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Sarah Palin's Trig-ger: Is Post-Abortion Grief Driving Criticism of Pro-Life Gov?
LifeNews ^ | 9-8-2008 | Kevin Burke

Posted on 09/08/2008 11:29:58 AM PDT by Brookhaven

The very personal and often uncharitable criticism of Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin and her family evident in recent media coverage, and the lack of support from many feminist and child advocacy groups, may have a relationship to the collective grief, pain and guilt from personal involvement in the abortion of an unborn child.

When an issue strikes at a deeply repressed sensitive wound in a person, often the initial reaction is anger.

Every year in the United States, approximately 133,000 pregnant mothers will undergo routine pre-natal tests and receive what is called “poor pre-natal diagnosis,” or PPD. This means that their infant is afflicted with a chromosomal abnormality or a serious defect in a vital organ.

With the increase in genetic testing and fertility treatments there are growing numbers of couples facing these difficult situations. More than 90 percent of these pregnancies end in abortion. Studies indicate that more than 80 percent of prenatal Down syndrome diagnoses end in abortion.

Parents are often influenced by doctors, therapists, friends and family to see these children not as a gift, but rather a burden to be feared and eliminated. After abortion, the fallout from this loss places a tremendous strain on a couple as they struggle to come to terms with the shock and pain of their experience.

Phil Pedlikin, president of the Down Syndrome Association of Northern Virginia, said the coverage of Sarah Palin as the mother of a child with Down syndrome has been very mixed.

"We have found it frustrating that, even though Governor Palin has never suggested it, quite the opposite really, the emphasis of many reports has been on the 'burden' that she faces because her child has Down syndrome. Also, she is sometimes portrayed as a hero because of this additional 'burden.' We are not heroes because we have children with Down syndrome. Our children are the heroes," Mr. Pedlikin said. (Washington Times, September 4, 2008)

Governor Palin has been clear that despite the challenges Trig’s condition will present, she and her husband Todd joyfully celebrate the gift of this precious life to their family.

But this very heartfelt, natural expression of love may be striking at a deeply repressed and painful wound in our culture.

Seeing the Palin family, in a very visible public forum, with an uncompromising and public pro life philosophy arouses deeply repressed feelings in post abortive parents, as well as media members, counselors, health care professionals, politicians and others who promote abortion rights, especially the abortion of children with challenges such as Down syndrome.

These powerful repressed feelings of grief, guilt and shame can be deflected from the source of the wound (i.e., abortion) and projected onto an often uncharitable focus upon the trigger of these painful emotions…the Palin family.

We have also learned that Sarah's 17-year-old daughter Bristol is pregnant and will give birth to her son or daughter. This information has been exploited to attack chastity programs and the alleged glamorization of motherhood at the expense of contraception and abortion rights. But this completely misses a more crucial issue that once again our society struggles to face.

If Bristol Palin had quietly aborted, Sarah Palin would have been spared the politically untimely focus on this very personal family issue. The problem would have quietly gone away.

But Bristol, like countless post abortive women, would have paid a high price to protect her mother from the political heat that her pregnancy brings to the campaign. We know from our work with thousands of women who feel pressured to abort for various reasons that she would surely suffer many of the common post abortion symptoms; depression, promiscuity, drug and alcohol abuse, sleep disorders and relational problems. But she would have suffered in silence; no one would know her secret. No one would acknowledge that she has reason to grieve or have symptoms after abortion.

Sarah Palin would have lost not only her precious grandchild...she likely would have lost her daughter Bristol to the silent ravages of post abortion suffering.

The Palin family’s decision to once again affirm the value of the unborn child, and support a decision to give life confronts the collective grief, guilt and shame of all who have participated in any way in the death of an unborn child.

What we can hope and pray is that Sarah Palin's story does not continue to feed a disgraceful media feeding frenzy fueled by our post-abortive culture and instead becomes a beacon of hope and healing.

