil people think they can defeat you. A willingness and ability to rain hellfire down on your enemies and their families and friends and neighbors (and, hell, even their pets) will make them think twice before messing with you.
Bruce Ramsey is also a pro-Palestinian Israeli hater. The Leftist anti-semites are coming out in full force for Osama Obama. These are the rest of his comments:
In a few months, in early 1939, Hitler ordered the invasion of what is now the Czech Republicthat is, territory that was not German. Then it was obvious that a deal with him was worthless. He made a promise and broke it within about six months. And so when Bush recalls the unnamed senator who, in September 1939, lamented that he had not been able to talk to Hitler, he hits an easy target. But the moment of September 1939 is nothing like today.
In September 1939, when Germany started the war, it had no just claim to any more territory. But the Palestinians who fight Israel do have a just claim to territory. We can argue what it is; we can argue about the justness of their military tactics, and so on. And the same for the Israeli side, which is equally arguable.
The step that must be taken now is for the two sides to talk, so that they can make a deal that both will accept, and that each side will enforce against its radical elements. In that context, to continually bring up Hitler, the Nazis, the Munich Conference and continually use the word appeasement, is wrong. To use those comparisons is to assert that it is morally questionable even to talk to the Palestinians. It is to give an excuse to seal them off, cast them out, to deny that they have any just claims. And they do have just claims. To compare the Palestinianswho are occupied, oppressed, denied, stepped-onwith Hitlers Germany in 1939 is incredible and ridiculous .
I would like to annex a small portion of Eastern Washington. I do not think this is an unreasonable demand and it is certainly not worth starting a war over.
It is more than a little chilling to listen to the liberals dismiss democracy. They clearly yearn for a governing elite with the power to suppress dissent.
This is the kind of thing that you read once, stop, say “Am I missing something here”, you then think that he couldn’t have possibly said what you just read, then you realize that these idiots parrot history but they HAVEN’T LEARNED ANYTHING! If their need is to say the moon is green to get Obama elected, they will do it with a smile and that confident look that would make the smarmiest used car salesman purple with envy.
Go read the comments to this tripe...here...most people are appalled....http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/edcetera/2008/05/bush_and_his_use_of_appeasemen.html
Well, except for Kristallnacht, two nights of terror and bloodshed against Jews and a signal of what was to come.
It seems that the true nazi loving nature of modern day liberals is starting to become mainstream.
Good lord. What a complete lack of dicernment and reason.
Obama the Socialist is not worth defending. Obama will be the destroyer of our Republic. He will turn America into a whining socialist commune. Already, he has sponsored a bill in Congress called bill S2433. This bill would force the U.S. to sign onto the U.N.s Millennium Declaration, which would commit us not only to banning small arms and light weapons but also to adhere to the International Criminal Court Treaty and the Kyoto Protocol. Basically it would give the UN the authority to seize all privately owned firearms, impose a 0.7% tax on our GNP, and make us conform to Al Gore’s pet project the Kyoto Treaty.
Obama is a bigger threat to the United States than bin Laden.
The writer conveniently forgets what Hitler made known to anyone who would bother to read his writing: he was bent on domination. While he used an argument that gave weak-minded politicians an excuse to point to a defensible argument, any thinking person at the time knew in his heart of hearts that this was merely the camel’s nose in the tent. Churchill rebuked Chamberlain who had returned home to popular fanfare and declared “peace in our time, peace with honor.” Churchill said “You were given the choice between war and dishonour. You chose dishonour, and you will have war.”
I have a hard time believing that an adult wrote this, let alone an editor of a major newspaper. My high school history teachers (and English teachers) would've been privately amused, before giving "it" a poor grade. Alas, we live in an era when you do not give poor grades "for these sorts of reasons." But, in 1980 "it" was different, lol.
Bruce Ramsey likely learned everything he knows in college, from left-wing professors.
And he has learned absolutely nothing since.
Stunning ignorance. Truly stunning ignorance.
For a sequel, he’ll say it’s not unreasonable for Mexico to reclaim the Southwestern US because there’s a lot of people there who speak Spanish.
