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1 posted on 07/10/2008 7:36:59 PM PDT by tobyhill
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To: tobyhill
ACLU and "Journalist" don't like the law.. Yep,.. birds of a feather.

A British ditty from the beginning of the last century:

"You do not have
To bribe or twist
The arm
Of the British journalist.
Considering what he would do
Unasked
There is no reason to."

This, of course, applies equally to the American BlameStreamMedia.

2 posted on 07/10/2008 7:43:46 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country! What else needs said?)
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To: tobyhill
I guess it is about time to determine who is with us and who is against us. It would appear that the ACLU is an extension of AQ in the USA. Time for them to go.
3 posted on 07/10/2008 7:46:15 PM PDT by ANGGAPO (LayteGulf BeachClub)
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To: tobyhill

Summertime at the Ranch there are an abundance of flies. I’ve often wondered what good the damned things are. Other than feed for some birds and lizards they seem to exist simply to torture the animals and us. I’ve wondered if we could turn them into alternative fuels at times.

I’ve considered the ACLU in the same light as flies. Wondering what good the damned things are.


6 posted on 07/10/2008 7:55:19 PM PDT by rockinqsranch (Dems, Libs, Socialists...call 'em what you will...They ALL have fairies livin' in their trees.)
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To: tobyhill

there’s a legitimate concern about government use of the public media to ferrett out terrorists.

but i don’t understand why the libs wanted to set up the telephone co’s for lawsuits. that ain’t gonna fly.


7 posted on 07/10/2008 7:56:22 PM PDT by ken21 ( people die + you never hear from them again.)
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To: tobyhill
"Spying on Americans without warrants or judicial approval is an abuse of government power, and that's exactly what this law allows," ACLU Executive Director Anthony Romero said in announcing the suit.

The Fourth Amendment: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

9 posted on 07/10/2008 8:05:51 PM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP (Make all taxes truly voluntary)
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To: tobyhill

I have never understood why the administration couldn’t go after terrorists in accordance with the limitations placed on it by FISA. Why does our government want to be able to operate in total secrecy, spy on whoever it wishes with no record? Doesn’t sound good to me. To protect our freedom, we must protect ourselves against our own government as well.

Yes, the ACLU does a lot of crazy things. But if this is right:

“The law lets government “conduct intrusive surveillance without ever telling a court who it intends to surveil, what phone lines and e-mail addresses it intends to monitor, where its surveillance targets are located, or why it’s conducting the surveillance,”

then I have to say I am in agreement with them. A secret government invites abuse of our rights. Remember, it may well be Marxist, terrorist-loving libs we’re giving this power to.


13 posted on 07/10/2008 8:16:39 PM PDT by vanishing liberty
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To: tobyhill

if the ACLU is ticked... then it is a good thing.


22 posted on 07/10/2008 8:42:25 PM PDT by Trajan88 (www.bullittclub.com)
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To: tobyhill; Libertarianize the GOP; SandRat; ken21; FFranco; vanishing liberty; Cboldt

NSA discovers imminent homeland threats from international communications involving one U.S. based party. Primary concern for detecting and preventing another 9/11 is over 200 billion minutes per year of calls between people here and in other countries. Also, NSA monitors greater volumes of entirely foreign communications. Self-proclaimed experts who say NSA computers operate from key words and routinely entrap calls among innocents overseas or across town speak nonsense. If calls average 10 minutes, a group of gifted, dedicated, eccentric professionals apply science and art to identify a handful of meaningful leads, covering terrorism and a multitude of other vital national security concerns, from background noise of 60 – 100 billion calls per year. The volume, velocity and variety of communications, means leads representing serious and continuing threats to our homeland can be so perishable they require immediate and continuous analysis. The President uses his Constitutional and statutory authority to authorize proceeding without warrant, because professional analysts we rely upon, judge a fleeting opportunity appeared to detect or prevent an attack. However, debate precludes realistic civil liberty and national security discussions.

Media and Democrat rhetoric uses the term “American”, but never “U.S. person”. Intelligence bills never use “American”, but the term “U.S. person”, which defines the party mentioned in laws governing intelligence. Should Osama bin Laden join 10 million plus illegal aliens utilizing myriad infiltration opportunities, he becomes legally protected as a ‘U.S. person”.

This country suffered a devastating civil liberties assault on 9/11, because the Constitution requires an invincible society within which freedoms exist. The first responsibility of federal government branches is to consider Alexander Hamilton’s admonition that power to defend our country exist without limitation, providing national defenses capable of thwarting dangers as well as responding to attacks. Robust intelligence gathering is inseparable from effective warfare, and inseparable from the 2001 authorization “to use all necessary and appropriate force”.

Critical counterterrorism intelligence measures have been degraded from the Terrorist Surveillance Program of 2005. New York Times provided priceless incites to terrorists for identifying operational vulnerabilities. Democrats feigned legislative and intelligence unawareness, and fabricated complacency about nuclear/biological/chemical warfare potentials. President Bush abandoned traditional Commander in Chief “warrantless” authority for archaic, dysfunctional FISA court pronouncements.

We must appreciate threats balanced with civil liberties using Hamilton’s vision of capabilities to withstand unforeseen perils. We cannot tolerate enemies exploiting our freedoms to establish a legal conduit through which to move personnel and material for a savage war against us.

Below is a link to General Michael Hayden’s remarks to the National Press Club on 1/23/06. The public should never received such extensive information on NSA activities. Such information should have remained limited to select members of Congress and the Executive branch. Our national security has been changed into a minor political prop.

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2006/01/hayden012306.html


26 posted on 07/10/2008 9:05:56 PM PDT by Retain Mike
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To: tobyhill
The anti-America Crowd doesn't like the idea the U.S is going to watch Al Qaeda's communications. Heck, even Obama thought the measure was important for our security.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

27 posted on 07/10/2008 9:13:45 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: tobyhill

When will we see this headline?

“ACLU Files Lawsuit and Draws Jail Time”


56 posted on 07/11/2008 3:50:35 AM PDT by shove_it (and have a nice day)
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To: tobyhill
Before I even attempt to read the posts... I truely believe that there does have to be a 'happy medium' here... I know that the majority here will relate to '1984', there also has to be some measure for the safety of the public... Sometimes, public monitoring is the only way to catch a crook in action.. or at least get a look at his face to be able to catch the SOB. Personally, I prefer to live in the countryside... and the possibility would be a minimum to any of those such acts... but for the people that choose (job reasons, or otherwise) to live in a town or city, then you might need additional protection/or at least proof to be able to track down the perpetrators.... (Hopefully, you will have the arm(s) necessary, and know how to use them, so that you (police) won't have to 'find' the bad guy ;) )
67 posted on 07/11/2008 6:33:03 AM PDT by Bikkuri
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To: tobyhill

Freedom, even at the expense of the mechanism that proves them with this freedom.

This is a damned if you do, damned if you don’t scenario. Bush will get criticized regardless of which road he chooses. A Democratic Congress and Senate approved it, yet the blind liberal media will always blame Bush and hide behind their rights.—

Responsible media is dead thanks to the NY TIMES and BSNBC.


79 posted on 07/11/2008 5:18:40 PM PDT by aclusux.com (visit my site at http://www.aclusux.com)
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