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The Buzz about Barack’s Birth Certificate
michellemalkin.com ^ | June 10, 2008 | Michelle Malkin

Posted on 06/10/2008 10:11:40 AM PDT by Free ThinkerNY

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To: 353FMG

Why?


151 posted on 06/10/2008 12:05:22 PM PDT by stuartcr (Election year.....Who we gonna hate, in '08?)
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To: Right Wing Assault

That is killer stuff


152 posted on 06/10/2008 12:05:44 PM PDT by spanalot
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To: MHGinTN

His mother’s passport records need to be looked at.


153 posted on 06/10/2008 12:06:34 PM PDT by Rider on the Rain
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To: Jeff Head

I remember making sure my first son could be President, though he was born 16 years ago to only one American outside of the country. But I meet all of the qualifications under those rules. So I believe my son could be President one day (though I hope he doesn’t run!).

Obama’s mom might have been too young, or possibly didn’t spend the requisite time within the USA?


154 posted on 06/10/2008 12:06:59 PM PDT by Yaelle
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To: JZelle

Well, he must be passing for black then because his race is white.


155 posted on 06/10/2008 12:07:04 PM PDT by Eastbound
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To: TigersEye
I just took a look at the weapons involved in the actual dual. They were flint-locks. Just to keep historically correct. ;)

It did slow the Hamiltonians down.

/johnny

156 posted on 06/10/2008 12:08:00 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Bless us all, each, and every one.)
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To: Jeff Head
Obama's mother had him when she was 18 and therefore did not meet that criteria if he was born outside the US.

Aha! Whoa, he needs to produce that BC.

157 posted on 06/10/2008 12:09:01 PM PDT by Yaelle
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To: Jeff Head

Jeff, by 1961 Hawaii was our 50th State. Infact August 21, 1959 marks the date of statehood. and that is disregarding other facts of citizenship. or is it disgarding??


158 posted on 06/10/2008 12:09:33 PM PDT by malia (God Bless America, President Bush and our Troops & their families .)
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To: Glenn
I will take the man at his word because of the magnitude of the punishment were it any other way.

In Texan Hold-em, we call that 'going all in, on a 2 and a 7, unsuited'.

159 posted on 06/10/2008 12:09:51 PM PDT by fanfan ("We don't start fights my friends, but we finish them, and never leave until our work is done."PMSH)
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To: beezdotcom
The other issue is: what if he wasn't born in 1961, but was really born before August 21, 1959 - before statehood?

It would be a non-issue for the same reason that McCain's birth in the Panama Canal Zone is a non-issue: birth in a territory then under jurisdiction of the United States.

160 posted on 06/10/2008 12:12:02 PM PDT by Vigilanteman ((Are there any men left in Washington? Or are there only cowards? Ahmad Shah Massoud))
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To: BertWheeler
Was that gaffe regarding 57 states a mistake?

Obama and the 57 States on youTube

Isn’t 57 the number of recognized Islamic states in the world?


161 posted on 06/10/2008 12:12:23 PM PDT by jan in Colorado (For Barack Hussein Obama TRUTH FILE see my homepage!)
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To: usmcobra; Jeff Head

Jeff, did you see post #94???


162 posted on 06/10/2008 12:13:27 PM PDT by fanfan ("We don't start fights my friends, but we finish them, and never leave until our work is done."PMSH)
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To: beezdotcom

I had already neverd minded.


163 posted on 06/10/2008 12:15:31 PM PDT by ASA Vet (http://www.nrapublications.org/oj/McCain.asp)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Still waiting to see that “baptismal certificate”.


164 posted on 06/10/2008 12:15:39 PM PDT by Gumdrop
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To: usmcobra
If Obama's adoptive step father secured for him Indonesian citizenship as part of the adoption process and Obama traveled under Indonesian documents to the United States his US citizenship would automatically have been revoked if he didn't reaffirm it at eighteen.

I have a question. Would the US government notify some one of that requirement just before the person turned 18, or would he have had to remember on his own?

