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To: stand watie
actually, have you READ "Miller" from 1939?

I realize you didn't direct this question to me, but I'll answer anyway. :-)

Why yes, I have. At my website, you'll find the most complete treatment of U.S. v. Miller on the net. It includes more applicable documents than you can shake a stick at.

otoh, "crudely sawed-off 16 guage shotguns" are NOT militia weapons (according to Miller, those weapons which are "suitable for defense of self, home, state & nation".), but "rather criminal instrumentalities, suitable to rob a liquor store"."

While the quotes you mentioned aren't actually in Miller, the essense of them are what Scalia was speaking to. The only reason that sawed-off shotguns were not considered by the court to be "militia weapons", was because they weren't informed of the utility of such weapons in the trenches of France during (the somewhat recently concluded at the time) WWI. In fact, their use in battle was so common they had a vernacular name assigned to them of "trench gun". The reason the court wasn't told about this was because neither Miller, nor his attorney showed up in court because Miller was dead, and as such had more pressing concerns.

As I stated in an earlier post, the most glaring omission in all of this is the complete absence of the phrase "letters of marque and reprisal", which only makes sense if private citizens have the right as free men to own cannon, warships, andother non-common instruments of war.

1,039 posted on 06/26/2008 10:33:44 PM PDT by zeugma (Mark Steyn For Global Dictator!)
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To: zeugma; All
you are CORRECT. the quote is NOT in Miller, but in one the pleadings of the US Attorney's office, upon which the USSC relied.

have you every SEEN a picture of the "short barreled shotgun" in question??? - i have seen a picture of it.

it was a 16 guage, single-barrel, RUSTY,CRUDELY sawed-off piece (the barrel was cut off even with the fore-end & the stock was cut off into a "pistol grip") of JUNK made by "Old River Hardware Company" (obviously NOT a well-known manufacturer of FINE firearms!!! = CHUCKLE!), which might well have been about as lethal on the shooter as on the intended target.

"the Miller gun" was NOT in any real sense "a trench broom", but was ACCURATELY described (imVho)as a "criminal instrumentality, especially suitable to use only as a weapon of intimidation in an armed robbery".

fwiw, in my 4 decades "behind the badge" i have seen NUMEROUS cases where a criminal has taken a perfectly ordinary, innocous piece of property & converted it into a "criminal instrumentality. for example a peewee league baseball bat with a handfull of NAILS driven into it is no longer suitable to play ball with, but makes a "perfectly acceptable tool" with which to commit a criminal assault.

free dixie,sw

1,061 posted on 06/27/2008 8:01:29 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to TYRANTS is OBEDIENCE to God. T. Jefferson, 1804)
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