Puerto Rico Ping! Please Freepmail me if you want on or off the list.
Posted on 06/19/2008 7:39:39 AM PDT by rrstar96
(English-language translation)
Understanding that Spain has "a moral debt" to Puerto Rico after ceding the island [to the United States] following the Spanish-American War, Popular Democratic Party (PPD) Senator Eudaldo Báez Galib asked the government of Spain to intervene to help solve the problem of the [island's political] status.
Báez sent a letter to Spain's Consul-General in Puerto Rico Carlos Vinuesa Salto asking him to go before the International Court of Justice to present Puerto Rico's case.
"The historical moment has come for Spain to tend to its affairs with Puerto Rico. Among these, the mere fact that Puerto Rico was ceded without consulting the Puerto Rican [people] at the time and under the prevailing idiosyncrasy then," the letter reads.
The PPD Senator argues on the three-page letter, a copy of which was sent to the Governor's Mansion, that the Puerto Rican status problem is partly Spain's responsibility. He added that the Treaty of Paris, through which the island passed to American hands, was violated.
"A great moral debt from Spain to Puerto Rico exists. Even after the island's transfer to the United States as spoils of the Spanish-American War, the cultural links and special affections never ceased, even if the political ones were broken," the letter indicates.
In justifying his request, [Báez] said that Puerto Rico does not have "international juridical personality" to go before the Court.
"Spain does possess such a personality. Furthermore, as a signatory to the Treaty and as a party with interest and right, it has the capacity to present Puerto Rico's case before this Court. In addition, it may demand when appropriate a delimitation of that authority acquired by the Congress of the United States that, by strict international law, is not eternal," the letter says.
It was not possible to obtain a reaction from the Spanish Consulate.
ping
Maybe we should just give Puerto Rico back to Spain. I am not sure why we need another tax-sucking welfare state like PR, and the socialist Spanish government could take care of it.
Give it back. Save the taxes.
(please correct me if I've gotten the facts wrong...)
It’s unclear to me what this guy is trying to achieve. Does he want PR to go back to Spain? That’s fine, but I doubt that many Puerto Ricans would agree.
>>I’m all for Puerto Rican Independence.But they’ve gotta understand that with Independence goes the loss of US citizenship and the right to live here.
Don’t think that Spain wants a welfare-dependant entity. Loss of US citizenship means no Yankee dollars and subject to Spanish taxes.
This is gratitude for freeing them from Spain’s dominance. Good, let them go and don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
I don’t think “Mother Spain” wants Puerto Rico back anyway.
If PR wants to become a separate country, that's fine with me.
They do need to remember that they can no longer be American citizens if that happens.
IMO,the only two things that he can be driving at are Independence or to become part of Spain again.I'd have no problem with either course.Today Puerto Ricans have most of the benefits of US citizenship with few of the burdens.Money flows only one way between San Juan and Washington...unlike with the 50 states.
No, Spain doesn’t like Puerto Ricans any more than they like Spain. PR is actually a fairly functional capitalist society these days, and aside from the usual Dem corruption, is doing fairly well.
What's the problem? Either become a state or get the hell out. ANY territory should start getting reorganized as states at this point.
What is Puerto Rico’s case? We’ve offered them independence, we’ve offered them statehood - just what the heck do they want?
Is is possible to force them to be an independent country?
Does England have a "moral debt" to the USA? France to Louisiana?
-PJ
But it would mean they'd get Euros, which these days are worth a whole lot more than Yankee dollars.
Wait until they find out the percentage of Puerto Ricans on Welfare.
You have to see where Senator Báez is coming from. He is part of the sovereignty (read “independence”) wing of the Popular Democratic Party.
Even if they did claim independence our taxes would go there in the form of aid.
Its just the perks of our country being a global sugar daddy.
Heck, even American Samoa has more than 60K residents.
I have never heard of those territories having active statehood movements. Does anybody else know otherwise?
Puerto Rico Ping! Please Freepmail me if you want on or off the list.
Ah, foreign aid! An independent Puerto Rico might invoke it claiming the United States has a (here we go again) “moral debt” to the island.
I don't know. It's more like ¡Coño! to me.
