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'No US forces needed in Georgia'
BBC ^

Posted on 08/14/2008 8:51:50 AM PDT by maquiladora

US defence chief Robert Gates has said he sees no prospect of using US military force in Georgia, following its week-long conflict with Russia.

But he warned that US-Russia relations could be adversely affected for years as a result of Moscow's actions.

(snip)

Despite concerns that Moscow may not be keen quickly to leave Georgian territory, Mr Gates said the Russians did seem to be pulling back.

"They appear to be withdrawing their forces back towards Abkhazia and to the zone of conflict... towards South Ossetia," he said.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: dod; geopolitics; georgia; humanitarianrelief; robertgates; russia; secdef; war
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Those are the key points from his briefing.
1 posted on 08/14/2008 8:51:50 AM PDT by maquiladora
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To: maquiladora

“no prospect of using US military force in Georgia” is so NOT the same thing as “No forces in Georgia”.

Are the BBC deliberately twisting the headline?


2 posted on 08/14/2008 8:56:34 AM PDT by agere_contra ("We are all Georgians" - John McCain)
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To: agere_contra

Don’t really know but we don’t need another war. Georgia is Europes problem. We need to stay out of it.


3 posted on 08/14/2008 8:57:39 AM PDT by RC2
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To: maquiladora
Idle threats mean nothing to the commie Ruskies.
4 posted on 08/14/2008 8:58:13 AM PDT by boomop1
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To: maquiladora

wonder if the Georgian president will order his forces to engage . . . it looks like he may have done something like that this morning in Gori. It appears he is doing everything in his power to get us more directly involved.


5 posted on 08/14/2008 8:58:54 AM PDT by jhpigott
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To: maquiladora

How about just the boxes with the TOW missiles and the MANPADS then, let the Georgians do the rest.


6 posted on 08/14/2008 9:00:59 AM PDT by Para-Ord.45
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To: RC2

It has MUCH more to do with the US than with Europe. It’s always someone else who should deal with it, isn’t it?


7 posted on 08/14/2008 9:02:40 AM PDT by SolidWood (God Bless Georgia and grant them victory over Russia!)
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To: Para-Ord.45

BINGO. We need to support our friends.

Russia is not our friend!!!


8 posted on 08/14/2008 9:03:38 AM PDT by NeilGus
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To: RC2
"Don’t really know but we don’t need another war. Georgia is Europes problem. We need to stay out of it."
9 posted on 08/14/2008 9:04:14 AM PDT by myself6 (.)
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To: Para-Ord.45

Other than their navy and maybe their air defense (Russkies admit 6 aircraft lost) the Georgians hve not done at all well.


10 posted on 08/14/2008 9:05:09 AM PDT by xkaydet65 (Freedom is purchased not with gold, but with steel.)
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To: RC2
Don’t really know but we don’t need another war. Georgia is Europes problem. We need to stay out of it.

If that's the sum total of your geopolitical acumen, I'd love to watch you attempting to calculate a tip at a diner.

11 posted on 08/14/2008 9:05:24 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: jhpigott

“wonder if the Georgian president will order his forces to engage . . . it looks like he may have done something like that this morning in Gori.”

What makes you say that?


12 posted on 08/14/2008 9:07:04 AM PDT by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: maquiladora

It really bothers me, and worries me, that the Russians will get away with this. If they don’t pay a price, the baltic states better expect them back, and going further each time.


13 posted on 08/14/2008 9:07:52 AM PDT by ZX12R
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To: wideawake; RC2

“If that’s the sum total of your geopolitical acumen, I’d love to watch you attempting to calculate a tip at a diner.”

How fast do you think Thomas Jefferson could calculate a tip?

You guys that are aching to roll out the nukes for the sake of Georgia should take a deep breath.

“I have ever deemed it fundamental for the United States never to take active part in the quarrels of Europe. Their political interests are entirely distinct from ours. Their mutual jealousies, their balance of power, their complicated alliances, their forms and principles of government, are all foreign to us. They are nations of eternal war. All their energies are expended in the destruction of the labor, property and lives of their people.” —Thomas Jefferson


14 posted on 08/14/2008 9:10:36 AM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: maquiladora
Those words bely the fact that President Bush has ordered the US military to conduct the humanitarian effort. US aircraft, US soldiers, and US ships will be in Goergia, its waters, and air space.