The experience of the Palin family offers encouragement to other families facing challenging circumstances to value the gift of a child and to see the blessing and potential they represent, rather than a burden to avoid at all costs.

It is important to make the distinction that to affirm the value of the unborn in no way condemns those who have experienced the pain of abortion. Rather, this presents an opportunity to reach out to all who have been wounded by their participation in abortion with love and compassion.

We must invite our post-abortive culture to leave the dead end road of anger and personal attacks on families like the Palins. Instead, we need to travel the road of reconciliation, healing and peace as we work together to build a culture of life for all Americans from conception to natural death.

If you or someone you love is hurting after abortion, visit Rachel’s Vineyard - Healing The Pain of Abortion, One weekend at a Time www.rachelsvineyard.org.


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: mccainpalin; moralabsolutes; palin; postabortivewomen; prolife; rachelsvineyard
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1 posted on 09/08/2008 11:29:59 AM PDT by Brookhaven
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To: Brookhaven; PennsylvaniaMom

Great minds ...


2 posted on 09/08/2008 11:35:04 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("McCain and Palin: The Normal People Revolution" ~ rrrod)
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To: Brookhaven

I can see the writer’s point, and there may be behind some of the media hype, but it’s not driving it.


3 posted on 09/08/2008 11:35:26 AM PDT by bcsco (Sarah America! Ignore the lipstik at your peril!)
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To: Brookhaven

> Rather, this presents an opportunity to reach out to all who have been wounded by their participation in abortion with love and compassion.

A bit late for that. The only people “wounded” by their participation in abortion are permanently unavailable to receive love and compassion.

Abortionists: always a day late and a dollar short when it comes to love and compassion. ‘Strewth!


4 posted on 09/08/2008 11:36:53 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: Brookhaven
It is important to make the distinction that to affirm the value of the unborn in no way condemns those who have experienced the pain of abortion.

Absolutely true.

However, I'm convinced that a lot of strident left-wingers are acting out of their own self-hatred. Many of these people have abortions in their past and they feel guilty about it. As a self-defense mechanism, they become very hard-over on the importance of abortion. "It's legal. It's right. There is no shame in what I did." Now, if the country were to decide that 40 million abortions was a holocaust, these people would have to come to grips with their past.

I believe that Sarah Palin (just by living her life) is a strong repudiation of the choices these people have made. They hate her for it. It's nothing she says. It's just the fact that she embraces life, and they know that they have embraced death.

Reaching out to these people in a spirit of reconciliation is the right thing to do -- but I bet that will often fan the flames of their hatred (which is self-hatred, re-directed against conservatives as a defense mechanism).

5 posted on 09/08/2008 11:39:34 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Et si omnes ego non)
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To: Brookhaven
Certainly this drives many of the pro-abortion women. It's part of the equation.

When I saw the image of Palin holding her Down's Syndrome son in her arms I immediately said to my wife, "Wow, so many women who aborted Down's Syndrome babies must be thinking about their abortions now."

6 posted on 09/08/2008 11:47:00 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: ClearCase_guy

The abortion causualty count is always 1 dead and 1 wounded. The real villian is the ‘provider’.


7 posted on 09/08/2008 11:48:44 AM PDT by tbpiper (Obama/Biden: Instead of Ebony and Ivory, we have Arrogance and Insolence.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
The only people “wounded” by their participation in abortion are permanently unavailable to receive love and compassion.

You are flat out wrong about that. I can tell you have never truly known someone that has had an abortion.

When NOW talks about choice, the fail to mention it isn't always the woman's choice. Boyfriends, parents, even school/government counselors can (and do) apply a tremendous amount of pressure on women.

Imagine you were 19 and pregnant. Your boyfriend (who you thought actually loved you) is telling you you had better have an abortion or he'll leave you. Your parents are pushing for you to have an abortion. The counserlors at your school tell you the best thing to do is have an abortion and "it will all go away like it never happened."