Maybe it's not so much what is ON the birth certificate, but where that information could lead.

165 posted on 06/10/2008 12:17:27 PM PDT by fanfan ("We don't start fights my friends, but we finish them, and never leave until our work is done."PMSH)
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To: fanfan

I didn’t know until now that an adopted person would have a new birth certificate at adoption. It makes sense, but I’d never thought about it before. Was Barack adopted by the Indonesian father? Does the new adoptive father then get his name on the birth certificate as if he had been there the year and date the child is born (conceived)?


166 posted on 06/10/2008 12:21:12 PM PDT by Yaelle
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To: colinhester

Another FReeper said today that he called the relevant office in 2004, and was told they don’t bother to check these things.

I’m sorry, I don’t remember who said it.


167 posted on 06/10/2008 12:21:26 PM PDT by fanfan ("We don't start fights my friends, but we finish them, and never leave until our work is done."PMSH)
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To: malia

If he was born in Hawaii in 1961, then he is a natural born US citizen. The other rules only apply if he is born abroad (like in Kenya as some assert) to a single US citizen parent (his mom in this case).


168 posted on 06/10/2008 12:22:06 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: freespirited

“My best guess is that his parents were not legally married.”

If that were true, that would make him a real “Bastid”.


169 posted on 06/10/2008 12:23:04 PM PDT by FMBass ("Now that I'm sober I watch a lot of news"- Garofalo from Coulter's "Treason")
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To: usmcobra
If Obama's adoptive step father secured for him Indonesian citizenship as part of the adoption process

Ok, I'm confused. If he was adopted by his mother's second husband, why is his name Obama? Did he legally changed it back to his biological father's name at some point?

170 posted on 06/10/2008 12:23:55 PM PDT by tsmith130
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To: HawaiianGecko

ROFLOL!


171 posted on 06/10/2008 12:24:39 PM PDT by oswegodeee (Dee) ( Born in the South and raised in a G_D centered home)
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To: fanfan; usmcobra; Jack Black; sitetest
No, I dd not seen that. Another interesting twist and question.

Jack and test, did you see this info in POST 94 on this thread?

172 posted on 06/10/2008 12:24:43 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Yaelle
Does the new adoptive father then get his name on the birth certificate as if he had been there the year and date the child is born (conceived)?

Why change the facts of the original certificate? Can you just add an adoptive parent to an existing birth certificate?

It's not the same as an adoption certificate.

*confused*

173 posted on 06/10/2008 12:26:26 PM PDT by fanfan ("We don't start fights my friends, but we finish them, and never leave until our work is done."PMSH)
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To: fanfan

I can only speak from my experience. When we adopted our daughter, and after all legal requirements were completed, a new birth certificate was issued from the state where she was born (which was not the state we resided in) and we were listed as the parents.


174 posted on 06/10/2008 12:29:25 PM PDT by tsmith130
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To: ASA Vet
I had already neverd minded.

And yet, you didn't 'nevermind' the 'nevermind'...fancy that.
175 posted on 06/10/2008 12:31:10 PM PDT by beezdotcom
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To: spanalot
That is killer stuff

Referring to post #43.

176 posted on 06/10/2008 12:31:10 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: Free ThinkerNY; Jeff Head
Interesting.

From looking around the web, it does appear that the state of Hawaii provides a mechanism to verify information about a birth certificate without actually receiving a copy of the certificate:

Letters of Verification

Letters of verification may be issued in lieu of certified copies (HRS §338-14.3). This document verifies the existence of a birth/death/marriage/divorce certificate on file with the Department of Health and any other information that the applicant provides to be verified relating to the vital event. (For example, that a certain named individual was born on a certain date at a certain place.) The verification process will not, however, disclose information about the vital event contained within the certificate that is unknown to and not provided by the applicant in the request.

Letters of verification are requested in similar fashion and using the same request forms as for certified copies.

The fee for a letter of verification is $5 per letter.