They will provide humanitarian efforts, but their very presence will also provide a military trip-line in case the Russians decide to re-engage.

Bush has acted directly, with language and now with actions in helping the Georgians...and I believe in concert with the French President and the other President's that their efforts are going to work. McCain was also strong in this. Obama was very weak out of the chute and should be a serious concern for anyone looking at world conditions and our choice for President.

CHOOSING THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES




NOBAMA MOVEMENT SPREADS ACROSS THE NATION

15 posted on 08/14/2008 9:14:06 AM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: RC2

It will become our problem in a hurry if the Russians are allowed to control the pipelines in the region. On the other hand I have to wonder what kind of brain damage makes some folks itchy for a war with Russia.


16 posted on 08/14/2008 9:14:32 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Voting Conservative isn't for the faint of heart.)
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To: xkaydet65

“..the Georgians have not done at all well.”

According to the Russkies


17 posted on 08/14/2008 9:16:14 AM PDT by PurpleMan
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To: maquiladora

Had Georgia kept just 6 nuclear weapons from the old 20,000 warhead Soviet stockpile, many of which were on Georgian soil, this invasion would never have happened.


18 posted on 08/14/2008 9:18:03 AM PDT by MindBender26 (Leftists stop arguing when they see your patriotism, your logic, your CAR-15 and your block of C4.)
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To: MindBender26

“Had Georgia kept just 6 nuclear weapons from the old 20,000 warhead Soviet stockpile, many of which were on Georgian soil, this invasion would never have happened.”

Like they actually would have nuked the Russian troops?

Right.


19 posted on 08/14/2008 9:19:54 AM PDT by PurpleMan
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To: maquiladora

This needs to influence our relations with Russia the way the first World Trade Center bombing ought to have been in reference to our relations with the Muslim world.


20 posted on 08/14/2008 9:20:11 AM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Barack Obama--the first black Jimmy Carter.)
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To: RFEngineer
Interesting, but it leads to a couple of questions:

1. When Jefferson wrote, it took a lot of time to get across the atlantic ocean. There was no weaponry capable of reaching our shores from Europe. Do you think that modern times might cause Jefferson to have a different outlook, considering the vastly different circumstances. He thought of us as miraculously separated and protected from Europe's woes. Hasn't that changed?

2. Had we followed Jefferson's thinking, that would have meant staying out of WW2 and the Cold War. Would those have been correct stances to take?

21 posted on 08/14/2008 9:20:14 AM PDT by Huck (A Teddy Roosevelt wannabe is better than a Che Guevara wannabe.)
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To: Frank_Discussion

reports are that Georgia sent a healthy sized military contingent with Gori city officials for handover of the city from the Russians, stand-off occurred and Russians have temporarily decided they aren’t leaving. Just speculating really, but given the Georgian president’s bellicose tone . . .


22 posted on 08/14/2008 9:23:32 AM PDT by jhpigott
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To: RFEngineer; wideawake; RC2
“I have ever deemed it fundamental for the United States never to take active part in the quarrels of Europe. Their political interests are entirely distinct from ours. Their mutual jealousies, their balance of power, their complicated alliances, their forms and principles of government, are all foreign to us. They are nations of eternal war. All their energies are expended in the destruction of the labor, property and lives of their people.” —Thomas Jefferson

Brilliant quote, but that was before oil and nuclear weapons.

23 posted on 08/14/2008 9:24:58 AM PDT by rrstar96 (Strength and Honor!)
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To: rrstar96

What does oil and nuclear weapons have to do with it? If anything, these new issues strengthens Jefferson’s insight about the futility of getting involved in foreign quarrels.


24 posted on 08/14/2008 9:28:33 AM PDT by Captain Kirk
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To: RC2
Don’t really know but we don’t need another war. Georgia is Europes problem. We need to stay out of it.

We definitely don't need any more fake allies like the Europeans. It's long past time for them to pony up their share of their own defense. OR for them to get used to a thick Soviet boot on their necks. Either way, our decades of protection offered to the Europeans have done nothing but buy them their prosperity at a discount, and breed sniveling contempt for us.

If they are not willing to stand and fight for themselves, I'm quite past the point of caring what happens to Europe. Between the Russians and the Islamification of their lands, they need to buck up and get their act together, because the USAF can't bail them out of everything. If they can't see how the fate of Georgia could be their own, and if they fail to hang together, then let them hang separately.

