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Wind Farms Impacting Weather (Cause global warming and/or desert land?)
Science Daily ^ | 10/1/2005 | Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, Inc., and the American Society of Civil Engineers

Posted on 08/19/2008 7:46:10 AM PDT by Magnatron

Wind farms may have an impact on local weather patterns. As environmental engineers have discovered, wind farm propellers create a lot of turbulence in their wake, mixing air up and down with effects that can be detected for miles...

...a large windmill array could influence the local climate, raising temperatures by about 2 degrees Celsius (about 4 Fahrenheit) for several hours. The rotating blades could also redirect high-speed winds down to the Earth's surface, boosting evaporation of soil moisture...

...At best, wind farms produce electricity at an efficiency rate of 30 percent, compared to a 70 percent efficiency rate from natural gas and coal. Wind energy is also unreliable. Electricity can't be stored: it must be produced on demand, yet wind is inherently unpredictable. Back-up generators are needed to make sure enough electricity is available to meet demand...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2005/1012-wind_farms_impacting_weather.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071215212425.htm

(Excerpt) Read more at sciencedaily.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2008; climatechange; energy; energyfacts; environment; pickensplan; windenergy; windfarms; windpower
These are old articles, but very relevant. I've often wondered about this with the big push for windmills going on. This science has been GROSSLY underreported. Could we be on our way to widespread crop failure and famine in this country as a result of our manipulating the weather and short-sighted political fear mongering?
1 posted on 08/19/2008 7:46:11 AM PDT by Magnatron
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To: Uncledave

for the renewable energy ping list


2 posted on 08/19/2008 8:04:47 AM PDT by Kevmo (A person's a person, no matter how small. ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Magnatron

I asked this question a long time ago. I guess someone finally took it seiously.


3 posted on 08/19/2008 8:06:27 AM PDT by TonyM (E)
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To: Magnatron

Pickens plan for that?


4 posted on 08/19/2008 8:06:43 AM PDT by enduserindy (Just say NO to the curtain!)
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To: Magnatron

This reminds me that the Discovery Channel is going to air a special programme on “crazy ideas to cool the planet” (the ideas are presented as being viable and desireable). One of the ideas mentioned in the adverts involves placing a bunch of refracting lenses in orbit (Great, more clutter to track). I can only imagne the unintended consequences of some of the ideas that they shall present (one being covering glaciers with metal foil).


5 posted on 08/19/2008 8:08:10 AM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: Magnatron

This kind of thinking that the actions of man can affect climate change, is right in line with Father Al’s teachings.


6 posted on 08/19/2008 8:16:16 AM PDT by Dixie Yooper (Ephesians 6:11)
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To: Magnatron
Electricity can't be stored

All I know about electricity is to have a profound respect for it. Maybe figuring out a way to store it would be useful. Probably not possible, but so was manned flight and going to the Moon once upon a time.

7 posted on 08/19/2008 8:24:16 AM PDT by auboy (Men who cannot deceive others are very often successful at deceiving themselves. Samuel Johnson)
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To: Magnatron

Two sources, wind and solar, I have been against since it diverts attention form the real energy source - Nuclear, coal, and natural gas plants that produce steady supply regardless of environmental changes. It amazes me the dreamers in this Country. Second, will never replace natural gas, gasoline, supplemental battery driven cars, or jet fuel. Ethanol as an additive is possible as long as we do not get carried away. By itself, not a very efficient fuel.


8 posted on 08/19/2008 8:26:39 AM PDT by Logical me (Oh, well!!!)
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To: Magnatron

Hmmm. Let me see if I can codify a scientific generalization about all of this. Yes, I believe so... “For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.”

Now, a corollary: “When you are only effecting change that involves .0001% of the total volume of wind, the equal and opposite matters little, and is as likely to be beneficial as it is to be deleterious.” OK. Pay me.


