Posted on 07/10/2008 9:28:11 AM PDT by xzins
(Published July 10, 2008) CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. — Marine Sgt. Ryan Weemer hoped his battle experience in Fallujah and other Iraqi hot zones would pave the way to a job in the Secret Service.
Instead, the 25-year-old is among three Marines charged with murdering unarmed captives in November 2004, during some of the heaviest house-to-house fighting of the Iraq war.
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Weemer is due in a Camp Pendleton courtroom Thursday for a daylong preliminary hearing, known as an Article 32 hearing, before an investigating officer who will determine whether there is sufficient evidence to support court-martialing the Marine on one count of murder and six counts of dereliction of duty.
The case first came to light when Weemer allegedly described the killing during an interview with the Secret Service after being asked during a polygraph test whether he had participated in a wrongful death.
Military prosecutors claim Weemer, of Hindsboro, Ill., fatally shot an Iraqi after his squad leader grew irate that AK-47 rifles were found in a house the detainees claimed was free of weapons.
The squad leader, Jose Nazario Jr., 27, of Riverside, Calif., has been charged with two counts of voluntary manslaughter in the killing of two captives "upon a sudden quarrel and a heat of passion." Because he has already completed his military service, the former sergeant is scheduled to be tried in August in federal court.
A third Marine, 26-year-old Sgt. Jermaine Nelson of New York, is slated to be court-martialed in December on charges of unpremeditated murder and dereliction of duty.
A naval investigator testified during Nelson's Article 32 hearing in March that the Marine told him Nazario was getting radio commands to hurry up inside the house and demanded that Nelson and Weemer help him kill all four captives rather than take them along.
Defense lawyers for Nazario say the prosecutors' case lacks physical evidence. Last month, Nelson and Weemer were jailed for refusing to testify against Nazario before a federal grand jury believed to be investigating the case.
Both were released July 3 and returned to Camp Pendleton, where they are working in a non-combat capacity.
The killings on Nov. 9, 2004, came after the squad captured men they believed had been shooting at them from a house.
A year after those alleged shootings, a different squad from the same company - Kilo Company, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division - was involved in the killings of 24 civilians in Haditha, Iraq, in November 2005 after a roadside bomb hit a Marine convoy.
The Haditha case was the largest criminal prosecution to emerge from the Iraq war as eight Marines initially were charged with murder or failing to investigate. Charges were dropped or dismissed against six, however, and one, an officer, was acquitted of charges that he failed to investigate. Only squad leader Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich, of Meriden, Conn., still faces voluntary manslaughter and other charges.
Ping to Weemer Art 32 background.
Sorry about not deleting the advertising blurb in the middle of the article.
We are going to destroy the lives of three of our best and most honorable men because of decisions made in combat.
Soon there will be no more good and brave men left to stand between us and the hoards eager to rape and pillage our once strong country.
Sometimes, the manner in which they charge someone demonstrates vindictiveness. That’s the case with 6 charges of dereliction of duty. They are all add-on, pile-on picayunish charges designed simply to get someone.
It also, very strongly indicates to me a real lack of confidence in their murder charge.
I’m really tired of the “let’s get ‘em” mentality of these military prosecutors. I’d like to see some of them demonstrate a “let’s strive for truth” attitude.
Does anyone honestly think that we should put a combat injured soldier in prison, when we can’t prove he committed any murder, but we we can maybe build a case that he didn’t follow proper procedures? (Specification 4: was derelict in the performance of his duties in that he willfully failed to follow paragraph 3.a (Basic Principles of the Law of War) of enclosure (2) of Marine Corps Order 3300.4. (Marine Corps Law of War Program). )
Hoping these charges will be nipped in the bud at this Art 32. These type prosecutions have got to come to an end.
Ping
Thanks Red.
Ok...that part really confused me in the article.
Ah..I should have read your post first :)
I guess we will know more in August after the fed court has there say in the matter.
I'm not jumping to any conclusions here, but if this if this is what happened:
A naval investigator testified during Nelson's Article 32 hearing in March that the Marine told him Nazario was getting radio commands to hurry up inside the house and demanded that Nelson and Weemer help him kill all four captives rather than take them along.
Then there is a problem here. Killing unarmed prisoners is not acceptable. But, at least at first glance, the prosecution case seems pretty weak. We shall see.
At first, I thought it was an ad directed at working moms going back to college who needed help slimming down and cracking the code of sexual chemistry. Then I realized it just lacked punctuation.
Yes, we shall.
