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To: thackney
Good point, general (sweet crude) refineries do so and are needed at the point of use, close to its consumer.

Heavy crude processing refineries are needed near the sources to do a rough breakdown so that sweet crude and heavy crude are separated. The problem is cheaply separating out the sulphur in pumped crude.

Each type has a different consumer/usage and value, and needs to go to different locations more efficiently. Road and roof tar have a different distribution system than gasoline and vehicle oils.

If we had offshore oil, fed by pipeline, to on-shore heavy crude refinery processing, then to multi-fuel refineries as you named, all distributed by our domestic oil companies, we would have the most competitive system.

That would keep our wealth here, that could be taxed for alternative fuel development.

If we could solve the sulphur problem, our coal, oil-shale, and tar-sand would make us completely energy independent in a few years at best.

39 posted on 08/15/2008 8:42:25 AM PDT by gandalftb ("War educates the senses" (Emerson))
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To: gandalftb
Heavy crude processing refineries are needed near the sources to do a rough breakdown so that sweet crude and heavy crude are separated.

Are you confusing an upgrader plant like what is used in conjunction with oil sands development with a refinery?

There is no reason to separate sulfur from crude away from the market for sulfur. It only makes another product to handle and transport to the same industrial market.

Heavy/light is a completely different topic than sweet/sour. There are plenty of light, sour crudes and there are heavy sweet crudes.

Heavy crudes are not separated to make make light crudes. Initial distillation of any crude produces multiple products.

Heavy versus light only produces the same products in different ratios. Heavier products get more processing to more closely match product demand.

In addition, there are other pre-distillation process that go on like a de-salter. There is little advantage to adding additional upstream processing beside oil/natural gas/water separation.

Each type has a different consumer/usage and value, and needs to go to different locations more efficiently. Road and roof tar have a different distribution system than gasoline and vehicle oils.

Those distribution networks and industrial customers are already in place around our existing refineries. Why would we want to move processing away from them.

That would keep our wealth here, that could be taxed for alternative fuel development.

What? Moving refining capabilities from the West Coast to Alaska doesn't make any domestic change. And since most of our oil is imported, what you suggest would move more jobs overseas instead of keeping them domestic. Most of our imports are heavy crude and we have no problem continuing to build and operate hydrotreaters for sulfur removal.

40 posted on 08/15/2008 8:55:38 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: gandalftb; All

If I may, I would like to recommend this information source for you and any others interested in learning move about the petroleum industry.

Oil Market Basics
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/analysis_publications/oil_market_basics/intro.htm#Welcome%20to:
A primer on oil markets combined with hotlinks to oil price and volume data available on the Internet

In its six chapters’ text, it provides an overview of oil markets and how they function. In its graphs, it pictures the trends and patterns discussed. In its more than 400 links, it provides a road map to EIA data and other information on oil markets available on the Web. By design, Oil Market Basics does not provide the most current data, but links to the data.

Table of Contents
Introduction
- HOW TO USE OIL MARKET BASICS
- CHART: U.S. Oil Flow from Source to End-Use, 2004

Supply
- WHAT OIL IS AND WHERE IT COMES FROM
- DRILLING FOR OIL
- HOW OIL IS PRODUCED
- THE IMPACT OF UPSTREAM TECHNOLOGY
- GLOBAL OIL SUPPLY BY REGION
- U.S. OIL PRODUCTION
- ADDITIONAL SUPPLY DETAIL Schematic of a Petroleum Trap
Upstream Technology
- Reserves and Resources
- Federal Offshore

SUPPLY GRAPHS AND CHARTS
- Schematic of a Petroleum Trap
- World Oil Reserves by Region, January 1, 2005
- Cost of Crude Oil to U.S. Refiners, 1973-2004
- World Oil Production by Region, 1980-2003
- U.S. Oil Production by Region, 2004

GUIDE AND LINKS TO SUPPLY DATA AND SOURCES

Demand
- GLOBAL OIL CONSUMPTION
- U.S. CONSUMPTION BY SECTOR
- U.S. CONSUMPTION BY PRODUCT
- U.S. CONSUMPTION BY REGION
- MEASURING OIL CONSUMPTION
- DEMAND GRAPHS AND CHARTS World Oil Demand by Region, 1980-2003
- World Oil Demand per Capita by Region, 2003
- U.S. Oil Demand by End-Use Sector, 1950-2004
- U.S. Oil Demand by Petroleum Product, 2004
- U.S. Petroleum Product Demand by Month, 1998-2002
- U.S. Oil Demand by Region, 2002

LINKS TO DEMAND DATA AND SOURCES

Trade
- REGIONAL IMPORTERS AND EXPORTERS
- GLOBAL PATTERNS OF OIL TRADE
- IMPORT DEPENDENCY
- U.S. TRADE FLOWS
- TRADE GRAPHS AND CHARTS U.S. Oil Imports by Area of Origin, 1973-2004
- U.S. Imports of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products, 1973-2005
- U.S. Oil Imports by Region, 2004
- Movements of Petroleum Products between U.S. Regions, 2004

LINKS TO TRADE DATA AND SOURCES

Refining
- SIMPLE DISTILLATION
- DOWNSTREAM PROCESSING
- CRUDE OIL QUALITY
- OTHER REFINERY INPUTS
- U.S. REFINING CAPACITY
- WORLD REFINING CAPACITY
- REFINING GRAPHS AND CHARTS Typical Product Yield from Simple Distillation
- Average U.S. Refinery Yield, 2004
- World Refining Capacity by Region, 2003
- World Petroleum Product Output by Region, 2003
- U.S. Refining Capacity by Region, 2004
- U.S. Refining Capacity, Crude Runs, and Utilization Rate, 1973-2004
- Profit Rates by Oil Industry Segment, 1977-2003

LINKS TO REFINING DATA AND SOURCES

Stocks
- WHY STOCKS ARE IMPORTANT
- STOCKS ARE SEASONAL
- STRATEGIC STOCKS
- COSTS AND PROFITS
- STOCKS GRAPH U.S. Oil Inventories by Region, December 31, 2004

LINKS TO STOCKS DATA AND SOURCES

Prices
- OVERVIEW: COSTS PLUS MARKET CONDITIONS
- GASOLINE PRICES: AN EXAMPLE
- LINKS TO PRICE DATA
- ADDITIONAL PRICE DETAIL Types of Oil Transactions
- Taxes
- Gasoline Classes of Trade

GUIDE AND LINKS TO PRICE DATA AND SOURCES

Graphs and Charts
Links to EIA Data and Other Web Resources
Quick link to Current Data
Need Help?
Appendices:

A - MAP OF PETROLEUM ADMINISTRATION FOR DEFENSE DISTRICTS
B - LINKS TO ENVIRONMENTAL SOURCES


41 posted on 08/15/2008 9:10:25 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: gandalftb

We have the worlds largest deposit of the cleanest coal in the world. But Clinton and the Democrats signed the land into federal parklands. The other deposit is owned by the Ryadi, big Clinton donor, and from.....Indonesia


42 posted on 08/15/2008 10:28:29 AM PDT by Leisler
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