(http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/vital_records.html)

I would think that calling the Vital Records Office would be enough to get an explanation of how to write for verification that Barack Hussein Obama, Jr., was born in the state of Hawaii on August 4th, 1961, to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., and Ann Dunham. (The web page says "Letters of verification are requested in similar fashion and using the same request forms as for certified copies", but I didn't see anywhere on the provided PDFs to request verification rather than a certified copy, so I think that it might take a telephone call to ensure that the verification request is being done correctly.)

The end product would hopefully be that one gets a "yes" or "no" answer to the question from the Vital Records department.

177 posted on 06/10/2008 12:33:29 PM PDT by snowsislander
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To: pbear8

I say we’ll probably see the birth certificate at the same time we see Bill Clinton’s Medical Records!!

And Jon Carry’s complete military records

Yep!!


178 posted on 06/10/2008 12:36:59 PM PDT by Primetimedonna ( It's SAN FRANCISCO, not Frisco. Charter member of the San Francisco Snowflakes)
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To: Political Junkie Too
I'm sure the Obama camp would immediately appeal to the US Supreme Court, citing some vague "always thought he was an American" excuse, just like the family story he always thought was true about his uncle.

Then the MSM will drum up support for calling it an archaic "technicality" that should be overruled by the USSC because of the immense popularity of Obama,

USSC literally could not rule on this as it is in black and white in the Constitution. There is ZERO wiggle room for interpretation on this.

179 posted on 06/10/2008 12:41:49 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Beware the fury of the man that cannot find hope or justice.)
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To: Centurion2000
I don't trust the USSC to be so black-and-white anymore. I thought the eminent domain language was clear, but they found a way with Kelo to take your private property and give it to other private entities. What's to stop them from declaring someone eligible to be president for the common good, or by using the commerce clause, or other such emanation from a penumbra?

-PJ

180 posted on 06/10/2008 12:46:32 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (Repeal the 17th amendment -- it's the "Fairness Doctrine" for Congress!)
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To: tsmith130

Do they keep a copy of the old certificate?


181 posted on 06/10/2008 12:48:51 PM PDT by fanfan ("We don't start fights my friends, but we finish them, and never leave until our work is done."PMSH)
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To: fanfan

No clue. If I had to guess, I’d say yes...there is probably some paper trail but I have nothing to base that on.


182 posted on 06/10/2008 12:51:04 PM PDT by tsmith130
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To: beezdotcom

From FindLaw.com: “If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16.” Obama’s mother would not meet this standard.

But have 2 non-citizen parents and be born here and bingo you’re a citizen, what’s wrong with this picture?


183 posted on 06/10/2008 12:56:22 PM PDT by kalee (The offenses we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we write in marble. JHuett)
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To: Centurion2000
There is wiggle room on the definition of "natural born", which is the question here. That definition has been changed in the US code numerous times in the 1900s. 1934, 1941, 1952, and 1986. Within those time frames and before, the law in place at the time governs.

So the USSC could rule on which defiintion is the "one" definition to be used as regards the US constitution and the eligibilty for the office of the Presidency.

Here's a good site regarding the same.

184 posted on 06/10/2008 12:56:34 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: kalee
But have 2 non-citizen parents and be born here and bingo you’re a citizen, what’s wrong with this picture?

Of course, I discovered I was wrong about Hawaii - but yeah, as far as 'birthright citizenship' goes - there really should be some mitigating circumstances regarding the elegibility of the parents - maybe by applying only the thinnest veneer of criteria, such as "at least ONE of the parents must have been at a minimum at least a LEGAL visitor to the country"
185 posted on 06/10/2008 1:02:18 PM PDT by beezdotcom
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To: Yaelle
I didn’t know until now that an adopted person would have a new birth certificate at adoption. It makes sense, but I’d never thought about it before. Was Barack adopted by the Indonesian father? Does the new adoptive father then get his name on the birth certificate as if he had been there the year and date the child is born (conceived)?

I don't know how it was done in Obama's case, it might vary by State, but I do know how it was done in my husband's case.