The Senator is apparently not satisfied with the democratic process in Puerto Rico and is looking for a court to overrule the will of the island’s people.
Just how we islanders got into this limbo could have been avoided if we had heeded the words of the Great Dissenter back in 1901:
“In my opinion, Congress has no existence and can exercise no authority outside of the Constitution. Still less is it true that Congress can deal with new territories just as other nations have done or may do with their new territories. This nation is under the control of a written constitution, the supreme law of the land and the only source of the powers which our government, or any branch or officer of it, may exert at any time or at any place. Monarchical and despotic governments, unrestrained by written constitutions, may do with newly acquired territories what this government may not do consistently with our fundamental law. To say otherwise is to concede that Congress may, by action taken outside of the Constitution, engraft upon our republican institutions a colonial system such as exists under monarchical governments. Surely such a result was never contemplated by the fathers of the Constitution. If that instrument had contained a word suggesting the possibility of a result of that character it would never have been adopted by the people of the United States. The idea that this country may acquire territories anywhere upon the earth, by conquest or treaty, and hold them as mere colonies or provinces,—the people inhabiting them to enjoy only such rights as Congress chooses to accord to them,—is wholly inconsistent with the spirit and genius, as well as with the words, of the Constitution.” - Justice John Harlan, dissenting in the Insular Cases, 1901
So, the case is made. Either statehood or independence.
Article covers possible statehood and unification for territories of Guam and Northern Mariannas.
There are no fixed requirements for statehood. Each territory that becomes a state is subject to its own specific Congressional enabling legislation which spells out the particular conditions required for statehood for each individual territory.
Maybe he can schedule another referendum.
I'm sure Spain wants nothing to do with the proposal - but someone else (another former Spanish colony?) might find the idea an ideal means to tweak Uncle Sam.
The UN, of course, would be all too eager to spend buckets of money (mostly ours) investigating how we've gone wrong in upholding the treaty.
And, although every Puerto Rican I've even known was just tickled with their unique status, there is no telling what the UN might have to say about the proper course for an ethnic enclave off the coast and 'suffering under the yoke of 'gringo domination' (or something).
On the bright side, we could condemn the old building in Turtle Bay, pull diplomatic immunity from the UN, hand over a lot of newly empty hotel space in Puerto Rico, and perhaps let 'em both go together.
Yup. What are the odds that a 5-4 split of SCOTUS will recognize their authority?
No need to go before any court, you just hold an election. Its easy.
But, of course, then you’d have to accept the will of the people as determined by the vote, which guys like this most assuredly don’t want to do. He is venue-shopping, he’s looking for a judge to give him what his powers of persuasion and the will of his fellow citizens won’t give him.
If Congress, the Courts, and the FedGov respected the Constitution, statehood would equal independence. For Puerto Rico and the rest of the States.
Precisely! That is the whole concept of federalism the Constitution enshrines!
Mother Spain doesn’t like the Basque and Catalonian either.
Sadly, with the “New” amnesty bill being proposed they won’t need U.S citizenship.
No, but if they were an independent nation they would, at least, have to GET here.
I recall learning in school that a territory had to have at least 60,000 people before they could apply for statehood (not a problem for Puerto Rico). But as you say, there is nothing in the Constitution about this and it seems to come from an early law called the Northwest Ordinance.
THERE’S a Democrat I could vote for.
That became an enormous issue from 1820 on, because the Ordinance outlawed slavery in the new states admitted under its authority.
In other words, it created a legal presumption that a new state had to be a free state and that it had to have a population of 60,000 or more free individuals.
The Southern bloc in the Senate felt that it should be up to the prospective state to decide its free or slave status and that slaves should count fractionally toward that 60,000 number.
And the South wanted to admit New Mexico as a slave state before it even reached a total population of 60,000 after Wisconsin became the 30th state and the 15th free state.
Heck, even American Samoa has more than 60K residents.
It would wreck their economies to have US minimum wage laws imposed on them.
Thats not a valid comment regarding getting more value because of the Euro. For all You know, Spain will not give Puerto Rico one darn Euro for assistance. There is no love lost betweeen the two entities, just as Spain would not give Mexico two pesos, let alone a Euro.
However Hugo Chavez will be thrilled to shower PR with money and OiL!
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