Who Done It?

Red State Blue ^ | 29th of October 2008 | David Aronin

[DIM1]

I find that the deepest and most disturbing mysteries arising from this election are those related to the current financial crisis. First, how the Democrats have managed to escape blame. Second, how and why the Republicans have let them....

...The question now being - is it too late to correct this mistake before the people most responsible for the crisis - largely Democrats - benefit overwhelmingly from its repercussions, and those who fought hardest to head it off - largely Republicans - are punished for it at the ballot box.

[Cindy]

WASHINGTON TIMES.com: "EX-SUBPRIME BANK EXECUTIVES FINANCES OBAMA Customers who lost savings note he slams housing crisis" by Jerry Seper (October 29, 2008) (Read More...)

[Cindy]

Related links:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2118305/posts

#

QUOTE:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2118305/posts?page=3#3

This is so very, very sad. I recommend reading the whole article.

On page 4 of this article - ARTICLE SNIPPET:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/29/ex-subprime-bank-executive-finances-obama/?page=4

“Chicago lawyer Clinton A. Krislov, who filed the lawsuit, said that as time goes by, the number of people who lost their money and still need to be repaid “is only going to decline by the number who die.”

Mr. Krislov, an acknowledged Obama supporter who contributed $6,500 to Mr. Obama’s federal and state campaigns, said he was not surprised that Ms. Pritzker was Mr. Obama’s top fundraiser based on her “savvy and ability to raise vast amounts of money.” But, he said, it was “ironic that in this case, she left the depositors and the taxpayers holding the bag and 1,400 depositors are still just out of luck.”

“These are people who, in the late 1990s when everyone else was putting their money into the stock market or making high-risk loans, conservatively put their money in the bank - one they thought they could trust.””

3 posted on October 29, 2008 2:55:15 AM PDT by Cindy

[Man50D]

I find that the deepest and most disturbing mysteries arising from this election are those related to the current financial crisis. First, how the Democrats have managed to escape blame. Second, how and why the Republicans have let them....

The answer is the GOP over many years has incrementally aligned its political ideology with the socialist Democrats to expand the GOP voter base. They are essentially one party.

[screaminsunshine]

The questions simply have not been put. Since both parties have a hand in this mess. We are forced to choose between tweedledee and tweedledum. I fear for the future.

[Conservative Vermont Vet]

I HAVE A THIRD QUESTION:

WHY NOW???

The "TIMING" of this entire financial meltdown (IMHO) is suspect.

Considering the flurry of activity over the last 5-6 weeks has NOT amounted as the old saying goes: "To A Hill of Beans" Someone in the administration who is anti-McCain, anti Republican, Pro Messiah, Anti Bush or all of the above, I am convinced (and I have NOT even put on my little tin foil hat)help push this to the forefront, whereby it will end up being one of THE major factors in McCain's defeat--if it comes to pass.

We all know W is a wuss and easily manipulated and I needn't list examples, but why on earth did he INSIST on this particular time to make it IMPERATIVE to promote this fiasco as a Sink or Swim issue?

Could our great Republic NOT survived another 6 weeks,considering nothing has been done to date anyway???

There is more than meets the eye here and I would not be surprised if Paulson or someone else was behind this and threatened Bush unless he got on the bandwagon he would go public?

After all we were exposed to Paulson's heavy handed,thuggish tactics when dealing with some of the most powerful and influential bank CEO's in the country.

I also realize that IF somehow W could have kept the lid on for another 6 weeks, he would have been pilloried by the media, but so what? What could anyone have done?

But again I reiterate, W is weak and easily influenced or he is naive enough (and that I don't accept) to think this would NOT have any impact on the elections.

Would be interested in your opinions

[SECURE AMERICA]

(I find that the deepest and most disturbing mysteries arising from this election are those related to the current financial crisis. First, how the Democrats have managed to escape blame. Second, how and why the Republicans have let them.... )

Nothing mysterious about either.
The MSM is nothing more then a propoganda arm of the Democrat Political Machine and is not going to allow blame to be attached to their bosses.
The Republicans are spineless wimps that have no leaders at this point in time

[Carley]

How is it that the entire system began it’s collapse when the dems took over in 2006.