My husband was born in Massachusetts, and his parents divorced when he was only a few years old. Several years later (around 1953 or so), his mother remarried and her new husband adopted her two children from the previous marriage. He has his first birth certificate, which lists his mother and original father. He also has a copy of a birth certificate that was issued when his "new" father adopted him. It lists the "new" father and his mother as the parents, just as if his first father never existed and his "new" father was there from day 1.

186 posted on 06/10/2008 1:03:08 PM PDT by RedWhiteBlue
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To: jan in Colorado

If those “states” were voting he’d win in a landslide.


187 posted on 06/10/2008 1:03:16 PM PDT by kalee (The offenses we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we write in marble. JHuett)
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To: AmericaUnited
I’m betting on the story that his name was Barack Hussein MUHAMMAD Obama.

Nobody who would ever vote for him would care.

188 posted on 06/10/2008 1:05:43 PM PDT by Jim Noble (May 17 was my Tenth Anniversary on FR)
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To: Jim Noble

No, but we only need to sway a small percentage of the middle to make a difference.


189 posted on 06/10/2008 1:09:41 PM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: Brilliant

As has been posted by others on this thread, when Obama was born (1961), a person born in a foreign country with one U.S. citizen parent and one non-citizen parent would be a U.S. citizen at birth only if the U.S. citizen parent had lived at least 10 years in the U.S. (which was clearly the case for Obama’s mother) and lived at least 5 years after the age of 16 in the U.S. (which was *not* the case for Obama’s mother, since he was born when his mother was only 20 years old). Thus, if Obama was not born in U.S. soil, he was not a U.S. citizen at birth, and thus would be ineligible to become president. (And if he didn’t subsequently become a naturalized citizen, he wouldn’t even be eligible to become a Senator or even to vote.)

That being said, I assume that Obama was indeed born in Hawaii and that he doesn’t want to release his birth certificate for another reason (such as because it says that his parents were not married to each other, or because it lists a second middle name).


190 posted on 06/10/2008 1:11:38 PM PDT by AuH2ORepublican (Fred Thompson appears human-sized because he is actually standing a million miles away.)
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To: snowsislander
The verification process will not, however, disclose information about the vital event contained within the certificate that is unknown to and not provided by the applicant in the request.

Well, at $5 a pop, we're not talking about a lot of money to ask all the questions that need to be asked to whittle this down.

191 posted on 06/10/2008 1:15:37 PM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: AmericaUnited
No, but we only need to sway a small percentage of the middle to make a difference.

We need to isolate these radicals, and we need to turn their own people against them, it needs to be done before NOVEMBER.

192 posted on 06/10/2008 1:18:36 PM PDT by oswegodeee (Dee) ( Born in the South and raised in a G_D centered home)
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To: JRandomFreeper
Just to keep historically correct. ;)

That's all I'm looking for. A little historical accuracy. ;^)

It did slow the Hamiltonians down.

Spark it!

193 posted on 06/10/2008 1:24:02 PM PDT by TigersEye (Berlin 1936. Olympics for murdering regimes. Beijing 2008.)
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To: Jeff Head

By the way this may be tied to the passport gate incident a few months back when Obama’s records were how shall I say it “gone through” by employees of one of Obama’s supporters, along with Hillary’s and John McCain’s.

Were they there to uncover something or to cover up something, they had the access to do either.


194 posted on 06/10/2008 1:24:42 PM PDT by usmcobra (I sing Karaoke the way it was meant to be sung, drunk, badly and in Japanese)
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To: kalee

195 posted on 06/10/2008 1:25:20 PM PDT by jan in Colorado (For Barack Hussein Obama TRUTH FILE see my homepage!)
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To: Jeff Head
"But, if there is just one US citizen parent for the baby, then the rules that I quoted above for those born outside the United States apply and though the baby may become a "naturalized" citizen, they are not "natural (or native) born".

