Posted on 07/24/2008 1:52:48 PM PDT by mbarker12474
CITY PRAYER POLICY UPHELD
Fredericksburg Free Lance - Star Fredericksburg Virginia
http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2008/072008/07242008/397448
Date published: 7/24/2008
BY AMY FLOWERS UMBLE
Fredericksburg City Council can keep Jesus Christ out of its prayers.
The 4th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals yesterday upheld the city's right to start its meetings with nonsectarian prayers.
Retired Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor sat on the three-judge panel hearing the case and wrote the opinion.
"She didn't feel my rights were being violated, but my rights are definitely being violated," said City Councilman Hashmel Turner, who filed the case. "It removed an opportunity for me to pray in the manner of my conviction and my belief."
Turner, a Baptist minister, sued fellow council members after the council adopted the policy in 2005. A resident's complaint about Turner's prayers and a threatened lawsuit prompted the city to change its policy.
Mayor Tom Tomzak said he personally respects Turner's right to pray in the name of Jesus Christ but that pragmatics overruled.
He and other council members simply wanted to protect the city from lawsuits, Tomzak said.
But he'd hoped the appeals court would offer a different opinion.
"I was hoping for more clarity," Tomzak said. "We need clarity on this, religion is such an important part of community life."
Lawyers from the Charlottesville-based Rutherford Institute filed suit for Turner and plan to appeal the case to the U.S. Supreme Court, said John Whitehead, the institute's director. The city is represented for free by the Hunton & Williams law firm and the People for the United Way Foundation.
"Religion is not the important issue in this case," Whitehead said. "The important issue is if the government has the right to decide who can speak in their meetings."
Turner's attorneys argued prayers held to open City Council meetings are not government speech and so are protected from free speech restrictions.
They also argued that because the council allows prayers which reference "Almighty God" and "Heavenly Father," getting rid of "Jesus Christ" equals discrimination, Whitehead said.
In the opinion, O'Connor wrote, "We hold that Fredericksburg's prayer policy does not violate Turner's Free Speech and Free Exercise rights."
She wrote that the city's policy makes the prayers more inclusive and does not violate Turner's First Amendment rights to free speech.
Whitehead said he didn't know how long it will be before lawyers are ready to take the case to the U.S. Supreme Court, but he said there was "a good chance" the case will be heard, with four conservatives and "a swing vote" on the bench.
"I don't believe the last say-so in the matter should be left up to Justice O'Connor, so I intend on going ahead to the Supreme Court," Turner said.
Amy Flowers Umble: 540/735-1973 Email: aumble@freelancestar.com
BACKGROUND OF THE PRAYER CASE 2002: The Rev. Hashmel Turner, a part-time Baptist minister, is elected to the Fredericksburg City Council. He enters the council's voluntary prayer rotation and when it's his turn to pray, he does so in the name of Jesus Christ.
2003: A Jewish resident complains about the prayers. 2004: The American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia threatens to sue if prayers continue to invoke Jesus' name. Turner voluntarily leaves the prayer rotation. 2005: The council adopts a nonsectarian prayer policy. Later, Turner re-enters the rotation. When his turn comes, Mayor Tom Tomzak replaces him with another council member. January 2006: Turner sues the city, saying the prayer policy violates his First Amendment rights. August 2006: A federal district court judge rules against Turner. March 2008: The case goes before the U.S. 4th Circuit Court of Appeals.
WHY JESUS? City Councilman Hashmel Turner has always prayed in the name of Jesus Christ, and he's not getting rid of the name to fit in with Fredericksburg's policy. "I will not compromise, I will not leave Jesus out of my prayer," he said. Turner said his conviction comes from the New Testament Scripture John 14:6, which ends with, "No one comes to the Father except through me." Many people don't understand the reference, Turner said, but he interprets it to mean that all things, especially prayer, must be done in the name of Jesus Christ. There is no specific Baptist rule requiring the words "Jesus Christ" be used in a prayer, said Steve Aycock, president of the Fredericksburg Baptist Association. "You can pray in the name of Jesus Christ without using the words, they're not a magic formula," Aycock said.
Read more stories about Fredericksburg Date published: 7/24/2008
In the opinion, O'Connor wrote, "We hold that Fredericksburg's prayer policy does not violate Turner's Free Speech and Free Exercise rights."
She wrote that the city's policy makes the prayers more inclusive and does not violate Turner's First Amendment rights to free speech.
The Fredericksburg Council and Sandra Day O'Conner endorse religions with inclusive deities. Reject deities offering only one way.... Bizarre....
I’m surprised that O’Connor didn’t quote some international ruling.
The city council can forbid Hashmel Turner from speaking on chicken soup.
It cannot forbid Hahmel Turner from speaking on Jesus Christ.
At least if we still go by the Constitution, which, apparantly, Sandra Day O’Conner and other judges haven’t bothered to read or study.
In any event, Jesus Christ will be the final judge of this. But it’d be nice, in the mean time, if our worldly arbiters of justices actually understood and practiced our temporal laws.
Mother of God! And in my beloved Virginia too! Precious Lord please save us from these ignorant heathens!
People who live in D.C. tend to take on their surroundings after a while. O’Connor was a good judge after Reagan appointed her to the bench. She changed over the years and moved more towards the center/left of center. I think that people are corrupted by the beltway living. They see their legacy more than they see their duties. When she started quoting international rulings in international courts, I knew she was a goner.
It is a sad day in America when I see rulings like this one.
I’ve been looking for the words “separation of church and state” in the constitution for years.
I must be blind too...
O’Connor wrote, “We hold that Fredericksburg’s prayer policy does not violate Turner’s Free Speech and Free Exercise rights.”
“these are not the droids you are looking for”....
Yes, He, Jesus Christ will be the Judge! As to prayer in His name, the Lord Himself said in Matthew 7:7, “Ask and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened to you.” And in John 14:14, “If ye shall ask any thing in My name, I will do it.........Please note the easy references, Matthew 7:7 and John 14:14..........
Acts 4:12 says: “Neither is there salvation in any other:for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” And above all, He made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion of a man He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God has also highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name. That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth.and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” (Philippins 2:9-11).
May we stand on God’s Words and not on man’s foolish imaginations and assumptions. Let us be JC not PC. (Jesus Correct vs Political Correct)
Oh, they know, they know all too well: They just don't care - or rather, they have successfully and deliberately conquered all aspects of traditional America, and will exact punishment for transgressions of the totalitarian humanist state.
“Turner, a Baptist minister”
Sweetheart, go pray in your own ‘church’—that way you’re only wasting your own time.
Assuming it is true that Turner is wasting his time by praying, it nevertheless remains true that the government is prohibited by the First Amendment from forbidding Turner to so waste his time in council chambers.....
By the way... the City of Fridericksburg violates the Constitution twice. First, it specifies that prayer must be non-sectarian (violating the establishment clause). Second, it forbids Hashmel Turner from uttering the name of Christ in prayer (violating the free-exercise clause).
And... two days after Jefferson sent the noted letter to the Danbury Baptists (where he used the famous “wall of separation between church and state” line, sympathizing with the Connecticut Baptists’ fear of their state’s prohibitions against undesired religious practices), Mr. Jefferson went to Christian worship services in the House of Representatives.
If Sandra Day O’Connor is a retired US Supreme Court Justice, Why is she sitting on a three judge panel of the 4th US Circuit???
How about this:
"Heavenly Father, Praise you.... Thank you for..... in Your Son's name, amen."
Prayer is not the time to preach.
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