They can’t follow this course and have things come out good for them. It may take some time, but they can’t do it for long.
They pick one sliver of information to try to make Hitler sound reasonable. But, Hitler was a mad man and obviously was not about to be appeased - as he did not reveal his real motives for taking over the eastern regions, and also his hatred of Jews, handicapped people, Catholic priests, non-Aryans such as Polish, any Slavs, Gypsies, and also homosexuals.
The writer is an idiot.
“It has reached the point of no return. We are doomed to be conqured by the new facists.”
I think we are doomed to dig a lot of ditches and shoot a lot of traitors.
The liberals will go to any lengths to defend their Messiah.
Jonah Goldberg just wrote a great book explaining how progressivism is American fascism.
I believe him.
Yes, it certainly is.
Negotiating with these types is not the same as negotiation with friends or even neutral parties. It is giving up something to someone who deserves nothing, in return for what should not need to be purchased.
No different than buying back, at a 'bargain price' your own property from a thief, when the proper response is taking what is rightfully yours, and leaving the thief hanging from the nearest tree.
Hitler was just looking for pretexts--if there hadn't been a German-speaking minority in Bohemia, he'd have found some other reason. The border districts are mountainous, so until the Czechs were forced to give them up, they could have made a German invasion very costly.
The French were also involved in the Munich conference.
I just read the comments
They were outstanding.
I could never top them.
I don’t know what is harder to believe, that someone
named Bruce Ramsey wrote this “think-piece” or that a Seattle newspaper published it.
I would advise everyone to read the comments, which obviously come from the last sane people in Seattle.
There are gems of wisdom and insight into the Left scattered throughout.
Springtime for Hitler and Germany.
Hitler actually comes across much the same as the radical islamists, communists, and liberals. He wants complete control, but he nibbles away at it with seemingly innocuous things first. As the appetite grows, so do the demands.
And he has learned absolutely nothing since.
okie01, thanks for the opportunity to throw out my favorite line on these types:
Educated beyond his intelligence!!
The writer in questiion works for the Seattle Times. "Idiot," therefore, is assumed; and "openly treasonous," an easy 60/40 shot. ;)
Bruce Ramsey has a long history of this kind of “attitude”
Look up someone named Garet Garrett,who vehemently opposed our going to war against the Nazis in WW2, hated FDR for it, and was part of a collective mind-set that was not much more than a hop, skip and jump away from other social phenomena of that ‘39 -’42 period like the German American Bund. They were not alone either—Joe Kennedy and Lucky Lindy, anyone? Bruce Ramsey , an apparent Libertarian, has also written/reviewed for LewRockwell.com.
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That's a recipe for disaster. Why can't libs get it through their thick skulls that evil really does exist in this world. And when one comes across evil one needs to eradicate it.
Allowing evil to fester through appeasement is like giving a terrorist a nuclear bomb in mid town Manhattan.............
If you asked anyone working at the Times, they would undoubtedly agree that Bush is worse than Hitler, proving beyond the shadow of a doubt that leftist are completely nuts.
The Seattle Slimes is hardly a "major newspaper." It survives only due to a joint operating agreement with another fishwrap, the Seattle Post-Intelligencer (what do you have after you lose intelligence? the P-U).
I terminated my subscription to the Slimes decades ago, and it has not improved since. The sooner this piece of trash goes under, the better. We'll at least save some trees... and maybe some liberals can get some honest employment. Not that such will awaken them.
(Now ask me how I REALLy feel... *\;-)
Hitler used a diabolical mixture of subversion and the threat of bloodshed to take over Austria. And the German-speaking people of Bohemia were pawns in Hitler's cynical game to destroy Czechoslovakia. The author seems to think that German-speaking people were somehow the rightful property of Hitler. Does the author really believe that since Hitler was skilful at subversion and brainwashing, that somehow made him legitimate?
There are a few sane people left in Seattle but I assure you -- not many.
If candor is a virtue, this fellow--Bruce Ramsey--must be a very virtuous guy. Of a sort, anyway.