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Seattle Times Editor: 'Hitler's Demands Were Not Unreasonable'
littlegreenfootballs.com ^ | May 16, 2008

Posted on 05/16/2008 8:20:57 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY

Seattle Times editorial writer Bruce Ramsey, in an effort to defend Barack Obama against President Bush’s “appeasement” speech, actually ends up defending Nazi Germany, Adolf Hitler, and the Anschluss (the annexation of Austria): Bush, and His Use of ‘Appeasement’.

Democrats are rebuking President Bush for saying in his speech to the Knesset, here, that to “negotiate with terrorists and radicals” is “appeasement.” The Democrats took it as a slap at Barack Obama. What bothers me is the continual reference to Hitler and his National Socialists, particularly the British and French accommodation at the Munich Conference of 1938.

What Hitler was demanding was not unreasonable. He wanted the German-speaking areas of Europe under German authority. He had just annexed Austria, which was German-speaking, without bloodshed. There were two more small pieces of Germanic territory: the free city of Danzig and the Sudetenland, a border area of what is now the Czech Republic.

We live in an era when you do not change national borders for these sorts of reasons. But in 1938 it was different. Germany’s eastern and western borders had been redrawn 19 years before—and not to its benefit. In the democracies there was some sense of guilt with how Germany had been treated after World War I. Certainly there was a memory of the “Great War.” In 2008, we have entirely forgotten World War I, and how utterly unlike any conception of “The Good War” it was. When the British let Hitler have a slice of Czechoslovakia, they were following their historical wisdom: avoid war. War produces results far more horrible than you expected. War is a bad investment. It is not glorious. Don’t give anyone an excuse to start one.

Wow.


TOPICS: Editorial
KEYWORDS: appeasement; appeasment; insane; islamicfascists; obama; presbushknesset08; seattletimes
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1 posted on 05/16/2008 8:20:57 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY
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To: sionnsar
Humiliated-nationally-by-the-Times-once-again PING.
2 posted on 05/16/2008 8:24:35 PM PDT by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle (If McCain really CAN "win without conservatives," then why do you care if I vote for him or not?)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

The mask is finally coming off of our leftists: Will enough voters see it?


3 posted on 05/16/2008 8:24:55 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (McCain could never convince me to vote for him. Only Hillary or Obama can!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

It has reached the point of no return. We are doomed to be conqured by the new facists.


4 posted on 05/16/2008 8:27:18 PM PDT by Shady (The Fairness Doctrine is ANYTHING but fair!!!!)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Could have been authored by Pat Buchanan.


5 posted on 05/16/2008 8:27:57 PM PDT by mimaw
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To: Free ThinkerNY

OMG


6 posted on 05/16/2008 8:28:12 PM PDT by Empireoftheatom48 (Tag line under construction Please watch your step, not responsible for any accidents)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Hitler wasn’t a bad man, he was just misunderstood. /s


7 posted on 05/16/2008 8:28:43 PM PDT by Ratblaster (HILLARY 08 Bring Back the Crooked Hillbillies)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Ha, great tagline, so true...


8 posted on 05/16/2008 8:28:51 PM PDT by To Hell With Poverty (Obama hates you.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
Don’t give anyone an excuse to start one (war).

I agree! This includes not letting evil people think they can defeat you. A willingness and ability to rain hellfire down on your enemies and their families and friends and neighbors (and, hell, even their pets) will make them think twice before messing with you.

9 posted on 05/16/2008 8:30:01 PM PDT by Onelifetogive (Simple-minded conservative...)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Bruce Ramsey is also a pro-Palestinian Israeli hater. The Leftist anti-semites are coming out in full force for Osama Obama. These are the rest of his comments:

In a few months, in early 1939, Hitler ordered the invasion of what is now the Czech Republic—that is, territory that was not German. Then it was obvious that a deal with him was worthless. He made a promise and broke it within about six months. And so when Bush recalls the unnamed senator who, in September 1939, lamented that he had not been able to talk to Hitler, he hits an easy target. But the moment of September 1939 is nothing like today.

