Skip to comments.Democrats to kill 401(k)s for … privatized Social Security?
Posted on 10/23/2008 6:52:48 AM PDT by indianyogi
McCain -- go after them the Democrates.
The Democrats want to end the private retirement system that has allowed Americans to become a vast investor class and put them back in thrall of the federal government. This is nothing more than a second welfare system that would sit on top of the crumbling Social Security entitlement. It would leave the American working and middle classes with no retirement option other than a government handout. If the Democrats control both Congress and the White House, kiss your 401(k)s goodbye, and get into the bread lines first before the crowd arrives. (via Q&O)
Sarah, McCain - we need as AD on TV.
It would also seriously depress the stock market. Without all that money going into, typically, mutual funds, the downward pressure would slice at least a couple of thousand points off the Dow. This is one reason I am not back in the market yet.
Yeah, heard this a while back — I can’t believe McCain isn’t going that angle.
If Obama lies about McCain taking away SS then McCain certainly should tell people that Dems want to take your 401Ks and convert them to government annuities.
What a f-ing stupid proposal. I’ve seen this pop up over the last few weeks and wondered why McCain wasn’t hitting them on it.
They will do it twice. The first and last time.
Despite the behavior of the market during the last Presidential election, over longer periods of time, the stock market has done significantly better under Democratic administrations.
The accompanying chart shows stock returns under each occupant of the White House since the beginning of Harry Truman's second term. I have calculated the return from the end of the November election, since stocks will react to the policies of the incoming administration when it is elected, not when it takes office.
|President||Party||Date||Months in Office||Annualized Stock Return|
|Average from 1948 to Feb. 2006||Democrat||42.8%||15.26%|
The table tells the story. Since 1948, Republican Administrations have controlled the White House 57.2 percent of the time. But during the period that the GOP was in office, stock returns have averaged only 9.53 percent per year, while under Democratic administrations, stocks returned 15.25 percent per year, more than five percentage points higher.
Stocks did best over the 8 years of the Clinton administration, with stock returns at 19 percent per year. Stock returns were above average during the Truman, Ford, Reagan, Kennedy, Eisenhower, and Bush Senior administrations. And stock returns were only slightly below average during the Carter and Johnson Administrations.
By far the worst stock returns came under the Republican administrations of Richard Nixon and George W. Bush. Of course, even George W and Nixon cannot compare to the Great Depression era stock returns during the Republican administration of Herbert Hoover.
During the 69 months from the election of President Nixon in November 1968 through his resignation in July of 1974, stock returns averaged minus 1.32 percent per year while inflation exceeded 6 percent. Similarly, during the 63 months since the election of George Bush in November 2000, stock returns have been negative.
Source: Are Republicans or Democrats Better for the Stock Market? March 22, 2006.
Touch my 401(k) and there’ll be HELL TO PAY!.......
If this was passed, and you were forced to convert 401K’s to government accounts, I think I’d take the hit and cash out (ours are all in T-bills right now and we haven’t lost a penny from the crash.)
This type of plan would absolutely crash the stock market (more than it is now) because think of all the people invested in the stock market through their 401Ks.
I’d rather have half of what I’ve saved than none (I don’t trust the SS Administration to have my money there when I retire.) Of course, I guess I’d be forced to continue to contribute the obligatory 6 percent to this new plan, pay higher taxes on my regular pay since I can’t contribute to a pre-tax plan anymore, and basically just see my money used by the SS Admin. to continue their failed policy of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Do I believe that money would be held in savings for my retirement...absolutely not, it’d be used just like the SS money has been used for years.
“It would leave the American working and middle classes with no retirement option other than a government handout.”
What is to stop people from saving anyway. I realize that we would loose the tax deferred benefit, but those who were using a 401k anyway would most likely continue to put back for retirement.
On the other hand, I have known few if any people who actually put back enough that they would not need social security and medicare anyway.
They’re not leaving the money in the stock market, they’re giving it to the SS Admin and it will pay a 3% yield. You’ll be forced to contribute 6%, non pre tax.
Right now we fund ours at maximum allowed, mainly because of the pre-tax advantage. It has been in mutual funds, but we moved it to a stable fund (t-bills) a couple months ago when all the “weirdness” started.
Has this been seen ANYWHERE in the MSM beyond than “Workforce Management” and “Hot Air?”
One could still save, but there’d be less take home to save because you’d miss the pre-tax saving on a 401K, so you’d be paying higher taxes, and you’d be forced to contribute 6% to the mandatory gov’t plan.
Mine is down about 35%.........But that is market fluctuations. What the Congress is proposing is outright THEFT!!!!.........
And then the dot com bust. Fake gains. And oh the pain. Nasdaq killed a lot of people's life savings. And I guess it doesn't matter now. Obami will take the rest. I wish I was younger and had dual citizenship somewhere else. Like Norway. I'd be out of here.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Not to mention the fact that you would also get to pay tax every year on whatever pittance of a return you earned on those savings.
Sounds like the end of capitalism. A plan like that would have a huge effect on the investment markets and the investment brokers. It would deprive the country of capital. It would also give the Democrats more of your paycheck to give to their supporters, if you take away the pre-tax contributions.