Is it reasonable to expect a 19 year old girl to stand alone against pressure from every side?

I'm as pro-life as anyone (and probably more so than most that say they are pro-life) and I'll tell you right out, next time learn a thing or two before you stick your foot in your mouth.

8 posted on 09/08/2008 11:48:45 AM PDT by Brookhaven
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To: ClearCase_guy

Those who have procurred abortion, or encouraged others to do so, or, usually, both,

have a huge psychological need for there to be no indication in society or law that what they did was wrong. Any indication that it might be wrong (such as the word “rare” in the DNC platform) is pointing out that they MURDERED an innocent baby.

This is why they become “activists” to make sure to spread the word and vehemently claim that there is nothing wrong with abortion.

It’s sad when, in their “activism”, they encourage others to murder their own babies, and inflict the lifelong torment on others as well.


9 posted on 09/08/2008 11:51:45 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: MrB

And take our tax money to do it.


10 posted on 09/08/2008 11:54:46 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: Brookhaven
I agree with you about the circumstances of some women and abortion. I knew a couple girls in college from wealthy families that were told 'what to do about the situation' and their 'choice' was taken away, driven to a Doctor and that was it! One other girl had no system of support, the guy abandoned her and knew if she went to her family, they would disown her.

What I do not get about the Dims going nuts about Palin and Trig is the fact that if the Dims are so into 'choice' well....it was Palin's 'choice' to have Trig which supposedly is the point of 'choice'. End of discussion on the matter from the Lefties as far as I am concerened :)

11 posted on 09/08/2008 11:56:37 AM PDT by BossLady ("FACT ARE STUBBORN THINGS!...." ~ John Adams)
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To: Brookhaven

Sarahs’ experience with Trig may inspire a lot of women to not have an abortion. Who knows. She may have saved hundreds maybe thousands of lives.


12 posted on 09/08/2008 11:57:04 AM PDT by beckysueb (Drill here! Drill now!)
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To: onedoug

Yeah, that’s a biggie to me.

That one triggers the idea that we, as Christians, are not to obey government edicts that force us to do what God forbids.


13 posted on 09/08/2008 11:57:40 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: ClearCase_guy

IF you look at some of the women who lead this charge, it makes you wonder are they really doing this to rationalize an abortion they had in the past?


14 posted on 09/08/2008 12:12:37 PM PDT by job
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To: Brookhaven
I strongly believe this. Actually, it was the first thing in my mind when I saw Palin with her beautiful baby.

The vast majority of women who aborted Down’s babies had to feel a pang when Sarah talked about her “perfectly beautiful baby boy”. There is no way any woman with a heart didn't hear that and look at that picture, and deep inside, didn't feel deep emotion.

The thing is, people of conscience feel grief and regret. But superlibs feel anger and avoidance. I know, I've seen it. I've seen girlfriends who have had abortions unable to talk to me after I had my baby. They have to justify, and no matter what, they end up feeling, at the least, weak.

In some people that translates to hate and rejection. They project, thinking such a person is responsible for their twisted feelings and is purposely making them unhappy and uncomfortable.

Because, no matter how they cover it up, they destroyed their child to be because they couldn't handle it somehow. They can't get away from that.

15 posted on 09/08/2008 12:15:00 PM PDT by I still care (A thousand screaming Germans, some fake columns and swooning girly-men does not a campaign make.)
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To: Brookhaven

> You are flat out wrong about that.

Says you.

> I can tell you have never truly known someone that has had an abortion.

Fat lot you know. I have known several abortioners, and without exception they are shallow, selfish people unworthy of the spirited defense that you seem to insist is their due.

And what’s worse, they are unrepentant and they see themselves as “victims”.

I see neither reason nor excuse for turning sentient people into “victims” when they choose to kill other helpless human beings. They are not “victims” but rather “killers”.

The true victim was disposed of with the medical waste on the last day of his/her short life.