In September 1939, when Germany started the war, it had no just claim to any more territory. But the Palestinians who fight Israel do have a just claim to territory. We can argue what it is; we can argue about the justness of their military tactics, and so on. And the same for the Israeli side, which is equally arguable.

The step that must be taken now is for the two sides to talk, so that they can make a deal that both will accept, and that each side will enforce against its radical elements. In that context, to continually bring up Hitler, the Nazis, the Munich Conference and continually use the word “appeasement,” is wrong. To use those comparisons is to assert that it is morally questionable even to talk to the Palestinians. It is to give an excuse to seal them off, cast them out, to deny that they have any just claims. And they do have just claims. To compare the Palestinians—who are occupied, oppressed, denied, stepped-on—with Hitler’s Germany in 1939 is incredible and ridiculous .

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/edcetera/2008/05/bush_and_his_use_of_appeasemen.html


10 posted on 05/16/2008 8:32:44 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY ((((Obama's issues would be better resolved in a psychotherapists office, than in the Oval Office))))
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To: Free ThinkerNY

I would like to annex a small portion of Eastern Washington. I do not think this is an unreasonable demand and it is certainly not worth starting a war over.


11 posted on 05/16/2008 8:33:17 PM PDT by The Lumster (USA - where the innocent have nothing to fear!)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
This editor has likely not read William L. Shirer's classic "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich". What is crystal clear to Shirer, an eye witness totally supports Bush and McCain's statements.

It is more than a little chilling to listen to the liberals dismiss democracy. They clearly yearn for a governing elite with the power to suppress dissent.

12 posted on 05/16/2008 8:33:42 PM PDT by JimSEA
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To: Free ThinkerNY

This is the kind of thing that you read once, stop, say “Am I missing something here”, you then think that he couldn’t have possibly said what you just read, then you realize that these idiots parrot history but they HAVEN’T LEARNED ANYTHING! If their need is to say the moon is green to get Obama elected, they will do it with a smile and that confident look that would make the smarmiest used car salesman purple with envy.


13 posted on 05/16/2008 8:36:15 PM PDT by SES1066 (Cycling to conserve, Conservative to save, Saving to Retire, will Retire to Cycle.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Go read the comments to this tripe...here...most people are appalled....http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/edcetera/2008/05/bush_and_his_use_of_appeasemen.html


14 posted on 05/16/2008 8:36:17 PM PDT by goodnesswins (Liberals learning curves are pretty flat,)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
He had just annexed Austria, which was German-speaking, without bloodshed

Well, except for Kristallnacht, two nights of terror and bloodshed against Jews and a signal of what was to come.

It seems that the true nazi loving nature of modern day liberals is starting to become mainstream.

15 posted on 05/16/2008 8:37:50 PM PDT by HerrBlucher (Asked on his deathbed why he was reading the bible, WC Fields replied "I'm looking for loopholes.")
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Good lord. What a complete lack of dicernment and reason.


16 posted on 05/16/2008 8:37:54 PM PDT by yldstrk (My heros have always been cowboys--Reagan and Bush)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
Is anybody really surprised that a liberal would go this far to defend another liberal?
17 posted on 05/16/2008 8:38:02 PM PDT by Reaganesque
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To: Free ThinkerNY
These people are absolutely completely insane. What's next?

I think the only reason John McCain is going to get votes from Conservatives, is that the alternative is absolutely unthinkable.

I honestly don't know what else to add. These people are just simply nuts. This is no longer an issue of policy differences, this is now an issue of sanity.
18 posted on 05/16/2008 8:38:28 PM PDT by dbehsman (The democRAT party has absolutely and completely gone insane!)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Obama the Socialist is not worth defending. Obama will be the destroyer of our Republic. He will turn America into a whining socialist commune. Already, he has sponsored a bill in Congress called bill S2433. This bill would force the U.S. to sign onto the U.N.’s Millennium Declaration, which would commit us not only to “banning small arms and light weapons” but also to adhere to the International Criminal Court Treaty and the Kyoto Protocol. Basically it would give the UN the authority to seize all privately owned firearms, impose a 0.7% tax on our GNP, and make us conform to Al Gore’s pet project the Kyoto Treaty.
Obama is a bigger threat to the United States than bin Laden.

