Posted on 05/20/2008 7:11:25 AM PDT by ReleaseTheHounds
That's right - his after-tax price of a $1million item is $3million under the income tax.
Like today, when income tax is included in prices, nrst prices are comparable. Most after tax prices go down under the nrst - because MANY who currently do not pay their portion of income tax/payroll tax [illegals, criminals] will begin paying their full share of federal tax via purchases under the nrst.
Why don't fairtaxers stick to legitimate arguments instead of relying on bogus arguments such as this one. As has been explained hundreds of times, the fairtax does nothing to tax criminals. Unless the fairtax compels criminals to remit sales tax on their illegal activities, criminals still avoid the fairtax in nearly the exact mannor as they avoid income taxes. Stick to legitimate points and not the fairytax smoke and mirror ones.
“’just as medieval science was poisoned by religious doctrine’
A couple of fist-fights does not make a war. Medieval science—that is to say, science—was created by religious doctrine. That doctrine would be Christianity, building on the doctrines of Judaism and the philosophy of certain Greek geniuses such as Aristotle.”
No need to be touchy. FYI, the greeks were pagens.
All the progressive kids who have moved back in with their parents because they cannot afford a similar lifestyle, wail:”It’s not fair!”
There are a lot of poor Democrat voters who are expecting fairness in the form of nationalization of the oil companies and subsidized gasoline, too. Not to mention a huge COLA and free food stamps, along with free health insurance, which most of them already have via Medicaid.
I cannot wait to hear them respond to the new regime. Of course, they will continue to vote D. I wonder if they will have to declare taxpayers an Endangered Species?
I am beyond expecting any rationality in this country.
You need to see beyond this AR.
Nobody ever said the FairTax taxes criminal sales. That has never been said. That is a strawman to deflect from the fact that the FairTax does indeed collect more in fed tax from criminals. ANd this strawman doesn’t even attempt to address the illegals issue.
That the FairTax does not tax criminal sales doesn’t even represent a change from today.
But the nrst fully taxes illegals when they consume.
And it fully taxes criminals when they consume.
That criminal drug sales occur without having tax collected is no change from today.
Yes you did when you said "[illegals, criminals] will begin paying their full share of federal tax via purchases under the nrst." Without expanding the base to include illegal activities, the fairtax base just includes the exact same legal market activities as the income tax, and then there is no basis for your argument that prices will somehow magically come down under the fairtax. Under the fairtax, criminals will NOT be paying their full share, as they will still not be remitting any taxes for their illegal activities.
The folks who understand the following paragraph are already acting upon it:
Putting it a different way, capital migrates away from regimes in which it is treated harshly, and toward regimes in which it is free to be invested profitably and safely. In this regard, the capital controlled by our richest citizens is especially tax-intolerant.
you don't get it. I'll try one more time.
today, a criminal/illegal only pays embedded taxes in consumption - while the legal pays embedded taxes AND PIT AND EE payroll. Do you see that currently criminals/illegals do not pay their full burden? [they pay no PIT or payroll]. Hence, legals pay a larger share per person... currently criminals and illegals are escaping a portion of their taxes [PIT and payroll].
under the nrst, the criminal does not escape taxes [except on illegal purchases, which obviously aren't taxed - nor are they taxed today] - he pays his effective rate, the same as the legal. That means under the nrst, legals will pay less and criminals/illegals will pay more.
do you see that the nrst will collect a greater portion of taxes from the criminal/illegal under the nrst than it does currently?
please note that is is NOT related in any respect to illegal sales. Illegal sales aren't taxed today and won't be under the nrst - they represent zero change. No change is asserted in illegal sales.
The change is that criminals/illegals currently escape paying taxes on illegal sales AND escape PIT and payroll. Under the nrst, they will still escape tax on illegal sales, but they will pay amounts for PIT and payroll in their consumption.
If you don't like the nrst, fine. But it will collect a greater portion of taxes from illegals/criminals than today compared to legals. That is one thing that allows tax burdens for legals to decline.
Bump for later
Does that graph mean to imply the Top Individual income tax rate in 1955 was 90%?