Abortioners deserve opprobrium, not support for their evil deeds.

If they are no longer considered “incompetents at law” (which handily takes in most people of child-bearing age) they are old enough to understand Thou Shalt Not Kill.

> Is it reasonable to expect a 19 year old girl to stand alone against pressure from every side?

Yes. Not only is it reasonable, it is moral, ethical and responsible. Sorry, ma’am — I guess one of the areas in which we differ is that I insist on treating adults like adults. At 19 she is no longer a girl, but rather a woman.

Is it reasonable to expect a 19 year old man to stand alone against peer pressure from his gang mates not to do a drive-by shooting?

You see, to me there is no difference. Killing is killing. And killing is a Sin. And abortion is usually killing in order to avoid a consequence of another Sin: that of fornication, or sex out of wedlock.

> I’m as pro-life as anyone

Evidently not. Perhaps you are not as pro-life as you should be?

> (and probably more so than most that say they are pro-life)

Demonstrably not moreso than I.

> and I’ll tell you right out, next time learn a thing or two before you stick your foot in your mouth.

I will keep your guidance in mind for the next time I do stick my foot in my mouth — which isn’t this time.

I think it is lamentable that perfectly good Conservatives like yourself can put away their moral compasses whenever it suits them: in this case over the emotive issue of Abortion.

Sorry, ma’am: one of the features of Free Speech is that we all have the right to differ. And one of the responsibilities of exercising that right is to have the courage of one’s convictions. In this case I believe you are tragically mistaken, and I stand by my earlier post.

You and I clearly disagree. And it is probable that we may never agree on this matter.

There it is. Just like that.


16 posted on 09/08/2008 12:16:09 PM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: Brookhaven

I have to add, IMHO, when you see women anchors and commentators going absolutely berserk over Sarah Palin, those are the ones that had abortions they knew they didn’t really have to have.


17 posted on 09/08/2008 12:17:12 PM PDT by I still care (A thousand screaming Germans, some fake columns and swooning girly-men does not a campaign make.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter

Well aren’t you the holier-than-thou self-righteous snob.


18 posted on 09/08/2008 12:22:31 PM PDT by visualops (portraits.artlife.us or visit my freeper page)
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To: I still care

Everyone has a conscience - some just sear theirs shut.

Everyone also knows right and wrong, and when they do wrong, they can recognize it, have their conscience convict them of it, and seek to right the wrong and repent from doing it again.

However, how do you “right the wrong” of killing the unborn?
If you don’t understand that there is a loving God who will forgive you, then you’re stuck,

and the only thing you can do is to vehemently declare that what you did is NOT wrong, and work to warp society such that you are not faced with the wrongness of your “choice”.


19 posted on 09/08/2008 12:23:13 PM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: visualops

> Well aren’t you the holier-than-thou self-righteous snob.

If that’s what “Pro-Life” means to you, then I guess I’m guilty as charged.


20 posted on 09/08/2008 12:25:30 PM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
...I'm convinced that a lot of strident left-wingers are acting out of their own self-hatred. Many of these people have abortions in their past and they feel guilty about it. As a self-defense mechanism, they become very hard-over on the importance of abortion. "It's legal. It's right. There is no shame in what I did."...

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I agree completely. Seems that most of the pro-abortion women I've known over the years had lived lifestyles that appear highly likely to result in at least one out-of-wedlock pregnancy. I suspect that many have actually had one or more abortions, and now their pro-abortion advocacy is a way of coping with their nagging guilt.

21 posted on 09/08/2008 12:26:47 PM PDT by stillonaroll (McCain/Palin 2008!)
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To: Brookhaven

I would venture to say that some, if not most of the ardent supporters of “choice” are women who are still wrestling with the repressed guilt of having made that “choice”.

[”The lady dost protest too much, methinks.”]

Unaddressed and unconfessed guilt will make you crazy.

The internet is full of support groups for women who aborted and are now emotionally crippled for life.