http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/government/united_nations/news.php?q=1210170368


19 posted on 05/16/2008 8:38:45 PM PDT by BuffaloJack
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To: Free ThinkerNY

The writer conveniently forgets what Hitler made known to anyone who would bother to read his writing: he was bent on domination. While he used an argument that gave weak-minded politicians an excuse to point to a defensible argument, any thinking person at the time knew in his heart of hearts that this was merely the camel’s nose in the tent. Churchill rebuked Chamberlain who had returned home to popular fanfare and declared “peace in our time, peace with honor.” Churchill said “You were given the choice between war and dishonour. You chose dishonour, and you will have war.”


20 posted on 05/16/2008 8:39:59 PM PDT by Tennessean4Bush (An optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds. A pessimist fears this is true.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
We live in an era when you do not change national borders for these sorts of reasons. But in 1938 it was different.

I have a hard time believing that an adult wrote this, let alone an editor of a major newspaper. My high school history teachers (and English teachers) would've been privately amused, before giving "it" a poor grade. Alas, we live in an era when you do not give poor grades "for these sorts of reasons." But, in 1980 "it" was different, lol.

21 posted on 05/16/2008 8:40:37 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: JimSEA
This editor has likely not read William L. Shirer's classic "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich". What is crystal clear to Shirer, an eye witness totally supports Bush and McCain's statements.

Bruce Ramsey likely learned everything he knows in college, from left-wing professors.

And he has learned absolutely nothing since.

Stunning ignorance. Truly stunning ignorance.

22 posted on 05/16/2008 8:40:52 PM PDT by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance on Parade)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

For a sequel, he’ll say it’s not unreasonable for Mexico to reclaim the Southwestern US because there’s a lot of people there who speak Spanish.


23 posted on 05/16/2008 8:41:55 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

They can’t follow this course and have things come out good for them. It may take some time, but they can’t do it for long.


24 posted on 05/16/2008 8:42:08 PM PDT by perfect_rovian_storm
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To: Free ThinkerNY

25 posted on 05/16/2008 8:42:49 PM PDT by Bobalu (What do I know, I'm a Typical White Guy)
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To: KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle

They pick one sliver of information to try to make Hitler sound reasonable. But, Hitler was a mad man and obviously was not about to be appeased - as he did not reveal his real motives for taking over the eastern regions, and also his hatred of Jews, handicapped people, Catholic priests, non-Aryans such as Polish, any Slavs, Gypsies, and also homosexuals.

The writer is an idiot.


26 posted on 05/16/2008 8:44:34 PM PDT by Gumdrop
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To: Shady

“It has reached the point of no return. We are doomed to be conqured by the new facists.”

I think we are doomed to dig a lot of ditches and shoot a lot of traitors.


27 posted on 05/16/2008 8:45:18 PM PDT by BigCinBigD (")
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To: JimSEA
I would strongly advise people to check out an article by Netenyahu titled something like “We are not Czechoslovakia”. He goes over in detail how the west stabbed their “good allies” in the back and handed over the Sudetenland months after assuring their protection. This betrayal “peace in our time” did nothing to slow down Der Further. Bebi then compares Israel as being very much in the same position today and promises they won't go quietly like the Czechs. You can find it with a google search and it is worth the effort.
28 posted on 05/16/2008 8:45:27 PM PDT by joebuck (Finitum non capax infinitum!)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

The liberals will go to any lengths to defend their Messiah.


29 posted on 05/16/2008 8:45:35 PM PDT by LifeOrGoods? (Liberalism=stupidity=Obama=false 'hope'=true defeat)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Jonah Goldberg just wrote a great book explaining how progressivism is American fascism.

I believe him.


30 posted on 05/16/2008 8:46:49 PM PDT by JHBowden
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To: Free ThinkerNY
to “negotiate with terrorists and radicals” is “appeasement.”

Yes, it certainly is.