Looking for the first reports on today’s hearing. Haven’t seen anything yet. I hope the NC Times gets it first since the AP is banned.
The NCIS has been less than honest and neutral in their investigations of Marines of alleged wrong doing in combat situations. This has been going on for over two years.
The statement I made was not made lightly. If you would like some background and info on this you can visit:
Agreed the case is very weak. The investigator’s testimony was total hearsay—what someone told the investigator he understood someone else said.
Meanwhile, the radio operator at the scene denies the communication took place.
We’ll see what the judge makes of all this.
Daydreaming ... ...
What would happen if all of these Marines, once cleared through dropping the charges or adjudication, brought their own UCMJ Sub Chapter X claims for:
Thanks for the info, Red and all.
Somewhat. I know the Haditha charges turned out to be baseless.
That being said, I have faith in the UCMJ. It is my understanding that protections for the accused under that system are better than in the civilian courts.
Too bad that didn't read "heresy". That way, when I'm burning the SOB at the stake, and I laugh in fiendish glee, my conscience will still be clear. :-)
:)
I wouldn't be betting my life on that one, CYA and political appeasement will get you that life sentence in Leavenworth.
The issue of guilt/innocence won't matter. Scapegoating wins the day.
I already apologized in post #2, you....you....PERFECTIONIST.....you
I already apologized in post #2, you....you....PERFECTIONIST.....you
Here's another Federal Grenade Toss that shows just how far from the constitution we've allowed it to stray.
Careful, Chaplain -- Perfection is a fault, and we all KNOW lilly don't have any faults. Just ask her. ;^)
Good one, brit!
Actually, I can’t take credit for it; I was repeatedly bashed over the head with that saying from my EX-Sis-in-law years back, and never forgot! And she called me hard-headed. Humpf!!
I can’t even post a thread...so I would never throw the first stone (but I saw Girlene w/a box of rocks)
I'd be proud to be on that jury with you should the day ever come.
I love your way with words, BHF, I think I could do that too. :-)
'Debate' preceded Fallujah killings, Teri Figueroa, North County Times
CAMP PENDLETON ---- A veteran of a legendary battle in Iraq told a Secret Service agent that he and fellow Marines "really debated" before following a suggestion that they kill four detainees.
"It's not something anybody wants to do," Sgt. Ryan Weemer told the agent during a 2006 job interview. "We ended up shooting them."
Weemer allegedly said during the interview that he was aware of unlawful killings occurring during house-to-house fighting during the height of a battle for what was then the insurgent stronghold city of Fallujah in Iraq's Anbar province. His admissions led to a probe by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service.
On Thursday, military prosecutors played the recording of the statement that landed Weemer in a Camp Pendleton courtroom, charged with murder and dereliction of duty for the deaths of captured and disarmed enemy fighters.
On the tape, Weemer says he killed one of the captives.
"I took one guy," Weemer is heard saying. "Told my team I couldn't have anything to do with this anymore. I left."
The 25-year-old appeared to have little reaction as he listened to the recording.
Weemer, who had left the Marine Corps before the Secret Service job interview, was recalled to duty to face the charges.
He was in court for a hearing to determine what evidence prosecutors have and whether there is sufficient cause to order him to court-martial.
Three men from the base's 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, including Weemer, face homicide charges arising out of actions by their squad on Nov. 9, 2004.
Weemer and another Marine, Sgt. Jermaine Nelson, are charged with the unlawful killings of one insurgent each.
Former Marine Jose Nazario is charged with two counts of voluntary manslaughter in the incident. Nazario was ineligible for recall into the service. His case is being handled in federal court and his trial is set for August.
An affidavit filed by Naval Criminal Investigative Service Special Agent Mark Fox when Nazario was indicted said the agency's investigation showed the Fallujah killings occurred after Nazario radioed in that his squad had detained four suspected insurgents. Fox wrote that Nazario shot two detainees in the head and directed Weemer and Nelson to shoot the others.
Weemer's hearing is set to continue into Thursday afternoon. At its conclusion, the presiding military officer will write a report stating whether he believes the case should move forward to court-martial, be dismissed or have some form of administrative action taken.
A final decision rests with Camp Pendleton's Lt. Gen. Samuel Helland, head of Marine Corps forces throughout the Middle East.
oh, boy. The quotes from the tape don’t give the background from Sgt. Weemer, himself, as to “why” he says they shot them. I wonder if that part was taped and played.
Agreed. Waiting for a fuller report tonight. The first reports are always the worst, the most slanted toward the prosecution.