I feel great pity for them for abortion is something they can never “make right again” or “take back”.

Abortion clinics should be required to present every potential “customer” with a list of the possible/likely mental/emotional “side effects” killing their baby might have.


22 posted on 09/08/2008 12:26:59 PM PDT by Salamander (Obama hates uppity women.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter

Grizzled Bear; Mr Silverback; Mrs Don-o; Petronski; markomalley;taxchick

Ping #4 and resultant discussion. Curious as to your views.


23 posted on 09/08/2008 12:34:36 PM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter; Grizzled Bear; Mr. Silverback; Mrs. Don-o; Petronski; markomalley; Tax-chick

Let’s try that again...

Ping #4 and resultant discussion. Curious as to your views.


24 posted on 09/08/2008 12:36:50 PM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: Salamander
Unaddressed and unconfessed guilt will make you crazy.

It could get worse. You could be so into "justification" mode that you encourage a close acquaintance to "choose" the same route, because "there's nothing wrong with it."

Now, you have TWO murders on your conscience.

Then, the acquaintance becomes an activist, due to HER guilt, and encourages hundreds or thousands of others, and you know that as well...

25 posted on 09/08/2008 12:41:07 PM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: MrB

I can’t personally imagine doing that because I would *know* there’d be a chance of a domino effect but that’s probably exactly how we got the “pro choice” movement to begin with....:(


26 posted on 09/08/2008 12:44:30 PM PDT by Salamander (Obama hates uppity women.)
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To: MrB

I guess I should have mentioned that the support groups are mainly hosted by Christian organizations.

I reckon that God forgives us a lot easier than we forgive ourselves, sometimes.
Those groups are full of broken women who will never forgive themselves...let alone justify it.


27 posted on 09/08/2008 12:48:29 PM PDT by Salamander (Obama hates uppity women.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
It is important to make the distinction that to affirm the value of the unborn in no way condemns those who have experienced the pain of abortion.

******************

I know you didn't ping me, but I've been following this discussion, and wanted to weigh in here.

The above bothers me. It implies a lack of responsibility on the part of the woman who has chosen to abort her child. That simply is not the case, and I don't think that telling women that they are not responsible for what they have done is the answer, nor is it morally acceptable. We can forgive people for their sins, but to deny that they have sinned is to deny reality.

When a Catholic goes to confession, the priest doesn't tell him that he has not sinned, but that his sins are forgiven.

28 posted on 09/08/2008 12:49:19 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Salamander

I’ve read some stuff from folks that work as post-abortive counselors.

They say that most of the women that turn to Christ and know they are forgiven are still haunted with the personal guilt.


29 posted on 09/08/2008 12:51:38 PM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: Brookhaven

The baby at the heart of the born alive legislation in Illinois had Downs Syndrome. That child of god was aborted but survived. The hospital did not offer medical help.

Obama felt that was the right thing to do because the mother did not want the child.

Pro life or pro choice, Obama clearly has no soul.


30 posted on 09/08/2008 12:52:13 PM PDT by Carley (she's all out of caribou.............)
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To: DieHard the Hunter

You seem not be allowing for a woman’s conscience to be enlightened by God’s grace, for her to repent, confess, be forgiven, and do penance. This can happen in a post-abortive’s woman’s heart at any time ... or not at all, if she is not open to receiving grace.

Although I think you’re right that too much is made about women’s not being responsible for a decision to abort, nonetheless it doesn’t occur to many young women, brought up in a “pro-choice,” and even more, an anti-birth society, that there is anything wrong with abortion ... until it’s too late, for the baby.


31 posted on 09/08/2008 12:54:37 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("McCain and Palin: The Normal People Revolution" ~ rrrod)
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To: trisham

> I know you didn’t ping me, but I’ve been following this discussion, and wanted to weigh in here.

Sorry about that — an oversight on my part.