How much would the change in rules about tax deductions skew this graph I wonder?
Absolutely they cheat the system. I just don't get how you see it as ANY different under the fair tax. There is ZERO difference. There is NO net gain. Let's say Spitzer pays a hooker $5000. Under the income tax, the hooker does not pay SS tax or Income tax. Under the fairtax, the hooker does not remit 23% of that gross payment for her services. Under BOTH systems the hooker keeps over $1000 that rightfully should be sent to the government. NO DIFFERENT, except the semantics which you twist it with.
The top marginal tax rate in 1955 was 91% — down slightly from the 94% it was in the last 2 years of World War II.
It was 70% when Ronald Reagan took over the presidency in 1981. When he left office, it was 28%.
Difficult to figure out what deductions would mean to those old top marginal rates. The 28% achieved in 1988-90 was the result of agreements eliminating many tax-shelters and various other deductions but after Bush Senior gave up on “no new taxes” it was back to the old ways: upping marginal tax rates and bringing back the old deduction dodge. JMHO.
Indeed, I believe you are correct. The easy credit economy has created unstustainable national debt, PERIOD. Foreigners were funding a hefty portion of public debt but have moved on due to the instability of our financial system and into commodities. The government’s remedy to this is taxation without representation in the form of inflation which is the FED, appointed officials NOT elected. Add the $14 trillion debt and the forecasted costs of SS & Medicare for the boomers over the next decade of $18 trillion.
The Democrats proposed way to pay for this is socialism or wealth redistribution through taxation. It is a collective punishment for the responsible. Socialism does work temporarily and Obama would be touted as short-term savior but the cracks of the damn would multiply many fold in a three or four year span and he would not be re-elected.
My solution would be to declare energy independence as a national security priority, subsidizing hundreds of billions into the effort. This would help create millions of permanent jobs which add to the tax base. Also, America could become an exporter of the raw materials which also makes shipping agriculture and metals (things which the global consumer actually needs) less expensive. It would create a massive global investment opportunity, particularly if it was backed by Treasury and this would fix a good portion of the financial sector. It would deflate the commodities bubble. This would create trillions of dollars of new wealth over time. The citizens of this nation are seeing a declining quality of life. I do not see a way to minimize this in the short term and feel we will go over the cliff and be 10 feet from earth before we open this parachute.
“They do not want to own your fortune, they want you to lose it; they do not want to succeed, they want you to fail; they do not want to live, they want you to die; they desire nothing, they hate existence ...”(Atlas Shrugged.Ayn Rand.)
You hit it dead on. See what the big money guys like Warren Buffet are getting into and that is investing overseas. America will get it right on the economy but not without pain which spurs necessity which spurs definitive actions. I don’t want or cheer pain, I prefer research and action in advance to solve problems (that’s the businessman in me).
Why yes, of COURSE this would be solidly comprehended by the airhead brainless oprah-worshipping soccer moms in my neighborhood:
"The interactions among the myriad participants in a tax system are as impossible to unravel as are those of the molecules in a gas, and the effects of tax policies are speculative and highly contentious."
I can just imagine the glazed look in their eyes. Apologies for the sarcasm, but many in redzones don't realize how bad it's gotten. Ever notice how dumbed down TV commercials have gotten? There's a reason.
“We do not want you to obey the law! We want you to break the law... and then we can decide whom to throw into jail!” (loosely recalled from Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand... this is a quote I remember from Wesley Mouch to Hank Reardon. Mouch was the Government Bureaucrat responsible for promoting the “Anti-Dog-Eat-Dog” bill... it’s been many years, so no guarantee on this quote/reference!).
Hahah, was wondering the same thing! There is a flaw in the model here or WSJ is somehow misintepreting what the research means.
The Liberal/Marxists see all wealth and property as being owned by the government. It is the government that “allows” citizens to keep some of the government's money and property.
Scratch a liberal and under his thin skin is a hard core socialist. Dig a little deeper and you will soon find the Marxist's nuclear fuel rod that drives everything he says and does.
Corollary: All Liberal/Marxists lie.
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