FTC=Fleece The Citizens?
That’s right and this was definitely only the prosecution side, I wonder if Teri will report on what’s said for the defense?
Thanx Jaz, I love the language. I had a high school English teacher who really opened my mind to the wonders of it all. I have lots of fun with it. I had a Classical Lit. prof. in college who reliterated the wonders of it all, so much so I took his poetry course.
Thanks Mrs. Irwin, Sophomore English teacher, Meeker high School, Meeker, CO, somewhere in the ‘70’s
And thanks Mr. Donald Decker, Ricks College, RIP
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that things happened as the charges say. What were their options in one of the most viscous battles since WWII? Remember that all of the Marines' lives are in the balance, one mistake and they don't come home.
A) Take 4 prisoners with them and have some squad members control them leaving the squad slower, distracted, weaker and open to discovery.
B)Split the squad and have some Marines guard the prisoners until some unknown time in the future leaving both groups under strength and at high risk of being taken prisoner and/or killed.
C)The entire squad stay where they are, compromising the mission and guard the prisoners until some unknown time in the future when they could be releived of the prisoners, unless of course they weren't killed or captured after other units continue.
D)Leave the prisoners restrained, hoping they wouldn't be released by other terrorists and return to the fight.
E)Release after securing a promise from the terrorists that they will sit out the rest of the battle.
Again, assuming the charges are true, I'm not sure that's really a defense. I can't see any way American soldiers can kill unarmed prisoners legally. Tough spot to be in, I agree, but we are supposed to be the good guys- killing unarmed prisoners isn't something American soldiers should be allowed to do without punishment.
Well, we ARE the good guys and if the prisoners were killed as charged I believe that it was done out of necessity and is excusable. Please remember that the enemy has tortured and slaughtered every American, civilian and Military, captured in the war, save a few at the beginning and 1 that escaped. Also remember that the enemy has kidnapped and murdered hundreds to thousands of muslims and routinely kills innocents by bomb, bullet and blade as a matter of course.
Congress is clearly using these find men as fodder to discourage other fine men and women from a productive career in the Marine Corp.
We must help Congress FAIL in their pursuit of the destruction of our armed forces to further their own nefarious agenda against the greatest country ever devised by man and God!
July 10, 2008 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Motions Hearing Scheduled in Fallujah Investigation
CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. (July 10, 2008) - A motions hearing for Sergeant Jermaine A. Nelson will be held Monday at 8 a.m. here. Nelson is charged with unpremeditated murder and dereliction of duty forhis alleged involvement in the death of a detained individual duringcombat operations in Fallujah, Iraq on Nov. 9, 2004. Nelson was assigned to 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment at the time. Charges were referred to general court-martial May 12, 2008.
It is anticipated the proceedings will take one day and will bebroadcast into the Camp Pendleton Media Center.
That is not the issue.
The issue is that SGT Nazario, the main Marine charged, has said that this incident never happened at all.
Adding credibility to his story is that the house where this supposedly occurred had its owners return. They were interviewed and they said that after their return they NEVER found any blood, any anything toindicate that something like this happened.
There are no bodies, there is no crime scene, there is a radio operator who says he never had any such conversation, there is no log of any radio conversation like that taking place, and there is no one saying that it di..
What you have is the "war story" of 2 guys that is disputed by others and with zero -- absolutely zero -- forensic evidence. And now, those 2 guys have refused to talk.
I think it could be a "reconstructed memory" of bits and pieces of terrible war memories, a heavy dose of PTSD, an overzealous NCIS investigator, and prosecutors who are hoping to make names for themselves.
I am extremely interested in how Weemer's defense lawyer is going to present Weemer's case. I think he'll simply say that Weemer's memory was wrong, and that he recants his story as a post-war fabrication that was told so many times around the unit campfire that he came to believe it.
I believe others read these threads and assume that no matter what the crime, we cheer for the Marine/Soldier charged.
I do hope your analysis holds true, as it is the only scenario that fits all the facts gleaned to date.
That said, we can also be grateful that this came out the way that it did; Weemer will not be joining the Secret Service in any event, nor should he. Either he (in his mind) "committed a criminal act", or (again, in his mind) embellished and retold a 'war-story' -- so that he has proven himself ineligible for any position in that storied agency.
CB: what is your background that you are so conversant on this, having just signed up today? Welcome aboard!
Nazario is innocent. Weemer is innocent. Nelson is innocent.
Bump that!!!
Yes, but even when some have been found guilty (I can think of a couple) I still believe they were wronged.
I agree
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