Negotiating with these types is not the same as negotiation with friends or even neutral parties. It is giving up something to someone who deserves nothing, in return for what should not need to be purchased.

No different than buying back, at a 'bargain price' your own property from a thief, when the proper response is taking what is rightfully yours, and leaving the thief hanging from the nearest tree.

31 posted on 05/16/2008 8:48:26 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (The Great Obamanation of Desolation, attempting to sit in the Oval Office, where he ought not..)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
The borders of Bohemia had been the same for centuries. When Czecho-Slovakia was created after WWI, they kept the historic boundaries, although some of the border districts had a majority of German-speakers. The Sudetenland had belonged to Austria before, not to Germany (unless you want to count the medieval Holy Roman Empire as Germany).

Hitler was just looking for pretexts--if there hadn't been a German-speaking minority in Bohemia, he'd have found some other reason. The border districts are mountainous, so until the Czechs were forced to give them up, they could have made a German invasion very costly.

The French were also involved in the Munich conference.

32 posted on 05/16/2008 8:48:38 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: goodnesswins

I just read the comments
They were outstanding.
I could never top them.
I don’t know what is harder to believe, that someone
named Bruce Ramsey wrote this “think-piece” or that a Seattle newspaper published it.
I would advise everyone to read the comments, which obviously come from the last sane people in Seattle.
There are gems of wisdom and insight into the Left scattered throughout.


33 posted on 05/16/2008 8:51:06 PM PDT by supremedoctrine ("Time is the school in which we learn that time is the fire in which we burn"--Delmore Schwartz)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Springtime for Hitler and Germany.


34 posted on 05/16/2008 8:52:09 PM PDT by razorback-bert (If yer gunna regret this in the mornin, we kin sleep til afternoon.)
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To: All

35 posted on 05/16/2008 8:54:30 PM PDT by Fox_Mulder77
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Hitler actually comes across much the same as the radical islamists, communists, and liberals. He wants complete control, but he nibbles away at it with seemingly innocuous things first. As the appetite grows, so do the demands.


36 posted on 05/16/2008 8:56:50 PM PDT by SlowBoat407 (ANWR would look great in pumps.)
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To: okie01
Bruce Ramsey likely learned everything he knows in college, from left-wing professors.

And he has learned absolutely nothing since.

okie01, thanks for the opportunity to throw out my favorite line on these types:

Educated beyond his intelligence!!

37 posted on 05/16/2008 8:57:48 PM PDT by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
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To: Gumdrop
The writer is an idiot.

The writer in questiion works for the Seattle Times. "Idiot," therefore, is assumed; and "openly treasonous," an easy 60/40 shot. ;)

38 posted on 05/16/2008 8:58:50 PM PDT by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle (If McCain really CAN "win without conservatives," then why do you care if I vote for him or not?)
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To: dbehsman
"I honestly don't know what else to add. These people are just simply nuts. This is no longer an issue of policy differences, this is now an issue of sanity."

Bears repeating......

39 posted on 05/16/2008 8:59:28 PM PDT by SW6906 (6 things you can't have too much of: sex, money, firewood, horsepower, guns and ammunition.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Bruce Ramsey has a long history of this kind of “attitude”
Look up someone named Garet Garrett,who vehemently opposed our going to war against the Nazis in WW2, hated FDR for it, and was part of a collective mind-set that was not much more than a hop, skip and jump away from other social phenomena of that ‘39 -’42 period like the German American Bund. They were not alone either—Joe Kennedy and Lucky Lindy, anyone? Bruce Ramsey , an apparent Libertarian, has also written/reviewed for LewRockwell.com.


40 posted on 05/16/2008 8:59:38 PM PDT by supremedoctrine ("Time is the school in which we learn that time is the fire in which we burn"--Delmore Schwartz)
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To: Free ThinkerNY; All

Bruce Ramsey

41 posted on 05/16/2008 9:00:24 PM PDT by goodnesswins (Liberals learning curves are pretty flat,)
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To: Libertina; dragonblustar; steel_resolve; angry elephant; snowsprite; American in Israel; ...
Thanks to KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle for the ping.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket
Say WA? Evergreen State ping

FReepmail sionnsar if you want on or off this ping list.