25 posted on 08/14/2008 9:31:00 AM PDT by Steel Wolf ("There are moderate Muslims, but Islam itself is not moderate" Ibn Warraq)
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To: RFEngineer

Taking foreign policy advice from a man dead for 200 years seems unwise to me. We don’t live in the same world as did Jefferson, and I’m quite sure that the political realities we face today in a global economy (like it or not) would have Jefferson thinking a bit differently.

JMO.


26 posted on 08/14/2008 9:31:13 AM PDT by dmz
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To: jhpigott

So, the Russians invade, then break multiple cease-fires. Georgia then sends military to enforce the Russians’ agreed withdrawal, and a standoff ensues.

Russia breaks the agreement, but it’s the Georgian’s fault?

Do you let bullies steal your lunch money, and think you deserve it?

C’Mon, either we butch up and recognize Russia is bullying, or we’ve become massive wimps. What’s it gonna be?


27 posted on 08/14/2008 9:33:50 AM PDT by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: Captain Kirk
"What does oil and nuclear weapons have to do with it? If anything, these new issues strengthens Jefferson’s insight about the futility of getting involved in foreign quarrels."

Makes me wonder...Given his statement, what did Jefferson have to say about the French support we had received in the Revolutionary War?

28 posted on 08/14/2008 9:34:01 AM PDT by LZ_Bayonet (There's Always Something.............And there's always something worse!)
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To: RFEngineer
This is the same Thomas Jefferson who wound up becoming embroiled militarily in North Africa.

Jefferson said many things - he also did many things.

And his actions speak louder than his words, especially when his actions were born of hard-learned experience subsequent to his utterances.

29 posted on 08/14/2008 9:34:11 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: Captain Kirk

Well, Jefferson did not foresee an international issue such as the free flow of a precious commodity such as oil, and neither could he predict the advent of aircraft and rocketry for military purposes and, much less, for the delivery of nuclear weapons.

Being bordered by two oceans does not keep us safe anymore.


30 posted on 08/14/2008 9:39:21 AM PDT by rrstar96 (Strength and Honor!)
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To: dmz; All

Nothing against our founders, but we live in a much different world today then when this nation was founded. We no longer have the luxury of oceans protecting us.


31 posted on 08/14/2008 9:40:39 AM PDT by KevinDavis (Hey Barak... I'm a citizen of the US not the WORLD!!!!!)
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To: rrstar96; All

and nothing against Jefferson and our founders.


32 posted on 08/14/2008 9:41:19 AM PDT by KevinDavis (Hey Barak... I'm a citizen of the US not the WORLD!!!!!)
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To: agere_contra

To expand on my point: we need NATO forces in Georgia right now.

Putting forces in front of the Russians and so stopping them from devouring the whole of Georgia is NOT the same as immediately blazing away with MOABs. The Russians always, ALWAYS advance until met with steel.

The other - not exclusive option - is to “review the Georgians’ military needs”. Oh what a felicitous diplomatic phrase that is. Give the Georgians more tank- and helicopter-killing missiles.


33 posted on 08/14/2008 9:43:02 AM PDT by agere_contra ("We are all Georgians" - John McCain)
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To: RC2

Like the Brits and the French stayed out of WWII?


34 posted on 08/14/2008 9:43:33 AM PDT by Core_Conservative (Proud to be "The self-righteous, gun-totin, military lovin, abortion-hatin, gay-loathin'...")
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To: KevinDavis
Nothing against our founders, but we live in a much different world today then when this nation was founded.

Yeah, lets just scrap the Constitution while we are at it. It was written by people living in a much different world than today.

35 posted on 08/14/2008 9:44:33 AM PDT by RightWingNilla
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To: Frank_Discussion

hey, i’m with you

all i’m saying is I don’t really think either side wants this to be over


36 posted on 08/14/2008 9:45:56 AM PDT by jhpigott
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To: RightWingNilla; All

No, I was saying that we can longer afford to be an isolationist country like we where....


37 posted on 08/14/2008 9:46:12 AM PDT by KevinDavis (Hey Barak... I'm a citizen of the US not the WORLD!!!!!)
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To: wideawake
This is the same Thomas Jefferson who wound up becoming embroiled militarily in North Africa.

Which is an excellent point, insofar as it illustrates that avoiding or engaging in any given war should rest on the merits of that particular conflict. Not what we did in WW I I, or the Cold War, or the Revolutionary War. Nor should it revolve on what we felt a few years ago, because situations change, and rational people adapt to changing situations.