I think you’ve articulated the point rather well. I can’t see a good moral reason why Abortion should somehow be an exception to the “Thou Shalt Not Kill” commandment. And I do not understand why God would absolve absolutely — indeed treat as a victim — any woman who allowed the Child she has been blessed with to be killed, rather than born.

(The shared guilt of her accomplices in this crime — particularly the medical ones and those who should be supporting her to do the right thing — being acknowledged)

As you’ve pointed out, “being Forgiven” and “Not Sinning in the first place” are not the same things. The former merely re-establishes us on an acceptable footing with God when we have Repented of Sin. The latter obviates the need for Forgiveness in the first place, and is where God would prefer us to focus on expending most of our effort.


32 posted on 09/08/2008 1:00:31 PM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: I still care

“they destroyed their child to be because they couldn’t handle it somehow”

I think that instead of being a last resort for a medical emergency (which I personally don’t agree with either), abortion has been dwindled down to nothing more than a form of birth control for a lot of women.

I knew a coworker once who had already had 6 abortions and was on her way to her 7th and wasn’t embarrassed or bothered by talking about it either. I asked her once why she didn’t take the pill. She said “I tried the pill but it made me gain weight”. No regrets, no guilt, no nothing. Just looking for the next party to go to and the next cowboy to jump in bed with.

Tragic but so very much the story with so many young women nowadays. But, in this sexualized society where “anything goes”, it’s not surprising. They can’t see the beauty in the life they are carrying, only the lifestyle burden. No faith, no hope, only self indulgence.


33 posted on 09/08/2008 1:01:26 PM PDT by Grumpybutt
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To: DieHard the Hunter
I know we'll have to disagree on this one, but my attitude on these types of matters is strongly influenced by Romans. The last part of the chapter 1 describes what happens when a person falls away from God, and there sins get progressivly worse and worse. Look at verse 29:

being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,unmerciful;

All of these are presented as some of the worst sins you can commit, and equally evil in the eys of God. Notice anything you've done on that list? I do. Think you've never commited a sin as bad as murder? Look right in the middle of that list. Murder, listed along with other sins such as pride, boasting, coveting, and spreading rumors about people. All, in the eyes of God, just as bad as murder.

Anytime I'm tempted rain holy hell down on somebody for something they've done, this section of Romans comes to mind. Particulary the last sins listed as being in the same league as murder: "unloving, unforgiving,unmerciful".

34 posted on 09/08/2008 1:05:25 PM PDT by Brookhaven
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To: Tax-chick

> This can happen in a post-abortive’s woman’s heart at any time ... or not at all, if she is not open to receiving grace.

What you say is absolutely true — and if I gave the impression that Abortion was an unforgivable sin, my apologies.

Abortion is only unforgivable if it goes unacknowledged as being Wrong, or even worse yet, claimed as being Right.

Either way, Sinners aren’t “Victims” — because God does not victimize us. They are either Sinners, or they are Forgiven.


35 posted on 09/08/2008 1:06:03 PM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
“being Forgiven” and “Not Sinning in the first place” are not the same things. The former merely re-establishes us on an acceptable footing with God when we have Repented of Sin. The latter obviates the need for Forgiveness in the first place, and is where God would prefer us to focus on expending most of our effort.

****************

Exactly. Without repentance, where is there any assurance that the choice won't be made again? If there's no acknowledgment that something is morally wrong, why not do it again?

36 posted on 09/08/2008 1:13:41 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter; trisham
Either way, Sinners aren’t “Victims” — because God does not victimize us. They are either Sinners, or they are Forgiven.

Quite so. However, not all sins are committed with full knowledge and full consent of the will. These are required for a mortal sin, along with grave matter, which there's no question abortion is.

Modern young women often have never considered the fact that abortion is a grave sin. It's legal, after all, and practically all the celebrities are "pro-choice." Nor is there full consent of the will under pressure from family, for example, or in a panic because "My parents will kill me!" Of these two issues, I suppose the first is more common, because our societies and most institutions simply don't recognize abortion as a sin.

