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Plant Prejudice vs. the Constitution
PatriotPost.US ^ | Aug 13, 2008 | Jacob Sullum

Posted on 08/13/2008 6:30:00 PM PDT by microgood

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To: TWohlford
So, yeah, I’d love to legalize MJ. I don’t smoke it, although I tried it a few times and I DID inhale and I kinda enjoyed it. Still, can anyone show me where we can legalize the stuff and not have MORE problems than we have now?

Doesn't anyone remember the idea of a Republic, or the Founder's idea of the "laboratories of democracy" anymore? Why is it people automatically assume that whatever the solution to a particular problem is, it has the be the same solution for everyone?

21 posted on 08/13/2008 6:59:11 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: yldstrk
medical mary jane is a canard

Perhaps, but it doesn't make any difference anyway. This is appropriately a state matter, and the writer, who's probably a pothead, is perfectly correct in nailing McCain for hypocritically failing to take a federalist position.

22 posted on 08/13/2008 7:01:09 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: TWohlford
There’s been a lot of progress since then, including a synthetic pill form of the same ingredients of MJ. There is no reason to buy pot for “medicine”.

Actually there are several problems with Marinol with respect to cancer patients. One is that it requires the patient to ingest it, which is not always possible with chemotherapy patients. Another is that there the active ingredients released in smoking consist of more than just THC, which is all that Marinol has in it. Finally, ingested drugs take longer to take effect and release a lower dosage into the system.

Some people have gotten around the negative issues caused by smoking pot by using vaporizers, but those have been outlawed by the drug warriors in many states. The pharmeceutical companies are now working on aerosols which do provide the correct dosage immediately so what you imply may be true sometime in the future.
23 posted on 08/13/2008 7:01:22 PM PDT by microgood
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To: microgood

This is the way any federal trial goes. Did you or did you not sell MJ? Anything else is not allowed unless it is evidence that you did NOT sell MJ. Your reasons why don’t matter, and there is no discussion of mitigating circumstances until sentencing.

Also, in fed trials I have watched, the defense can only bring up topics the prosecution brings up, defense can’t bring up a new topic. So the cancer patient was not allowed to bring up a new topic.

Sentencing itself is constrained by mandated point systems- so many points (or levels) for this and so many for that, minus points for mitigating circumstances- so (I’m making up the numbers because I don’t have the guidelines open), four levels for possession, eight levels for possessing more than five ounces, ten levels for possession with intent to sell, ten levels for actual sale, and minus five levels because you pled guilty adds up to seventeen levels which translates to X months in Club Fed. The mandated system came about because people on both sides were screaming about too harsh or too lenient decisions from judges, so they developed a rigorous setup of levels and points that pretty much ties judge’s discretion.

Want legal or decriminalized pot? Stop voting for Drug Warrior candidates. As long as being tough on pot gets votes, and being soft on pot loses elections, we will get more and better Drug Warriors who will pass laws and appoint judges so that we get more Drug War.


24 posted on 08/13/2008 7:04:51 PM PDT by DBrow
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To: DBrow
Want legal or decriminalized pot? Stop voting for Drug Warrior candidates. As long as being tough on pot gets votes, and being soft on pot loses elections, we will get more and better Drug Warriors who will pass laws and appoint judges so that we get more Drug War.

If you want drug warriors, elect them at the state level and let them do it there. We need to get the federal government out of it. The abuse of the Commerce Clause is out of control, and we can't stop it we're complicit in it.

25 posted on 08/13/2008 7:11:35 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: TWohlford
2. We follow the Amsterdam example. We legalize it, grade it, tax it. We then get drug parties in parks, still get theft and violence, and still have people ruining not only their lives, but the lives of their families. We still don’t solve the problem.

No, but even in the heavily-controlled environment called prison "the problem" is not solved. People ruin their lives and careers over all sorts of stupid things (Edwards, and one could hope for Redfriend and Strident).

I'm not as notoriously libertarian as W.F. Buckley though I've subscribed to his magazine for more years than I have digits but... this solution is not only not working, it's fueling other political/social elements even more poisonous to and destructive of our culture.

Legalization has its problems. It's fair to say that one boundary on the extent of the issue was set in China in the 1900s with the ban on opium.

26 posted on 08/13/2008 7:14:12 PM PDT by sionnsar (Impeach Obama |Iran Azadi| 5yst3m 0wn3d - it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY) | UN: Useless Nations)
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To: worst-case scenario
On what do you base this assertion?