9 posted on 08/19/2008 8:35:14 AM PDT by Migraine (Diversity is great (until it happens to YOU)...)
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To: Magnatron

Because we aren’t doing ENOUGH already to change the climate... < /s >


10 posted on 08/19/2008 8:43:35 AM PDT by weegee (The higher taxes that Obama demands of Americans are 'Above my Pay Grade'.)
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To: Magnatron

All summer I’ve noticed a shortage of wind, is it time to put a stop to these wind thieves?

We can’t afford to lose another finite resource.


11 posted on 08/19/2008 8:45:34 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: Army Air Corps

Hell, just correct the data the same way Hansen et al does.


12 posted on 08/19/2008 8:46:50 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: Magnatron

“Electricity can’t be stored: it must be produced on demand”

It can be stored but it may not be feasible to do it for our power plants.

If you get an electric car, you will have a rechargable battery. Also capicitors hold a charge (within a circuit).


13 posted on 08/19/2008 8:47:22 AM PDT by weegee (The higher taxes that Obama demands of Americans are 'Above my Pay Grade'.)
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To: weegee

It’s strange to reason that because what we have done has created a change in the planet that seems about to spin out of control that we should undertake even more changes with even less understanding of the consequences of the mix.


14 posted on 08/19/2008 8:50:27 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: TonyM
I asked this question a long time ago. I guess someone finally took it seiously.

Me too. If you put up enough windmills to generate a significant amount of electricity, you WILL change the climate, and change it faster than burning oil.

Same goes for battery powered cars being nonpolluting. WRONG! You just concentrate the pollution at the power plants instead of having it distributed around.

15 posted on 08/19/2008 8:58:59 AM PDT by libertylover (You can't "Tylenol" your way out of arthritis either but it sure as hell helps to relieve the pain.)
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To: Magnatron

Thank you for posting this!


16 posted on 08/19/2008 9:06:53 AM PDT by sionnsar (Impeach Obama |Iran Azadi| 5yst3m 0wn3d - it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY) | UN: Useless Nations)
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To: Magnatron
Electricity can't be stored: it must be produced on demand, yet wind is inherently unpredictable.

The potential energy of a period windier than needed for the system can easily be stored by using the excess to pump water from a lower to a higher level. When the wind is insufficient, release the water back to a lower level through a set of turbines.

It then becomes a matter of scale; one house or ranch or community facility, or resorviors with huge "wind farms".

I still lean towards nukes, though.

17 posted on 08/19/2008 9:06:58 AM PDT by JimRed ("Hey, hey, Teddy K., how many girls did you drown today?" TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: RedStateRocker; Dementon; eraser2005; Calpernia; DTogo; Maelstrom; Yehuda; babble-on; ...
Renewable Energy Ping

Please Freep Mail me if you'd like on/off

18 posted on 08/19/2008 9:15:58 AM PDT by Uncledave (Zombie Reagan '08)
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To: Magnatron
This science has been GROSSLY underreported...

I Can't imagine why. /s

19 posted on 08/19/2008 9:35:42 AM PDT by Realism (Some believe that the facts-of-life are open to debate.....)
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To: TonyM
FUD! And FUD that was conviently edited to look bad in the post. "But the researchers found that in the predawn hours, when the atmosphere is less turbulent, a large windmill array could influence the local climate, raising temperatures by about 2 degrees Celsius (about 4 Fahrenheit) for several hours." Notice there is no definition of 'local' and no mention if it being 2 degrees warmer from 0400-0600 followed by normal temps from 0600->0400 if at the edge of 'local' or right where the turbine sits.. If local is say a square mile around the turbine it has a smaller effect on local temperature than a supermarket and its parking lot! "The rotating blades could also redirect high-speed winds down to the Earth's surface, boosting evaporation of soil moisture." This could be troublesome, can they demonstrate this or is this akin to so much of the eco junk science pushed out there today.. "Electricity can't be stored: it must be produced on demand" What a load of crap it can be stored just was hydro energy is stored via a transfer to kinetic.
20 posted on 08/19/2008 9:44:26 AM PDT by N3WBI3 (Ah, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package. How efficient of you. -- Londo Mollari)
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To: N3WBI3
yuck sorry about the poor formating
FUD! And FUD that was conveniently edited to look bad in the post.