However, because it is a sin, it psychologically traumatizes the sinner, even if she's not aware of it. Just as you go splat if you jump off a building, even if you don't recognize the law of gravity, you psychologically and spiritually go splat if you kill your baby, even if you didn't know it was wrong, or didn't think you had a better choice.

To conclude (because I have to start cutting up vegetables for supper and some kid wants to check his email), I agree with you and trisham that the process of reconciliation for post-abortive women cannot in any way "fudge" the gravity of the sin or their responsibility for it. One has not repented of sin if one has not taken responsibility for sinning.

37 posted on 09/08/2008 1:19:10 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("McCain and Palin: The Normal People Revolution" ~ rrrod)
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To: Brookhaven

> I know we’ll have to disagree on this one, but my attitude on these types of matters is strongly influenced by Romans.

Certainly we can agree on your point on Romans. Speaking personally I don’t believe God runs a sliding scale on Sin: all sin is sin and it is all repugnant to Him.

On the matter of Abortion I think TaxChick’s point is well-made: like all sins Abortion can be repented of and forgiven. But in order to do that it needs to be acknowledged for what it is: a Sin. And people who sin are not Victims, they are Sinners in need of forgiveness.

And there is a process whereby God forgives Sin. But first we have to ask for forgiveness.

I felt (and still feel) that the article unhelpfully paints a false picture: someone who aborts a baby has done “nothing wrong” and is a “helpless victim” who needs no forgiveness because they are sinless.

The only way that could happen is if a pregnant woman were to be kidnapped, taken to an abortion clinic, and her baby aborted against her will. Were such an outrage to happen all who were involved, except that mother, would be guilty of Sin as well as guilty of several State and Federal crimes including conspiracy, kidnapping, and aggravated assault.

I’m unaware of that happening often. If it does, it seldom makes the newspapers.

Anyrate, we may well disagree on the finer points of this subject. But we certainly do agree on that passage in Romans.

Kind regards
*DieHard*


38 posted on 09/08/2008 1:19:49 PM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: trisham
I certainly never wanted to imply that the we should pat women who have had an abortion on the head, tell them everything is OK, and send them on their way.

I firmly believe abortion is a sin. However, it is one sin amoung many that people commit. Like any other sin, it should be dealt with firmly, but with love.

The topic of this article was women who had an abortion, understand they have done something wrong, and their reaction to that understanding. Some choose to deny it and publicly insist they haven't don't anything wrong. Some deeply regret their action, but don't know what to do next.

The solution for both (just as it is for any other sinner) is to guide them to the doorway of forgiveness to them, not to slam it in their face. Whether they walk through that doorway (and the consequences of that action or non-action) is something God will handle.

If we shut the doors of forgiveness on anyone that had commited a sin, most churchs would be pretty empty places.

39 posted on 09/08/2008 1:22:43 PM PDT by Brookhaven
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To: Brookhaven

Did you read my posts?


40 posted on 09/08/2008 1:29:00 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Tax-chick; DieHard the Hunter

Well said, TC.


41 posted on 09/08/2008 1:33:05 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Grumpybutt

That’s disgraceful. But I was thinking specifically about women who abort “damaged” fetuses.

I’ve seen it first hand, if a child is somehow damaged in the womb, many OB’s will encourage the mom to get an abortion, some because of liability issues. And they’ve got family and friends all piling on “You can’t deal with this child”. Many of them don’t understand what Down’s really is. They just fear a horribly retarded child.

Then to see this capable woman cuddling her adorable baby on TV, many have to think, my God, I could have done that too. Guilt guilt guilt. I’m weak. Or I’m selfish. Or anger, like I saw on DU. “She should have aborted the tissue!”

I personally know three women who were told to get abortions by their doctors, because of x-rays or pills or such. All three had normal children.