Remember gas prices back then, remember the stock market back then, remember the unemployment rate back then.

I remember too, all those repubs, who thought it a good idea to allow the dems to take over, as it didn’t matter. Both parties were the same.

Really???????????

[Carley]

It is not that the republicans have no leader, it’s that they have no media megaphone.

Even FNC has gone over to the dark side, so afraid of being characterized as biased. What a joke.

[itsthejourney]

I too question the timing.

[rebapiper]

You can't get a Republican to run in New York. The Race between Hitlary and Rick Lazio for the New York Senate, Lazio and his family were getting death threats, only the
Poughkeepsie Journal reported on it. Look at Joe the plumber
they now have family services looking into his life. Family services in Ohio is a joke, look and the number of child abuse cases their, Social Service, Welfare is Big,Big,Big in Ohio. My Son lives in Cincinnati and he went thru hell in a Devorce. Legal Air has a bottom less pit of money and they want to keep it that way.
New Jersey lost their vocie, McGrevy got the courts to change the election rules so they could stop the Republicans from getting into office. Torroceli a Traitor to this Country was able to resign and of course get a pension and bring in another RAT to replace him.
New York has no voice, there should be a loud cry for Chuck Schumer’s resignation, were is the press. This state
run by the RATS and nothing can stop them. Now these RATS that are in office completely stopped the New York voters and approved Bloomberg to run a third term. Only a week away and Bloomber couldn't wait for another election.
WHAT IS SO IMPORTANT THAT BLOOMBERG HAD TO STAY IN OFFICE?
ONE WEEK DOESN'T GIVE BLOOMBERG ENOUGH TIME TO COVER UP HIS CORRUPTION SO HE GETS THE RATS IN OFFICE TO GO OVER THE HEADS OF THE NEW YORK VOTER AND ALLOW HEM A THIRD TERM.
I WONDER HOW MUCH MONEY AND FAVORS PASSED HANDS.
NEW YORK ALSO HAS A PIMP FOR A GOVERNOR, HE WAS PUT INTO OFFICE TO COVER UP THE PROSTITUTION RINGS IN NEW YORK. NOTHING CAN BE DONE AGAIN. COUNTRY GOING BROKE BUT THERE IS ENOUGH MONEY TO RAISE RENTS, SECTION 8, MORE MONEY FOR THE CON ARTISTS THAT RUN THE LOW INCOME HOUSING. HOW MUCH MONEY WAS PAID OUT TO THE RATS TO PUT THRU A RENT INCREASE/

[rebapiper]

Election was almost at it highest when the Demorats had to take over the Senate, they had to keep the corruption under wraps. As long as they are in powers they will go thru with bring down this country.
This Meltdown goes back to Greenspan and Bob Rubin.
Why did Trent Lott and Dick Army let Rubin off the hook? All America should be calling for an investigation on Rubin the Clinton Secry.of Treasury.

[The Hound Passer]

It is not that the republicans have no leader, it’s that they have no media megaphone.

Exactly. The Dems have the support of those who own the printing press, the info gate keepers in society. If a large majority of the MSM buries the story then its as-if it didn't happen. Most people need to hear complex stories repeatedly over a few days for it to sink in.

The current crisis is as complicated and arcane as any since the S&L bailout. Most people just don't have the interest or attention span to understand it in anything more than a bumper sticker slogan. The press bumper sticker says "Blame Wall Street," which is repeated nightly so it sticks. And the Dems sneak under the table.

Now the GOP could layout a very solid case against the Dems, esp., Frank, Dodd, Shumer, but the press isn't listening. They might as well make their case to the fish in the sea like Aquaman.

[Carley]

The dems are controlling the vote counting too.

Remember the fiasco on primary day when the votes were NOT coming in from Gary Indiana.

They were asking......how many votes do you need.