On the same lies all of the failed drug warriors perpetuate.
27 posted on 08/13/2008 7:17:16 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: tacticalogic

“We need to get the federal government out of it. “

Stop electing Federal Drug Warriors!

I’ll bet that all of the presidential candidates with the exception of the Libertarians and maybe Peace and Freedom would be Warriors, at least on paper.

And Senate candidates usually are, even Boxer and DiFi vote for tough laws.

When a candidate loses because of his tough stance on pot laws, the next dozen candidates will have changed their minds.

Bottom line is, we have the laws we have because a majority of Americans want it that way and support politicians who promise to keep it that way.

Otherwise they simply would not get elected.


28 posted on 08/13/2008 7:20:41 PM PDT by DBrow
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To: DBrow
Bottom line is, we have the laws we have because a majority of Americans want it that way and support politicians who promise to keep it that way.

As long as it's about the pot, instead of about the Constitution it will probably stay that way.

Do they not understand or not care what the cost is in terms of damage to republic as an institution, and corrosion to the balance of powers?

29 posted on 08/13/2008 7:25:58 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: microgood
Plant Prejudice vs. the Constitution

The Constitution is written on it.

DuPont and King Cotton didn't care much for it.

Ask Anslinger about it turning you into a homicidal maniac.. Just lookit all the people Willie Nelson has murdered.

30 posted on 08/13/2008 7:28:37 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist (I will stand with the Muslims ~B Hussein Obomunist ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Verito Possumus~Verified Sleeper!)
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To: bluegirl
If they can take heroin and make a useful drug that is available by prescription, why can’t that be done with marijuana?

Heh. Is this a joke?
The questions answers itself.

Marijuana has no valid medical use. Narcotics do.
and they do not take heroin and make it into a useful drug.

They make opiate derived drugs from opium, or they manufacture a totally synthetic equivalent thereof.

31 posted on 08/13/2008 7:33:18 PM PDT by bill1952 (Obama-the only one who can make me vote McCain McCain-the only one who can make me stay at home)
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To: rom

I don’t care what anyone ingests or does as long as it doesn’t affect me.

That means people can do all the drugs they like as long as they can fulfil their obligations - job, family, etc.

I don’t want to hear about “education,” “treatment,” “I’m sick,” etc. If they can’t support their kids, take ‘em and adopt them out.

/rant


32 posted on 08/13/2008 7:34:32 PM PDT by PLMerite ("Unarmed, one can only flee from Evil. But Evil isn't overcome by fleeing from it." Jeff Cooper)
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To: yldstrk

I never thought any of the kids that smoked in high school would be the kind of people to get far in life. Maybe I’ll actually go to my reunion just to see if thats true or not.


33 posted on 08/13/2008 7:35:51 PM PDT by FromShadow
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To: tacticalogic

Do they understand? Look at how people vote, who they vote for.


34 posted on 08/13/2008 7:37:09 PM PDT by DBrow
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To: sionnsar

“It slipped the leash long go. We no longer live under the system of government bequeathed to us by the Founders, IMHO.”
Actually since 1865.


35 posted on 08/13/2008 7:38:40 PM PDT by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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To: TWohlford
U.S. leads world in substance abuse, WHO finds

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States leads the world in rates of experimenting with marijuana and cocaine despite strict drug laws, World Health Organization researchers said on Tuesday.

Countries with looser drug laws have lower rates of abuse, the researchers report in the Public Library of Science journal PLoS Medicine.

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0125478320080701

_________________________________

36 posted on 08/13/2008 7:39:13 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: sionnsar

“It slipped the leash long go. We no longer live under the system of government bequeathed to us by the Founders, IMHO.”
Actually since 1865.


37 posted on 08/13/2008 7:39:32 PM PDT by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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To: DBrow

OTOH, medical marijuana has won nearly every time it has been put before voters.


38 posted on 08/13/2008 7:41:43 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: DBrow
Do they understand? Look at how people vote, who they vote for.

Okay. Yet they seem to understand that Clarence Thomas is a conservative. Why do they have this "blind spot" that makes them seemingly oblivious to what he's saying?

39 posted on 08/13/2008 7:41:53 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: TWohlford
There’s been a lot of progress since then, including a synthetic pill form of the same ingredients of MJ. There is no reason to buy pot for “medicine”.

Will you personally pay the difference in price between pot and Marinol for those who need to use one or the other? If not, I'd say price is a perfectly legitimate reason for people to prefer pot.

40 posted on 08/13/2008 7:43:19 PM PDT by supercat
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