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Why Nerds Are Unpopular
Paul Graham.com ^ | Feb 2003 | Paul Graham

Posted on 06/02/2008 1:55:29 PM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

When we were in junior high school, my friend Rich and I made a map of the school lunch tables according to popularity. This was easy to do, because kids only ate lunch with others of about the same popularity. We graded them from A to E. A tables were full of football players and cheerleaders and so on. E tables contained the kids with mild cases of Down's Syndrome, what in the language of the time we called "retards."

We sat at a D table, as low as you could get without looking physically different. We were not being especially candid to grade ourselves as D. It would have taken a deliberate lie to say otherwise. Everyone in the school knew exactly how popular everyone else was, including us.

(Excerpt) Read more at paulgraham.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: adolescence; educationsystem; nerds
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Long essay, but he actually has some pretty insightful things to say about how our society deals with teenagers and the educational system.

Excellent essay! Very, very accurate description of what it's like in way too many schools. The essay is worth reading twice or thrice, and it should be required reading for school teachers and school boards. And I thought what I went through a few decades ago was hell. I'm glad I didn't have any kids that would have had to endure this more recent and much worse school hell.

61 posted on 06/02/2008 3:24:26 PM PDT by Dagny&Hank
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To: Just another Joe
When you're 4'9'' and 95 lbs soaking wet going into High School, you're a walking punching bag.

I was about 4' 11' on my 11th birthday. Similar weight. On my 12th birthday, my size 6C feet had grown to 10EE and I was 6' 3/8" and 110 lbs. My parents went crazy trying to keep clothes that fit on my hide over that year. On my 13th birthday I was 135 lbs. By age 16 I was 155 lbs on graduation day from high school. Those PE classes during football season weren't much fun when the guy on the other side was a 210 lb varsity football player.

It sucked to be always the last one chosen for a team in PE. Getting the best score on tests and papers in the other classes always had a quiet air of schadenfreude. Academic and athletic prowess have little correlation.

62 posted on 06/02/2008 3:27:02 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Sacajaweau
Anyone been watching the program “Big Bang”? I love nerds....They’re “mockable”.

I love that show... and Two and a Half Men. Same writer I think. In fact, one of my favorite quotes from that show involves you... well... your screen name at least... "Sacajaweau is not a big bag of jaweau!"

63 posted on 06/02/2008 3:27:17 PM PDT by r-q-tek86 (If you're not taking flak, you're not over the target.)
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To: AnAmericanMother
Accurate to some degree, but I think he overstates his case for effect. The environment he describes may be typical of the larger public schools (my limited experience suggests this may be true) but not of all schools, everywhere.

One would think that rural schools would be better, but our rural school with only a hundred kids per grade is nearly what he describes. The big city schools are, apparently, worse -- what he describes may be an understatement when applied to such metro schools.

64 posted on 06/02/2008 3:27:55 PM PDT by Dagny&Hank
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Jealousy! Everyone knows that nerds are great in bed while “whitecaps” (ie Jocks) prefer showering with eachother in front of their “top”, er, “coach.”


65 posted on 06/02/2008 3:29:01 PM PDT by Clemenza (No Comment)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus


"Nobody's really free until nerd persecution ends."
66 posted on 06/02/2008 3:29:25 PM PDT by Thoro (Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.)
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To: gridlock

Hot chick?


67 posted on 06/02/2008 3:29:44 PM PDT by Sgt Joe Friday 714
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To: CholeraJoe
Fast forward four years, I suddenly got real popular, when everyone realized that I was going to have a big paying job upon graduation.

You're an Engineer too.

*snicker*

68 posted on 06/02/2008 3:30:48 PM PDT by Professional Engineer (www.pinupsforvets.com)
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To: Resolute Conservative

When I graduated from college, the engineering students were chanting “we got jobs!” and the business students yelled back “working for us!”.


69 posted on 06/02/2008 3:33:51 PM PDT by LetsRok
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To: Righter-than-Rush
Wait until that nerd masters futures trading, retires at 28 and shows up at his 10th reunion. Watch the women swoon the nerd...