"But the researchers found that in the predawn hours, when the atmosphere is less turbulent, a large windmill array could influence the local climate, raising temperatures by about 2 degrees Celsius (about 4 Fahrenheit) for several hours."

Notice there is no definition of 'local' and no mention if it being 2 degrees warmer from 0400-0600 followed by normal temps from 0600->0400 if at the edge of 'local' or right where the turbine sits..

If local is say a square mile around the turbine it has a smaller effect on local temperature than a supermarket and its parking lot!

"The rotating blades could also redirect high-speed winds down to the Earth's surface, boosting evaporation of soil moisture."

This could be troublesome, can they demonstrate this or is this akin to so much of the eco junk science pushed out there today..

"Electricity can't be stored: it must be produced on demand"

What a load of crap it can be stored just was hydro energy is stored via a transfer to kinetic.
21 posted on 08/19/2008 9:46:35 AM PDT by N3WBI3 (Ah, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package. How efficient of you. -- Londo Mollari)
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To: Magnatron
Doofus Alert!!!

A anti windmill advocate warned that wind mills could capture air flow but would slow down the Earth's rotation and affect the day nite cycle which would do serious damage to hoot owls. Hows that for a Hooter Alert!


22 posted on 08/19/2008 10:08:42 AM PDT by Young Werther (Julius Caesar (Quae Cum Ita Sunt. Since these things are so.))
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To: Realism
I Can't imagine why.

Probably because it'd grossly dumb.

23 posted on 08/19/2008 10:21:29 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (My son just joined the Navy!!!!!!!!!)
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To: N3WBI3

Yes I did pull out relevant quotes, but I also provided links to both articles for someone to read further.

My point is, if scientists are finding that massive wind farms can alter local climate, what’s to say what will happen further down the line beyond that farm? Have we studied this enough? It’s common scientific sense that you can’t capture energy from a source without removing energy in the process. Even fuel as it’s burned holds less energy capacity following that release. As a dam slows down water, so would wind farms (and I’m speaking on the massive Boone-Pickens scenario) remove wind energy from the atmosphere. It seems almost common sense that the land beyond that farm could be at risk - and how far down stream would that effect take place?

Go invest in Boone-Pickens’ plan if you don’t think this is a big enough issue to look into. Personally, I’d rather stick one oil well in the ground than construct acres and acres of ugly, flapping, inefficient wind derricks and later suffer the ill-effects of our idiocy.


24 posted on 08/19/2008 10:27:51 AM PDT by Magnatron
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To: Magnatron

Wind is inefficient, wind is unreliable, wind is..., wind is ...

They always forget: WIND IS FREE


25 posted on 08/19/2008 10:48:25 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: Magnatron
Personally, I’d rather stick one oil well in the ground than construct acres and acres of ugly, flapping, inefficient wind derricks and later suffer the ill-effects of our idiocy.

If you need more carbon monoxide in your diet, may be you should take up smoking.

26 posted on 08/19/2008 11:18:01 AM PDT by Realism (Some believe that the facts-of-life are open to debate.....)
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To: Dixie Yooper

It’s very possible to change local climate. Cities are warmer than rural areas, tall buildings change wind patterns.

It’s just very unlikely that we can affect global temps.


27 posted on 08/19/2008 11:29:09 AM PDT by MediaMole
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To: Magnatron; WL-law; Genesis defender; proud_yank; FrPR; enough_idiocy; rdl6989; IrishCatholic; ...
 




Beam me to Planet Gore !

28 posted on 08/19/2008 3:20:58 PM PDT by steelyourfaith
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To: TonyM
I asked this question a long time ago. I guess someone finally took it seiously.

I've been asking the question for at least ten years.
When energy is involved, and it's being added to or deleted from the natural state of things over a large enough area, something has to be affected.

29 posted on 08/19/2008 4:40:48 PM PDT by Publius6961 (You're Government, it's not your money, and you never have to show a profit.)
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