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To: pby
Maybe some are Christians (most are probably not), but...they are either duped, decieved, spiritually immature, and/or completely lacking in spiritual discernment.

Agreed.

I should have said that it is impossible for a Christian to be part of their endorsement and/or advancement and still be pleasing to God.

Agreed.

Christ's purpose was not political and I never said that it was. But when we are aligned with Christ, through saving faith, our hearts and minds are renewed and transformed so that we do not find the "hope" and "change" offered by a socialist homosexual-agenda-pushing abortionist acceptable or appealing.

I agree with that too.

Man...you seem to be all over the place.

I have ADD. :)

So don't bring up politics when giving the Gospel. I find your comment really strange, anyways. So...do you hold to a firm position on anything lest someone be offended? The entire article is about left wing "Christians" voting for Obama. McLaren and his ilk are not afraid to espouse their false teachings and opinions - political and/or otherwise.

And we should confront them and correct them for Christ's sake not for a political party's sake. My concern is that the face of Christianity in popular culture is political and centered around abortion and homosexuality and that's not the core of Christianity.

Do we have free will in accepting grace? I believe so and if that's the case then it would seem to matter how we are perceived. If we have no free will in this regard then it doesn't matter.

Before I was saved I had a negative view of Christianity because I didn't understand it. When I was at the lowest point in my life I was loved by real Christians and my eyes were opened to Christ and I accepted Christ. (I was raised as a "Christian" but didn't have a relationship with Christ and became atheist during my early adulthood.)

Besides...The Gospel is offensive in itself. The world hates Christ and His Gospel. It will offend them. Does that prevent you from giving the biblical Gospel?

Of course I wouldn't be prevented from sharing the Gospel because it is offensive, but I disagree that it is offensive. I think it's beautifull.

And...I think that some people are more concerned, today, about not potentially offending people than they are about not offending God.

You may be right about that, and that's a problem.

By the way McLaren does not believe: in a literal hell, that homosexuality is a sin, that the Church has ever presented the real Gospel, that Universalism is virtuous, that the rapture will occur, and many other key doctrines of historic orthodox Christianity. He is not one to follow. In fact, Romans tells us to mark him and avoid him.

By the way, to believe that you could come between someone and their salvation is, I believe, biblically impossible. Read John 6:38-44, John 1:12, and Acts 13:48. All that the Father gives to the Son will come to Him and He will raise them up at the last day. Man cannot thwart the work of God and salvation is a work of God.

I won't disagree with that but something I'm confused about is the importance of being a witness if there is no effect (besides obviously being commanded to do so). Honestly that confuses me.

There are people in my bible study group who have differing positions on free will and it allways seems to come up.

So...you agree that it would be a mistake for a Christian to vote for Obama, now?

I allways have. When did I suggest otherwise? Again my very broad point is that I have concerns about our faith and politics.

Earlier, you seemed to be advocating that it would be "throwing stones" to make such a judgement. Don't you think that some people mind find your judgement offensive?

The "throwing stones" comment was in regards to the point that Christians don't sin.

Guilliani got no traction as a Republican candidate because of his liberal views and Schwartzeneggar is bankrupting Califorinia - fiscally and morally. Christian or non-Christian, alike, are crazy for supporting either of these gentleman.

I agree with that.

79 posted on 07/03/2008 9:37:47 AM PDT by Free Descendant
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To: Free Descendant

Let me be clear, I’m not in any way suggesting that we don’t stand against abortion and homosexuality. But perhaps we should broaden the topics that we engage the culture in. The bigger issue is salvation. We could eliminate both of those and everyone is still condemned without Christ.


80 posted on 07/03/2008 9:42:00 AM PDT by Free Descendant
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To: Free Descendant
My concern is that the face of Christianity in popular culture is political and centered around abortion and homosexuality and that's not the core of Christianity.

Regardless of someone's possible pereception, it is a Christian's God given duty to call evil "evil" and to make sure that we do not endorse or advance that evil. Unfortunately, abortion and homosexuality are two evils that the world is foisting on us as normative and good.

Of course I wouldn't be prevented from sharing the Gospel because it is offensive, but I disagree that it is offensive. I think it's beautifull.

"If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you" (John 15:18-19).

"And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed" (John 3:19-20).

"The world . . . hates Me because I testify of it that its works are evil" (John 7:7).

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." (1 Corinthians 1:18)

"For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. 16 To the one we are the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the aroma of life leading to life. And who is sufficient for these things?" (2 Corinthians 2:15-16)

I won't disagree with that but something I'm confused about is the importance of being a witness if there is no effect (besides obviously being commanded to do so). Honestly that confuses me.

Don't be confused...It is God's work that does the saving, but we are the feet that carry the Good News. Our job is to be faithful to the Gospel...God has everything under control...He is building His Church.

The "throwing stones" comment was in regards to the point that Christians don't sin.

I didn't say that Christians don't sin. I said that Romans 6 says that we are free from sin (meaning its eternal consequence and its power/victory over us).

81 posted on 07/03/2008 11:02:39 AM PDT by pby
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