The fraud in the dem controlled precincts is getting out of hand.

O knew he needed 200,000 fraudulent votes in Ohio and tried to make sure he got them.

Now we’ll see if the repubs have enough poll watchers, challengers, and lawyers to keep the election honest.

I am not confident due to the thugs in the O camp.

[Carley]

Bloomberg just came to NJ to campaign for a lefty rabbi who is running against Scott Garrett.

Garrett is a true conservative and of course, we know Bloomers is a true socialist.

[DIM1]

Thank you for your reply.
You had written:
“The answer is the GOP over many years has incrementally aligned its political ideology with the socialist Democrats to expand the GOP voter base. They are essentially one party.”

I think that there is something very essential missing from this analysis. That is the fact that - our founders created a government for men here on earth as it is - rather than for perfected beings in the Messianic era or in the World-to-Come. To do that, and do it without resort to tyranny, they crafted a system that normally requires a great deal of comprise to get anything done. The only exceptions being in national emergencies - such as the Civil War - or the - very - rare cases where congress, the executive and the courts are all on the same ideological page. But, even when the latter conditions occu, they don’t last.

As a result anyone in a position to try and get legislation enacted has to prioritize what they want done, and be willing to give up or modify the lesser to gain the greater.

That’s exactly what GW has been doing in regards to the war - particularly since the Dems took over congress. He just was not going to let them end the operations in Iraq before we settled things there, or let other vital security measures be eliminated, he needed democrats on his side to sustain that position, and he was willing to give what he had to in order to get and keep their votes.

One might expect that - if anyone would - it would be my fellow conservatives - who: understood the nature of the system that the founders created, the level of compromise required to make it work, and agree with the position that -
existing military operations, the maintenance of our military and security services, and continuation of vital legislation - such as the Patriot Act - would and should take precedence over other concerns - such as budget deficits - and do so even if the latter issues are pretty fundamental under normal circumstances. One might also expect that - if anyone would - it would be conservatives who accept the cards they are dealt and try their best to play as good of a hand as they can - instead of pretending that things were different, or folding while there was still good hope for eventual success.

But, I have been and continue to be often disappointed on that score.

Regards,
DIM1

[DIM1]

Thank you!
100%
This is not “your father’s” left. They control most of the “gate keeping” nodes in our society - educational, professional/accrediting organizations, medical, helping professions, human resources, media/entertainment. They have come this far towards controlling who goes where in every facet of the culture and how the world is perceived.
They will not let go and they are playing for keeps.

We had 8 long years to try and put the GOP - and the country in general - on a more conservative track, but we blew it (for one thing we could have had congressional hearings into communist influence in education, ties between Marxists and Islamists; coalesced around a body of viable conservative candidates and a solid plan of action etc). If we don’t own up to our own responsibility for those failures - and try and “pick up our marbles and go home” - we will soon find there is no home to go to.

G-d Bless and save our Republic!
DIM1

[Man50D]

To do that, and do it without resort to tyranny, they crafted a system that normally requires a great deal of comprise to get anything done.

I appreciate your very thoughtful reply however there is one very fundamental problem with this statement. There is no definition or limit as to what is considered an acceptable amount of compromise. Such a gray area can be very subjective.

Is granting amnesty to illegal aliens an acceptable compromise to achieve some other goal knowing our lax immigration policy has threatened and continues threaten our national security by making it easier for terrorists to pose as illegals? Is it acceptable to compromise at least some of our autonomy to the world order UN through the law of the sea treaty(UNCLOS)? Is it acceptable to compromise one of the tenets of the Constitution by restricting free speech under the pretense of campaign finance reform? Is it acceptable to compromise the intention of our founding fathers to disburse power to the people and limit that power to the select few who run the government by imposing more regulations under the fallacy of human induced global warming? Is it acceptable to compromise the capitalist principles on which our economy has operated with socialist government run economy via the bailout and purchasing of bank stock?

