Child rapists can't be executed, Supreme Court rules

CNN ^ | 2008-06-25

[supercat]

Cops tend to identify themselves as such.

All right, let me rephrase the question: Why is a cop who kicks down the door of 119 Hope Street, without a warrant authorizing such entry, not a burglar? The Supreme Law of the Land says that such entry is not legitimate. Illegitimate forcible entry is burglary.

The cop at the wrong door is a rare situation that could occur anywhere and one that is not symptomatic of govt. oppression.

The fact that police routinely and deliberately act in such a way as to prevent anyone from identifying them as police is symptomatic of government oppression. That there is no accountability when they do so unjustifiably is icing on the cake.

You're in bed, when you hear a loud crash and footsteps downstairs. You grab a gun. Suddenly you notice a dark figure that yells "POLICE". Is it more likely to be:

1. Real police, lawfully serving a warrant which is backed by oath or affirmation relating personal knowledge of the affiant sufficient to constitute probable cause that (1) a crime was committed; (2) evidence of the crime would be found via such a search; and (3) such evidence could only be found via surprise raid, or
2. Robbers who have enough functional brain cells to realize that yelling "police" is a good way to disarm their victims.

Who just entered? #1 or #2? Guess wrong and you die.

How is that reasonable?

[metmom]

Too bad.... They deserve it.

[Fred Nerks]

The NAACP Legal Defense Fund and the American Civil Liberties Union reminded the court of the "scourge of racial bias" that accompanied the execution of rapists during the middle part of the 20th century; nearly 90 percent of those executed were black.

Patrick Kennedy, 43, the subject of the appeal, raped his 8-year-old stepdaughter. She needed surgery.

WASHINGTON POST APRIL.

[buck jarret]

I have not heard that police constantly bust doors without warrants. I do not see how such behavior is in their interest.

It may be that it happens occasionally because of sloppiness, and occasionally in extremely low income or crime-ridden areas where they feel they will get away with it.

A cop does not need a warrant to make an arrest or search property if he has probable cause, which can be contested at a hearing later.

Police who make unlawful entrances can be held personally liable; that is why such behavior is against their interest.

I would assume it was the police if they showed me badge & warrant. In any situation, one cannot shoot first, think later. Police have to execute warrants, sometimes at night.

But that would never happen to me.

I don’t understand your fixation on this. We are not living in a police state.

[supercat]

Police who make unlawful entrances can be held personally liable; that is why such behavior is against their interest.

Explain why a cop who does such a thing is not a burglar, and should not be prosecuted as such.

I would assume it was the police if they showed me badge & warrant.

You have no time to examine the badge or warrant. Having just been woken up by the crash downstairs, you have one second to make your decision.

If you are suggesting that the intruder is more likely to be a cop than a robber, how is that not a clear example of tyranny? And if the intruder is more likely to be a robber, why disarm yourself? But that would never happen to me.

Kathryn Johnston (RIP), Ryan Fredrickson, and Corey Maye probably thought it would never happen to them either.

If "botched raids" were extremely rare, or even if it were apparent that those in power were taking measures to make them so, that would be fine. As it is, though, it seems more like those in power want the citizenry to be afraid of the government; some have even said as much. Is that not the essence of tyranny?

[buck jarret]

Burglary requires either theft or intent to commit a crime. Without that, it is trespassing.

Police have the duty & right to execute warrants. That isn’t “tyranny”; it is a necessary dangerous job for men braver than I.

Kathryn Johnston’s big mistake was living in a poor black neighborhood in a crime-ridden city. Black people, especially in poor areas, are no doubt much warier of police than I am. The cops in that situation were afraid and thus trigger-happy. And she shot first.

I really have no idea how police behave in poor drug-infested Southern cities. Poverty is certainly the context in which civil rights are most likely to be violated. But Johnston’s killers are going to prison.

I live in the most prosperous part of a working class town. The theft that my sister unfortunately experienced was the first home invasion in this neighborhood in quite a while. And it was a teenaged girl. She stole a few things that she could carry and ran off. Other than that, the only crime my family has experienced is a stolen bike in the mid 1990s and some tools taken from the garage in the early 1980s (blamed on the maid.) The cops here don’t bother people like me. In my neighborhood, I have only occasionally seen cops sitting in their cars at a nearby park.

