Riddle of Lusitania sinking may finally be solved

The Times (London) ^

[Rebelbase]

We entered WWI because the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

[LS]

Well, I gotcha beat: Both my granduncles were in the Imperial Army, one was a Big Bertha gun commander who got blown up by an Allied air raid. The other was a corporal, who survived, and became a burgermeister of a small town outside of Berlin until Hitler came on the scene, then he quit.

Here's the point: regardless of what the British "were" doing on the L, the U-boat captain had NO WAY of knowing that; certainly no record of heavy uses of passenger ships of this type, therefore it was still indefensible on his part. Regardless, the U.S. should have gone to war over the dozens of OTHER sinkings of neutral ships that the Germans engaged in.

[LS]

Those are the two AMERICAN ships (and one was all that was necessary to declare war, my friend). But there were hundreds of neutral ships or ships carrying passengers/neutrals that were no Americans. The fact that the Germans only resumed this as a desperation ploy suggests that they knew it was wrong. They didn’t dare take on the British navy, even with all their U-boats.

[LS]

Missing the point: it’s all after the fact, even if “true,” which I doubt. The U-Boat captain THOUGHT he was torpedoing a passenger ship, period.

[LS]

An ad saying something is dangerous, as per American courts, is not sufficient to relieve the other party of the consequences. This is pretty standard legal procedure. For ex., if you have a gun range and have signs up, but don't have a fence, forget it.

Attacking passenger ships is a no-no for any navy, at any time.

[LS]

Missing the point. The Germans didn't know there were munitions aboard (even if you believe this "evidence") and hence had no legitimate grounds for ever torpedoing a passenger ship. Moreover, since NO passenger ship ever fired on a U-boat, there was no reason not to surface and use the deck gun. And the sinking of American ships and those of neutrals was already enough provocation that we should have gone to war sooner than we did.

Reagan wouldn't have tolerated it for a minute.

[LS]

Sorry. Little legal disclaimers for PASSENGER SHIPS won't work. Even the Germans knew it was immoral and stupid, or they wouldn't have run disclaimers in the first place.

We should have declared war after they sank the Housatonic. Reagan would have.

[LS]

It depends entirely on what kinds of "munitions." It was understood by everyone, including the Germans, that small arms and uniforms, etc., were expected to be shipped. What was not accepted was heavy artillery, bombs, etc. That's what the debate is about. This guy doesn't have convincing evidence, but even if he did the U-boat captain did not know that the Lusitania had such munitions, and thereby was still guilty of torpedoing what he thought was a helpless passenger liner.

[LS]

Should have entered sooner. That’s what I said: Reagan would not have tolerated that crap.

[Oztrich Boy]

That's your proof? A book by a 5/7 Truther?

Almost all large passenger ships carried deck guns

No they didn't. Despire what a couple of German agents and a airhead broad(supposedly) claimed. If this woman existed, the steward was trying to get into her knickers.

THE ALLEGED ARMING OF LUSITANIA

[Alberta's Child]

Right. But British law probably wouldn’t apply, either. A case of this sort would have to come under either Irish law or international maritime law.

[Professional Engineer]

*snicker*

[null and void]

Still, they made it very clear that the promise to not attack passenger ships had expired, didn’t they?

I suppose if they hadn’t warned anyone, you’d hold that against them too, wouldn’t you?

Damned if you do, double damned if you don’t, eh?

[null and void]

We should have declared war after they sank the Housatonic. Reagan would have.

I rather doubt that.

[TheBattman]

So it really isn’t anyone’s property except the government of Ireland... What is the point of “buying” it then?

[LS]

No, I hold it against them that they were attacking passenger ships at all; that they handed out MEDALS for the sinking of the Lusitania, thinking it was ONLY a passenger ship, that they used Zepplins to bomb cities for the first time ever; that they were the first to use poison gas (yes, everyone had it---they were the first to use it); that they were the first to use flamethrowers against soldiers. They lined up hundreds of Belgian citizens---not soldiers---and shot them just like the Nazis would later do. They took one of ten civilians in Belgium hostage and killed them if a single soldier was shot by a "franc tireur."

This was a despicable society, and they deserved to lose.

[LS]

Reagan would have given ONE warning, after the Lusitania (1915) and I bet we would have been in the war the next year, because the Germans had no intention of heeding any warnings.

[null and void]

Nope.

Unlike you, Reagan was a great respecter of the Constitution.

The president has no authority to declare war.

I do agree that he would have cajoled congress, who does have the constitutional authority, into declaring war. And probably faster than Wilson, too.

[LAforme2008]

most likely he holds the “salvage” rights, which means that he can theoretically control who is allowed to dive the wreck, and holds the rights to any property removed from it.

But imagine that a private party owned the USS Arizona.

Would you want just anyone going down there and effectively graverobbing? Or would you want it protected as an historic/archaeological site?

[Harrius Magnus]

Coast to Coast AM with George Noory    
Saturday June 28th, 2008

Aleister Crowley, Secret Agent Man
Ian spoke with professor of history Dr. Richard Spence about his new book on Aleister Crowley, the "poster boy for 20th century occultism." Spence said Crowley was raised in a well-to-do, fundamentalist Christian home and received a Cambridge education. His most shocking revelation about the infamous occultist, however, involves Crowley's work as an operative for British naval intelligence.

Spence described Crowley as a daring mountain climber, looking for contact with the divine, and "not overly constrained by conventional morality." He mentioned the influential role Crowley's aunt played in his drift into secret service work, as well as an event that took place in Stockholm, Sweden. According to Spence, agent Crowley was there on his way to Czarist Russia.

Spence noted the relationship between politics and the occult during his discussion, and talked about Crowley's association with the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, an occult organization in Late Victorian Britain. It was the goal of certain dissident political (and occult) groups to bring about regime change in various European countries, including Britain. Crowley's role was as an undercover informant and provocateur, Spence noted.

Spence also discussed Crowley's secret mission to Canada under the pseudonym 'Clifford,' his association with the German Propaganda Cabinet in New York, as well as his possible involvement in the sinking of the RMS Lusitania (torpedoed by a German U-boat on May 7, 1915. Spence theorized that the passenger ship was sunk as part of a British plot to get the U.S. into the war.

-----------------------------------

I rest my case!