38 posted on 08/14/2008 9:50:36 AM PDT by Steel Wolf ("There are moderate Muslims, but Islam itself is not moderate" Ibn Warraq)
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To: KevinDavis

I understand what you were saying and I suppose you are correct to a certain extent. But I tend to err on the isolationist side. The founding fathers were experts on human nature and politcal relationships; human nature has not changed in thousands of years.

Georgia is way too unstable to admit into NATO.


39 posted on 08/14/2008 9:50:38 AM PDT by RightWingNilla
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To: RFEngineer
“I have ever deemed it fundamental for the United States never to take active part in the quarrels of Europe. Their political interests are entirely distinct from ours. Their mutual jealousies, their balance of power, their complicated alliances, their forms and principles of government, are all foreign to us. They are nations of eternal war. All their energies are expended in the destruction of the labor, property and lives of their people.” —Thomas Jefferson

At a time when it took months to organize an invasion force and three weeks for it to cross the Atlantic.

Today American cities can disappear in 30-40 minutes of launch. 5-10 minutes if it's from a Boomer parked off the Atlantic coast.

The age of muskets and breech-loaded cannon are long gone and to apply the wisdom of those days blindly is a major mistake.

I'm pretty sure Jefferson would understand that the world changes. The question is, do you?

40 posted on 08/14/2008 9:59:05 AM PDT by Cheburashka (Democratic Underground: Ever wonder where all those who took the brown acid at Woodstock wound up?)
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To: Cheburashka

Jefferson was a pretty smart guy. Question is, are you?


41 posted on 08/14/2008 10:07:35 AM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: RC2

If the US couldn’t protect it’s allies then why would they be allies at all?

Come on man your not paying attention (ò¿ó)


42 posted on 08/14/2008 10:08:52 AM PDT by Dandydoodley (Military Family War Hero or a Muslim Trick Baby? that's a no brainier fool)
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To: RightWingNilla

Right - BTW, wasn’t Stalin from Georgia?


43 posted on 08/14/2008 10:13:28 AM PDT by nomodem
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To: nomodem; All

Your point??


44 posted on 08/14/2008 10:25:10 AM PDT by KevinDavis (Hey Barak... I'm a citizen of the US not the WORLD!!!!!)
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To: nomodem
Yes....according to Wikipedia it was "Gori, Georgia, Russia (now Republic of Georgia)".

Speaking of evil, have you seen this story:

Israel to surrender Jerusalem property to Russia

Putin having a "footprint" in the middle of Jerusalem is just a scary thought.

45 posted on 08/14/2008 10:25:39 AM PDT by ravingnutter
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To: Captain Kirk

I think the REAL Captain Kirk would kick your ass up to your ears for quoting the Prime Directive!


46 posted on 08/14/2008 10:28:16 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (Old, pale and stale - McCain in 2008! but we're only one vote away from losing the 2nd amendment...)
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To: maquiladora

http://www.navoine.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?p=551

Check out the 90 or so pics at this Russian link. Not for the weak stomached: many gory war casualties.

Note especially the prevalent Chechyn units. Most Russian armor is spray-painted with the unit names, including “Chechyn Vostok.” The Russians are sending Chechyn muslims into Georgia, to do the dirty work.


47 posted on 08/14/2008 10:28:24 AM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Mr Rogers

As I think Scottie put it once, “You donna get laid by green women if you obey the Prime Directive.”


48 posted on 08/14/2008 10:29:47 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (Old, pale and stale - McCain in 2008! but we're only one vote away from losing the 2nd amendment...)
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To: Travis McGee; All
Interesting pic here:

Looks to me like the Russians got bloodied somewhat too, with several of their own tanks (with the Chobham plating) knocked out.

49 posted on 08/14/2008 10:59:53 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner ("We must not forget that there is a war on and our troops are in the thick of it!"--Duncan Hunter)
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To: Huck
2. Had we followed Jefferson's thinking, that would have meant staying out of WW2 and the Cold War. Would those have been correct stances to take?

Had we followed Jefferson's thinking we would have stayed out of WW1, and the Treaty of Versailles wouldn't have engendered the conditions for WW2 and the Cold War. That would be the correct stance.

50 posted on 08/14/2008 11:28:08 AM PDT by jammer
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