I don’t have a gun anyway.

I am not sympathetic to the guy who shot the cop who was busting his drugs and was convicted of murder. As I see it, he committed felony murder. And I would believe the cops when they say that they announced themselves. The last thing they want to do is surprise a person who may be armed.

To a certain extent, yes we should be afraid of the power of govt. I saw a program on TV about the tent jail of Sherriff Joe Arpaio in Phoenix. It has a flashing neon sign that says “Vacancy,” like an old roadside motel. And that is true. Every prison always has a vacancy, so one should stay on the straight and narrow.

[Vicki]

I have a close friend that endured this as a child. She has never had a normal life. She has never moved away from home, never married, never had children, never had a normal relationship with a man. He took her life away. His life needed to be taken.

[supercat]

Burglary requires either theft or intent to commit a crime. Without that, it is trespassing.

And what exactly would the police who unlawfully break into a dwelling be expecting to do therein?

Police have the duty & right to execute warrants. That isn’t “tyranny”; it is a necessary dangerous job for men braver than I.

Serving warrants in reasonable fashion after they have been obtained based upon an affiant's personal knowledge sufficient to justify probable cause is a proper police function. Obtaining warrants based upon hearsay, however, seems to be far more common. While most warrants are probably served in reasonable fashion, a lot of them aren't.

Kathryn Johnston’s big mistake was living in a poor black neighborhood in a crime-ridden city.

Living someplace one can afford is a "mistake"? Why weren't her murderers prosecuted for felony murder?

I really have no idea how police behave in poor drug-infested Southern cities. Poverty is certainly the context in which civil rights are most likely to be violated. But Johnston’s killers are going to prison.

For something like five years, IIRC. And I doubt they'll have to worry about the general population.

I am not sympathetic to the guy who shot the cop who was busting his drugs and was convicted of murder. As I see it, he committed felony murder. And I would believe the cops when they say that they announced themselves. The last thing they want to do is surprise a person who may be armed.

The police simultaneously claim that they announced themselves, and that the raid was "compromised" when somebody in the house apparently noticed their presence. Does not compute.

[buck jarret]

If someone is on your property with a can of paint, that is burglary. If someone is just there doing nothing, that is trespassing. Police who enter a dwelling without a warrant may or may not be guilty of a crime, depending on other circumstances.

Kathryn Johnston’s death does seem to have been a felony murder. However, cops take on a large amount of risk on behalf of others. That is a mitigating factor that is taken into account when they are punished for crimes. Society needs police who will risk their lives every day. Juries will rarely convict them on anything. It is a victory that her killers are going to prison at all.

It is well known that everywhere, throughout history, the poor get the short end of the stick. Kathryn Johnston is just an example of that. She was just a casualty of the drug war, living in the middle of it.

No-knock warrants may be issued too often.

If you are innocent like Ms. Johnston, and the police falsely or mistakenly execute a no knock warrant on you, and you shoot a cop, you shouldn’t be prosecuted, but if the police are not aware of the mistake, they can also shoot you. Bad things happen sometimes.

However, one does not have the right to shoot at police if they properly identify themselves.

[Loud Mime]

Your focus on ad hominems are visible to all the freepers. They can read our postings and decide for themselves.

[Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit]

LOL He is sighing in his grave.

[fortheDeclaration]

The idea is that a death penalty for child rape gives the rapist incentive to murder the victim to eliminate a witness. However, the reason the Supremes don't like a death penalty is that the monster might not have intended the death of victim so the death penalty is not justified. That along with some other crap (doesn't know right from wrong, diminished capacity, etc.) is about asinine reason I have ever heard for not wasting the bastards.

Child rapists aren't concerned about anything but inflicting pain.

Pedophila is being treated as a 'mental' problem when it is a vile crime that needs to be dealt with the death penalty.

A nation that cannot defend and protect its own children doesn't deserve to exist as a nation.

[Little Ray]

Yes, but we’re intertested in keeping the child alive - he’ll get better eventually.

Still, it is none of the Supreme Court’s business how a state disposes of child rapists.