Posted on 07/30/2008 4:08:36 PM PDT by LAforme2008
Well, then. According to Ephesians, Jesus taught heresy.
You are misconstruing what I am saying. I have already said it is clear in Scripture that God punishes. And I believe he punishes and judges sodomy, hypocrites, etc, just as he says in His Word.
But I am very suspicious of people who tell me they have a direct line to exactly what God is thinking or doing any given moment.
NO
1. You are misreading Mat 25, pay attention to the sheep and ask why they were separated before judgement.. Recall all that Christ said about His sheep and Him being a good shepherd.
2. What did Christ preach about salvation and judgement?
John 3:15 so that everyone who believes in Him will have eternal life. 16 "For God loved the world in this way: He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world that He might judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 Anyone who believes in Him is not judged, but anyone who does not believe is already judged, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 "This, then, is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who practices wicked things hates the light and avoids it, so that his deeds may not be exposed. 21 But anyone who lives by the truth comes to the light, so that his works may be shown to be accomplished by God."
Joh 5:24 "I assure you: Anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment, but has passed from death to life.
Joh 6:40 For this is the will of My Father: that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."...47 "I assure you: Anyone who believes has eternal life.
Does that clear up Mat 25 for you?
32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
But I am very suspicious of people who tell me they have a direct line to exactly what God is thinking or doing any given moment.
And rightfully so, we are instructed to watch for false prophets. But that is not what you said.
You said:The exception is when God tells us in his Word what something specific means. God is very clear in Scripture why Sodom was destroyed. But for a preacher to start preaching Florida or California is being punished or not punished - that’s not biblical.
Why do you say that the separation of the sheep from the goats comes BEFORE judgment? Seems to me that the separation is an expression of the judgment that has already occurred.
Note that in the passages you quote from John, that those who flee from the light do so BECAUSE their “deeds were evil.” And those who believe come into the light BECAUSE their deeds were good.
Certainly there is no example in Scripture of people who “believe” and are saved, while at the same time doing evil deeds.
Do you see any deference between works and fruits?
Let me ask you this, if you need to work your way to heaven why the cross? If your sins are forgiven and the price for them have been paid by Christ what are the works for?
Galatians 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"
Now on the other hand "you will know them by their fruits," is speaking of the works being a result of heart that has already been redeemed by Christ blood and now is walking as Christ did.
What I am saying is that good works does not lead to salvation but salvation leads to good works (the fruit from the heart)
Paul repeated Christ salvation message: Acts 16 30 He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household."
If you do good works for your own salvation they are not coming from the heart and are nothing but a selfish act on your part. But if you have secured your salvation by "Believe in the Lord Jesus" you do your works not to boaster yourself in God's eyes but because of love.
Do I make sense?
As a matter of fact, I do believe that good works are the fruit of grace. I also believe that no one can merit eternal life (i.e., an eternity in union with the Trinity) without grace, and that without the death and resurrection of Jesus, there would be no grace available to us. All of this is taught by my church—Catholic.
But bad deeds are the result of free will, and good deeds are the result of free will. Thus, it is worthwhile to exhort people to repent, change their ways, obey the commandments, do good works, etc. These exhortations do not contradict the foregoing propositions about grace.
Matthew 7:16
By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
7:17
Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
7:18
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
7:19
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
7:20
Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
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