Not being one to quibble, but why don't you simply find the evidence that he went through the "naturalization" process and took the test rather than hoping that he was born before Hawai'i became a state or theorizing he was born in a foreign country.   Last time I checked this is America.  If you have proof, show it, don't ask him to prove a negative.  I never saw Ronald Reagan's birth certificate either, so I guess we'll just have to rescind his whole presidency.  Gee, that means that if Obama becomes POTUS he will be #43.  I wonder if anyone has a product with the function "scan and replace" that will scrub the entire internet of all the lousy comments about #43, or if Obama will simply get tagged with all the BS that was attached to W?

If he was born in a foreign country then some conservative working at Kapiolani Med Center would have made news by claiming there are no records of his birth.  It would be totally legal to do so since their is no law against releasing information that doesn't exist, however, if he was born in Hawai'i then Kapiolani Med would not release the documents due to priviledge... indicating he was actually born on U.S. soil. End of story.

The theory that he was born before August 21, 1959 (Hawai'i statehood) is easily debunked, since his mother graduated from Mercer Island High School, a public high school located in Mercer Island, Washington in June of 1960, and started college at the U of H - Manoa in the fall of 1960.  She and Obama Sr  were married on 2/2/61 in Maui.  A search on Stanley Dunham retrieves the following of which Stanley Ann Dunham is his mother.

196 posted on 06/10/2008 1:27:28 PM PDT by HawaiianGecko
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To: HawaiianGecko
I have never said he was born before his birth date in 1961. I have simply stated the rules by which the constitution indicates a person is eligible to be elected president, one of those being a natural born citizen.

You did not see , and no one asked about Reagan because there was no question. McCain, in 2000, was put through the ringer on this issue and he ended up passing the smell test. Obama has an issue...both about his birth and about his citizenship as a child in Indonesia. I would like to see them put to rest.

Others apparently agree, just as many (particualry libs) did with McCain (and still do BTW).

I personally believe that when running for president, because of the huge trust, responsibility, and impact issues on all of us, that there is a need to prove that a candidate meets all the criteria spelled out in the constituion, including the US natural born citizenship issue.

197 posted on 06/10/2008 1:34:18 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: kalee
But have 2 non-citizen parents and be born here and bingo you’re a citizen, what’s wrong with this picture?

We obviously do need an amendment to the Constitution just to make this clear. It is worse than what you say, above. Right now, we have someone born to two people who are not even legally allowed to be IN the country becoming a full citizen AT BIRTH.

We should distinguish between a child born to two legal residents of this country, or even two students on visas, and to two people illegally here. If neither of the parents is legally in the USA, the child should not even be in LINE for citizenship. And we should reserve the right to refuse all but life-saving free care to that child. No education, no NOTHING.

198 posted on 06/10/2008 1:36:23 PM PDT by Yaelle
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To: kalee
But have 2 non-citizen parents and be born here and bingo you’re a citizen, what’s wrong with this picture?

We obviously do need an amendment to the Constitution just to make this clear. It is worse than what you say, above. Right now, we have someone born to two people who are not even legally allowed to be IN the country becoming a full citizen AT BIRTH.

We should distinguish between a child born to two legal residents of this country, or even two students on visas, and to two people illegally here. If neither of the parents is legally in the USA, the child should not even be in LINE for citizenship. And we should reserve the right to refuse all but life-saving free care to that child. No education, no NOTHING.

199 posted on 06/10/2008 1:36:34 PM PDT by Yaelle
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To: malia

“Barack Hussein Obama, born in Hawaii, mother was a US citizen, her father served in WWII
... Those are fact[s]”

If they are “facts”, they should be provable through supporting documents.

All Obama has to do is PRODUCE those documents.

He refuses to do just that. Hence, such documents are suspect. One wonders if they even _exist_ at all.

Why? Why the reluctance to share with us, information that is so fundamental and basic to his citizenship?

Just an off-the-wall comment here. One of the fundamental reasons we elect someone to the office of the presidency is because he engenders our trust. Simple enough. But how can I be expected to give that trust to someone who refuses to share with me facts about his life as elemental as the circumstances of his birth?

- John


200 posted on 06/10/2008 1:37:18 PM PDT by Fishrrman
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