Ping sionnsar if you see a Washington state related thread.

42 posted on 05/16/2008 9:05:27 PM PDT by sionnsar (trad-anglican.faithweb.com |Iran Azadi| 5yst3m 0wn3d - it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY) | UN: Useless Nations)
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To: All
When the British let Hitler have a slice of Czechoslovakia, they were following their historical wisdom: avoid war.

That's a recipe for disaster. Why can't libs get it through their thick skulls that evil really does exist in this world. And when one comes across evil one needs to eradicate it.

Allowing evil to fester through appeasement is like giving a terrorist a nuclear bomb in mid town Manhattan.............

43 posted on 05/16/2008 9:06:20 PM PDT by Fox_Mulder77
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To: KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle

If you asked anyone working at the Times, they would undoubtedly agree that Bush is worse than Hitler, proving beyond the shadow of a doubt that leftist are completely nuts.


44 posted on 05/16/2008 9:07:06 PM PDT by Grunthor (Juan agrees with Ted Kennedy on Amnesty, Gore on GW & says Hillary'd be a good POTUS)
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To: joebuck
I was born during WWII but, of course, I have no direct recollection of it. I have vague memories of the War Of liberation (1948) and I clearly recall the following Arab-Israeli wars. The Arabs (Palestinians (?) as well) have many of Hitler's traits, particularly in negotiations. They just lack the cohesion — at least to this point.
45 posted on 05/16/2008 9:09:59 PM PDT by JimSEA
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To: RegulatorCountry
I have a hard time believing that an adult wrote this, let alone an editor of a major newspaper.

The Seattle Slimes is hardly a "major newspaper." It survives only due to a joint operating agreement with another fishwrap, the Seattle Post-Intelligencer (what do you have after you lose intelligence? the P-U).

I terminated my subscription to the Slimes decades ago, and it has not improved since. The sooner this piece of trash goes under, the better. We'll at least save some trees... and maybe some liberals can get some honest employment. Not that such will awaken them.

(Now ask me how I REALLy feel... *\;-)

46 posted on 05/16/2008 9:11:47 PM PDT by sionnsar (trad-anglican.faithweb.com |Iran Azadi| 5yst3m 0wn3d - it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY) | UN: Useless Nations)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
The NAZI’s and eugenics, the birthstone of Planned Parenthood.
47 posted on 05/16/2008 9:12:39 PM PDT by Mark was here (The earth is bipolar.)
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To: HerrBlucher
He had just annexed Austria, which was German-speaking, without bloodshed

Hitler used a diabolical mixture of subversion and the threat of bloodshed to take over Austria. And the German-speaking people of Bohemia were pawns in Hitler's cynical game to destroy Czechoslovakia. The author seems to think that German-speaking people were somehow the rightful property of Hitler. Does the author really believe that since Hitler was skilful at subversion and brainwashing, that somehow made him legitimate?

48 posted on 05/16/2008 9:13:32 PM PDT by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
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To: supremedoctrine
I would advise everyone to read the comments, which obviously come from the last sane people in Seattle.

There are a few sane people left in Seattle but I assure you -- not many.

49 posted on 05/16/2008 9:14:25 PM PDT by sionnsar (trad-anglican.faithweb.com |Iran Azadi| 5yst3m 0wn3d - it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY) | UN: Useless Nations)
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To: Mark was here
It is entirely unsurprising that a member of the "progressive community" would find appeasement preferable to confrontation. What is surprising, however, is the unabashed candor with which this editorial writer admits as much. Such people usually have a better excuse for it: It is the "pragmatic" way, or the "realistic" way, or a good-faith attempt at negotiations (which the left has fetishized in recent times).

If candor is a virtue, this fellow--Bruce Ramsey--must be a very virtuous guy. Of a sort, anyway.

50 posted on 05/16/2008 9:20:46 PM PDT by AmericanExceptionalist (Democrats believe in discussing the full spectrum of ideas, all the way from far left to center-left)
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