FBI: Zetas arming for confrontation with U.S.

McAllen Monitor ^ | October 29, 2008 | Jeremy Roebuck

[Styria]

Thanks!

[TKDietz]

You bet.

[TKDietz]

Thanks.

[Ladycalif]

ping

[happinesswithoutpeace]

Moving it within the borders.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/030310/10hez.htm

[lentulusgracchus]

I think the social ills associated with alcohol abuse far outweigh anything we would see with full decriminalization of all recreational drugs.

You have before you the example of 19th-century China, whose society was destroyed by opium.

Why you persist in thinking that legalization of powerful narcotics and uppers wouldn't have profound social costs is a little hard to see.

[Fichori]

Only problem with legalizing drugs is America would become one big third world slum.

Think hairy hippies that haven’t showered in six months.

If everybody was zoned out and high, the Mexicans would just walk in.

[B4Ranch]

>If everybody was zoned out and high, the Mexicans would just walk in.<

With 30 million of the illegals here now, you mean it will get worse?

[Ken H]

You have before you the example of 19th-century China, whose society was destroyed by opium.

And you have the example of 18th and 19th century America, where there was no drug prohibition. We survived, and addiction was no higher then than now. And we had no organized crime gangs getting filthy rich.

[thinkthenpost]

Well, IMO Britain was in some ways the pusher for the whole of China. I guess it comes down to some folks will use and be,.... consumed by their addiction, some folks will use recreationally (includes current mind alterers), and hopefully most folks will just find some other outlet.
I have read that Native Americans handle alcohol differently than European descendants, a difference in physiology. I would be curious if the Chinese, or Pacific Rim residents have a similar affinity for opiates. Many Native American civilizations didn't fare well after contact with Europeans either in most cases.

I also don't necessarily dismiss legalization having ,... social costs, I do believe the social costs that alcohol presents are and will continue to be higher, and I believe once the illegality surrounding the current illegal drugs is lifted much of the social ills that are ongoing and onerous will largely end. I point to the gangland wars of the 30’s, Prohibition ends they mostly end, or the ongoing war in Juarez. The decriminalization of MJ will end the fight over control of the smuggling routes and maybe 1100+ folks wouldn't die in a 10 month period. You have your opinion I have mine, truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

[lentulusgracchus]

And you have the example of 18th and 19th century America, where there was no drug prohibition. We survived, and addiction was no higher then than now.

Well, actually, it was -- in the case of alcohol (I've no idea about opiates and cocaine).

Studies of alcohol use before and after Prohibition shows lower consumption (in a bigger population) and a rotation in favored drinks. Rum almost disappeared, wine almost disappeared, beer came to the fore. And average consumption was down significantly, and it has never recovered.

The 20% rate of alcoholism in France from habituation through social use also argues the same point. Unbridled use leads to higher incidence of habituation and addiction. And alcohol isn't nearly as addictive as what is in the street pharmacy of today.

[Ken H]

What is the source for your alcohol consumption stats during prohibition? I thought use dropped significantly in the first few years, but by 1932 it had returned nearly to pre-prohibition levels.

I also thought there was a trend away from beer and toward hard liquor. At any rate, here are the opiate and cocaine figures from the USDOJ website:

"By 1900, about one American in 200 was either a cocaine or opium addict."

--http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/demand/speakout/06so.htm

That is 0.5% of the population. Fast forward 100 years:

"There were an estimated 980,000 hardcore heroin addicts in the United States in 1999, 50 percent more than the estimated 630,000 hardcore addicts in 1992."

--http://www.usdoj.gov/ndic/pubs07/794/heroin.htm

"The demand for both powdered and crack cocaine in the United States is high. Among those using cocaine in the United States during 2000, 3.6 million were hardcore users who spent more than $36 billion on the drug in that year."

--http://www.usdoj.gov/ndic/pubs07/794/cocaine.htm

Adding the two figures for 2000 together, it works out to over 4 million hardcore users. Using a population figure of 280,000,000, you get about 1.5%, or triple the 1900 estimate on the DOJ website.

_____________________________

Iran and Singapore had higher rates of heroin addiction than the Netherlands according to the latest figures I found, so I think any claim that tough laws curb addiction are shaky at best.

[Fichori]

“With 30 million of the illegals here now, you mean it will get worse?”

Think equilibrium.