42 posted on 09/08/2008 1:35:37 PM PDT by I still care (A thousand screaming Germans, some fake columns and swooning girly-men does not a campaign make.)
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To: trisham
I'm sorry, I was probably reacting to this last line:

I agree with you and trisham that the process of reconciliation for post-abortive women cannot in any way "fudge" the gravity of the sin or their responsibility for it. One has not repented of sin if one has not taken responsibility for sinning.

And I agree with you. The truth is everyone that has weighed in on this (including myself) would probably find ourselves in total agreement if found ourselves face to face so we could quickly hash out the fine points.

I just have a real point of emhpasis of showing mercy for those that have sinned and come to realization they have done something wrong, yet don't know what to do about it becuase the either don't know God, or don't know how to forgive themselves even if they have been forgiven by God.

43 posted on 09/08/2008 1:47:43 PM PDT by Brookhaven
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To: Brookhaven

My niece decided not to go through testing. She didn’t even want to know the sex until all us aunties told her we needed to know so we could buy pink (hopefully since we have lots of boys) stuff. And I had to know the name to put on the Christmas stocking.


44 posted on 09/08/2008 2:11:14 PM PDT by Mercat (Global warming doesn't kill polar bears, Sarah Palin does, with her bare hands)
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To: I still care

I so hope that Sarah’s baby will help more women see the light. I can’t imagine how anyone would abort a baby just because of a possible genetic problem when there are so many families who cannot have children and would give anything to take a precious little one to love and care for.


45 posted on 09/08/2008 2:27:52 PM PDT by Grumpybutt
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To: Brookhaven
The truth is everyone that has weighed in on this (including myself) would probably find ourselves in total agreement if found ourselves face to face so we could quickly hash out the fine points.

I just have a real point of emhpasis of showing mercy for those that have sinned and come to realization they have done something wrong, yet don't know what to do about it becuase the either don't know God, or don't know how to forgive themselves even if they have been forgiven by God.

**********************

I could not agree more, FRiend. Thanks for posting this article.

46 posted on 09/08/2008 3:07:35 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Brookhaven

Thank you for that verse. There is no scorn one can heap upon a woman who has had an abortion and realized too late what she has done, that is worse than the guilt she heaps upon herself.

The beauty of the Church’s response to these women is not just the forgiveness they assure, but the care they exhibit toward them. Because of this, millions of post abortive women are coming to the church for the forgiveness and the healing. And, they are on the front lines in this fight. They know the subject in a way others do not.


47 posted on 09/08/2008 3:15:22 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: Brookhaven
When NOW talks about choice, the fail to mention it isn't always the woman's choice. Boyfriends, parents, even school/government counselors can (and do) apply a tremendous amount of pressure on women.

True all too often. I used to date a woman who many years before had had an abortion. Her then fiance and her mother pressured her into having it. The fiance abandoned her afterwards (the scoundrel). It left some pretty severe emotional scars on her.

48 posted on 09/08/2008 4:04:36 PM PDT by JoeFromSidney (My book is out. Read excerpts at http://www.thejusticecooperative.com)
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To: ClearCase_guy
However, I'm convinced that a lot of strident left-wingers are acting out of their own self-hatred. Many of these people have abortions in their past and they feel guilty about it. As a self-defense mechanism, they become very hard-over on the importance of abortion. "It's legal. It's right. There is no shame in what I did." Now, if the country were to decide that 40 million abortions was a holocaust, these people would have to come to grips with their past.

What's needed is to let them know that it's okay for them to have made a mistake in the past, provided that they are wiser as a result and will help to avoid following in their footsteps. If that message could catch fire, there could be a sea change that would wipe out much of the 'pro-choice' movement.

49 posted on 09/08/2008 4:58:49 PM PDT by supercat
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To: Brookhaven; kanawa

Ping.


50 posted on 09/08/2008 5:00:19 PM PDT by fanfan (SCC:Canadians have constitutional protection to all opinions, as long as they are based on the facts)
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