Combined President Bush, Senators McCain and Obama support these issues. It is difficult if not impossible to distinguish the difference between the two parties when the leaders of these parties agree on such key issues.

As a result anyone in a position to try and get legislation enacted has to prioritize what they want done, and be willing to give up or modify the lesser to gain the greater.

The result is the proverbial frog in the pot of water. It doesn't realize it is being slowly cooked to death as the heat is turned up incrementally. The same process is happening in this country. Too few people see the incremental socialism creeping into our society or attempt to deny it is happening. The "modifications" as you euphemisitcally phrase it, become full blown sacrifices of conservative principles. Far less is gained than is lost. The irony is the socialists never cede their principles. They just keep hammering away gaining one inch of ground at a time until theri opposition is willing to modify or compromise their principles. There is a point at which compromise becomes capitulation. The GOP has clearly moved beyond that point.

[DIM1]

Thank you for your reply.
You had written:
“Nothing mysterious about either.
The MSM is nothing more then a propoganda arm of the Democrat Political Machine and is not going to allow blame to be attached to their bosses.
The Republicans are spineless wimps that have no leaders at this point in time”

I certainly agree that the MSM is deeply biased and that that is an important factor in this and many other ills, but, I don’t believe that fact alone is sufficient to explain this. For example, there are some people I know who have a basic knowledge of the role of key Democrats - Sen Dodd and Rep Frank for instance - in causing the conditions that led to the meltdown, but, who are also still under the impression that “something of this magnitude just has to be a product of deeper and hidden forces as well.” Hence they are left open to suggestions about a “culture of greed”
for which Republicans are believed to be at least eqully responsible as others. And, these don’t happen to be stupid people either.

I think that kind of example points to other areas as factors in this problem - widespread ignorance of basic economics, even amongst persons well-educated in other areas - being one key element.

As for “Republicans being spineless wimps,”I hardly think that description applies to either Sen McCain or Gov Palin - the Senator certainly has his shortcomings - but lack of courage is not one of them. And, it’s not as if other sensitive matters haven’t been touched on and put into play - Sen Obama’s dishonesty has been mentioned, his socialist views labeled correctly and his association with unrepentant terrorists brought to light by the McCain/Palin team. What we seem to have here is largely a failure of focus - it was the economic crisis that put Sen McCain’s post-convention lead in the tank, and so that needed to be made the central issue of the campaign from that point on. Plain and simple.

There is another problem that also affects our ability to get these kinds of messages out and circulated - and that is a matter of organization. The left - particularly the anti-war movement - has developed a network of LOCAL activists groups whose main functions are to a, monitor local coverage of the war, and b. identify coverage they don’t like, and, c. make their displeasure know in a very personal manner - letters, emails and phone calls directly to those responsible for the “offending” programing, as well as face-to-face meetings with them. And, they let advertisers know of their feelings as well. To my knowledge, we have yet - at this late date - to develop a network of that kind.

All the best!
DIM1

[DIM1]

Thank you for your reply.

You had written:
“The “TIMING” of this entire financial meltdown (IMHO) is suspect...I am convinced (and I have NOT even put on my little tin foil hat)help push this to the forefront, whereby it will end up being one of THE major factors in McCain’s defeat—if it comes to pass.”

There may well be reason to think the timing of the current economic crisis is suspect. The strongest argument I’ve encountered for that viewpoint is expressed in the article at the link below - an article by James Simpson in The American Thinker:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/barack_obama_and_the_strategy.html

But the reasons Mr Simpson gives for thinking so are very different than yours. And, frankly, I’m not sure what exactly it is that you believe to be in play.

You couldn’t really be saying that - a drop of the market by about 25% resulting in astounding losses affecting a significant proportion of the American people and which has had grave consequences for the economy of the world at large required any help at all in being “...pushed to the forefront,”
could you?!

Or, that President Bush, Genghis Khan, Godzilla, or even Barney Frank could have - somehow - “kept the lid” on it for “6 months,” 6 days, or 6 minutes -
do you?

What am I missing here?
Please share.

Regards,
DIM1