That really is over simplifying it. Part of what makes a nerd a nerd is his or her fairly inept social skills. Mastering futures trading doesn't improve one's social skills. And nerds still have to compete with more charming, comparably successful individuals.

A lot of those women swooning at the nerd at the 10th anniversary are not great prizes themselves, and probably never were.

Women do consider financial success attractive in a man, but it's not the only thing. And as I said, it's not really that rare and the duds still have to compete with more dominant, more assertive, and more sexually appealing successful men. That swooning you mention is really overstated,

70 posted on 06/02/2008 3:34:01 PM PDT by Sgt Joe Friday 714
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

IN my senior class the smartest kid in the class was also the class president and the city teenager of the year.


71 posted on 06/02/2008 3:36:30 PM PDT by mjp (Live & let live. I don't want to live in Mexico, Marxico, or Muslimico. Statism & high taxes suck)
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To: neodad
I would hazard a guess that a significant majority of this forum would fall into the “nerd” catagory.

You mean I'm the ONLY cool kid here?!?

72 posted on 06/02/2008 3:36:36 PM PDT by r-q-tek86 (If you're not taking flak, you're not over the target.)
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To: wintertime
And that's why smart people's lives are worst between, say, the ages of eleven and seventeen. Life at that age revolves far more around popularity than before or after.

I don't think this is exactly true. Good social skills are very valuable at every stage of life. They may not be the whole main event, but they are important. Brains are important, too, but it's not the whole main event either. It's strange that this is presented as an either-or proposition. The two skillsets are not mutually exclusive at all.

73 posted on 06/02/2008 3:36:47 PM PDT by Sgt Joe Friday 714
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Ping for later...


74 posted on 06/02/2008 3:37:01 PM PDT by Illuminatas (Being conservative means never having to say; "Don't you dare question my patriotism")
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To: Resolute Conservative
“Your star athlete will work for my honor student.” I have seen many variations.

My favorite variation is a saying from architecture shool... The A and the F students teach... the B and the D students work for the C students.

75 posted on 06/02/2008 3:38:41 PM PDT by r-q-tek86 (If you're not taking flak, you're not over the target.)
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To: mikeus_maximus
Maybe, but look at it this way: hot young chicks didn't want anything to do with you when you were young....and they still don't.

Very true!

76 posted on 06/02/2008 3:38:47 PM PDT by Sgt Joe Friday 714
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To: Sgt Joe Friday 714
Didn't want the "girls gone wild" types when I was in my teens. Don't want them now.

As for your claim about the "popular guys being a success", I would say that is true at the private, selective school I went to, but when you get to your Joe Schmoe average public high school, the bully/jock types usually wind up sitting on their a-s at the tavern, talking about the good old days, while the geeks they teased were smart enough the get out of that hole.

Its all very complex. Charm without brains can only get you so far, and vice versa.

77 posted on 06/02/2008 3:41:33 PM PDT by Clemenza (No Comment)
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To: cripplecreek
It isn't just the nerds.

Anyone who consistently gets a 97% on a chemistry test which was being graded on a curve is unpopular.

Those who look/act the part catch the most hell, though.

78 posted on 06/02/2008 3:42:30 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

The vital thing is for nerds to have nerds for parents. Nerd parents can do things like play role games with them, make bottle rockets using mentos and lots of other off the wall stuff.

We raised three and were able to give them full nerd reign even if it meant marathon sessions of slashdot.org., or tomshardware.com.

We are the proud nerds of proudly nerdy engineers who make lots and lots of money who are married to lovely nerdy lady engineers.

We are expecting third generation nerds someday.

But, but...even if one of them has an A list kid at some point, we will still love it.


79 posted on 06/02/2008 3:46:52 PM PDT by OpusatFR (Will hijack threads for cheese - brie or better. No Borden's please.)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

I sat at what was referred to as the “’head” table. Funny thing is, most of us weren’t potheads (although a few were).


80 posted on 06/02/2008 3:48:12 PM PDT by Hacksaw (I support the San Fran tiger.)
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