It is just another big pool of money they want to grab. They must be stopped.
This is what McCain should feature in his campaign, but he will not.
Unfortunately, a fact that is lost on too many Americans.
“Privatized”...and all “invested” in government bonds. Yeah right!
This issue can win the damn election for us, IF McCain and Palin are smart enough to run with it.
This is going on in Argentina. The Peronists have destroyed the wealth of the country since WW2. The President Mrs. Kirschner wants to nationalize everyone pension or retirement plan.
The thing Joe Biden was warning us that we may think is unpopular in the first 6 months...remember he said tested and threat and they would do something unpopular but you got to hang with us. My guess is Obama will grab 401Ks and IRAs. Obama thinks he will be able to do anything. If he wins he will be able to do it. Who will stop them? Pelosi?
FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!!!!
What the hell are these idiots thinking? And why isn’t this making BIG headlines???
A majority of people will NOT support this idea, even if their 401k’s have tanked recently.
Let this be known...and Democrats will fall like dominoes.
The President that keeps spending and taxes in check is the one who will oversee a better economy absent wars, massive acts of terrorism or exploding bubbles.
The problem is who makes the fiscal decisions for the U.S. not who is president. The answer is congress, which is usually the OPPOSITE of the president in power.
Rather bold assumption, don't you think, given that there may be super majorities in both houses?
Savings of the type you envisage may indeed be an option...for the short term, anyway. Should this segment of the economy grow to any size, however, just how long do you think it will be before Congress casts yet another covetous eye towards this new potential money source?
Optimism has to be tempered by realism, especially in these parlous times.
REVIEW & OUTLOOK OCTOBER 23, 2008
"Argentine President Cristina Kirchner announced this week that her government intends to nationalize the country's private pension system. If [the Argentinian] Congress approves this property grab, $30 billion in individually held retirement accounts -- think 401(k)s -- managed by private pension funds will become government property."
I didn’t see your mention of Argentina b4 I posted in 34 a link....scary, huh?
If that happens here, there will be a NEW CIVIL WAR, and it will be worse that the old one...............
The government wants to steal your money!!!!1. That’s what this amounts to. Oh, they’ll give you an IOU.
Is this not telling as to the true Democrat mentality? ‘It’s not the people’s money, their savings, it’s OUR money.’
Come on, Johnny Mac. This is a great issue to run against Obama and the Dems with. As if a President Obama would veto any such legislation.
Man, this highlights the risks involved with the Dems in the majority in both Congressional houses and in control of the White House.
Meanwhile, some stupid taxpayers back the douche who will bring us crap like this.
Argentina is seriously disfunctional and corrupt. It has been that way since Peron in the 1940s. Obama will make America even worse.
I’m sorry, Red. I will have to disagree on the civil war thing.
It just won’t happen.
The US Army in 1861 was about as well armed as the citizenry of the time. Some local municipalities owned artillery for crying out loud!
We know how that turned out, and the US Army of today would make Waco look like a backyard bbq if it came down to it.
You think our soldiers wouldn’t fire on US? Some would refuse. Maybe most would. But if it comes down to chaos and their country crumbling, I suspect the Army will accept orders initially...on the premise that they’re only trying to restore order.
Once the rebellion is crushed (permanently)...it won’t matter where the individual soldiers stand, they will have inadvertantly ushered in the new order.
Can you say dow jones 3000 and a real depression in the USA. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid need to be inpeached and Obama not elected.
We the members of the GOP need to take it to the Streets to end this madness.
The Rat’s are truly trying to destroy capitalism.
We already have reason enough to start a new revolution...
If the marxist Obama and the democrats gain control of the federal government, that is enough reason to start the new revolution.
The fedreral government nationalizing 401k’s is only another shot being fired.
Its pointless to keep redrawing the line every time they cross the previous one. Its time to draw a line in the sand and be ready to fight when they cross it. No negotiations, no backing down, no mercy (at least not initially). This marxist takeover of ths country needs to end NOW!
McCain has to make an AD about this.
“This will raise your taxes NOW and DESTROY your retirement later.”
He definitely needs to end the AD with the question:
“What else will the liberals do once they have the largest controlling majorites in Congress and a socialist as President? Be afraid, be very afraid”
And the people will bring this on themselves. Why? Just Why? What is in it for the Obami masses? Sure if you have a couple million in your mattress, fine. But what about the working class? Do they want to be in charge of the Gulag? I don’t get it. Half the population is ready to give up all that made us great.......
How did they calculate these returns? The Dow was around 950 when Carter took office, dropped about 100 points in a year and then went back and forth for four years.
Thats why we get to them before hand...
There MUST be SOME that take their oath seriously? Its simply a matter of convincing key people that its time to fulfill their oath against the correct domestic enemy.
It can be done, we NEED to try! If they wont fight for us they need to at least agree to stand down.
What about Roth IRAs?
Did you contribute to the plan with before tax monies or after tax monies?
Because if you put you money in before taxes you’re going to get hosed when you go to withdraw those funds or they are converted to a government annuity. There will be huge taxes due on the entire amount.
So I point to all of those who said I was stupid for investing on my own, with after tax monies.
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