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Ban on ill treatment of farm animals winning
SF Chronicle ^

Posted on 11/05/2008 9:48:28 AM PST by WilliamReading

11-05) 08:17 PST SACRAMENTO -- A measure that would ban farmers from raising egg-laying hens, veal calves and pregnant pigs in small cages and crates by 2015 appeared to be headed for victory this morning.

Supporters of Proposition 2 said the initiative would guarantee farm animals a better life, giving them the space they need to stand up, turn around, lie down and extend their wings, as well as prevent diseases caused by overcrowding.

Opponents argue that the measure would put California's egg industry out of business, as well as put consumers at risk for disease from imported eggs produced in countries with less stringent standards.

Voters seemed to be siding with the Humane Society of the United States, the backers of the initiative.

With 95 percent of the precincts reporting, the "Stop Animal Cruelty" measure was winning by 63 percent.

"California voters have taken a stand for decency and compassion and said that the systemic mistreatment of animals on factory farms cannot continue," said Wayne Pacelle, president and chief operating officer of the Humane Society. "All animals deserve humane treatment, including animals raised for food."

Florida, Arizona, Colorado and Oregon have passed similar laws for swine and veal.

But California would be the first state in the nation to demand that all egg-producing chickens be kept in more spacious enclosures or free to roam around a henhouse.

Most pig and veal farmers in the state already have gone to larger pen sizes for their animals, making the battle mostly between poultry ranchers and animal-rights activists.

California produces about 6 percent of the nation's table eggs, a $330 million business in 2007. Fifty percent of the eggs sold in California come from other states.

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: california; chickens

1 posted on 11/05/2008 9:48:28 AM PST by WilliamReading
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To: WilliamReading

California is weird, isn’t it?


2 posted on 11/05/2008 9:49:05 AM PST by WilliamReading
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To: WilliamReading

It won early. The largest vote for then any other Prop in history.


3 posted on 11/05/2008 9:50:31 AM PST by edcoil (Looking for a new tagline - do you have one I can use?)
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To: WilliamReading

Get a few chickens for pets and let them run around in your yard... you get fresh eggs every day and they eat all your bugs. Plus you may have to go veggie... beef and pork will be $20 a pound.


4 posted on 11/05/2008 9:51:46 AM PST by BigFinn (Only the insane would ever elect a President Hussein?)
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To: edcoil

How about requiring air conditioning and cable tv for the chickens as well?


5 posted on 11/05/2008 9:52:26 AM PST by WilliamReading
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To: WilliamReading

As a vegetarian, I see this as only a good thing.

Flame away!


6 posted on 11/05/2008 9:53:41 AM PST by Red in Blue PA (Little known fact: Barack Obama translated into Kenyan means "Jimmy Carter")
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To: BigFinn

I live on the 5th floor of an apartment building. I wonder if the neighbors would mind if I started raising chickens on the patio?


7 posted on 11/05/2008 9:53:49 AM PST by WilliamReading
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To: WilliamReading

Arizona and Nevada chicken and egg business: Buy stock in it.


8 posted on 11/05/2008 9:54:23 AM PST by Uncle George
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To: WilliamReading

Great! We’ll kill our un-born children...but we protect those chickens.... I must be living in an alternate universe because CLEARLY the rest of America disagree with me.


9 posted on 11/05/2008 9:54:48 AM PST by HappyinAZ
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To: WilliamReading
Ban on ill treatment of farm animals winning

THANK GOD!

10 posted on 11/05/2008 9:54:59 AM PST by GinaLolaB (=^..^=)
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To: WilliamReading

Oh, chickens are easy to raise on your own. A great addition to anyone’s garden, providing zoning allows it.

One of DH’s friends, an agricultural engineer, works for a farm equipment company that makes those cages. Studies show that the hens in pairs or trios in cages are under less stress than free-range birds. In two’s or three’s, they soon work out their pecking order and settle in.

With our free range birds we have battled raccoons, possums, skunks, owls and even possibly a wildcat (rare in this area) I can the advantages of confinement for the birds’ safety.

We shouldn’t confuse ourselves with the facts, though. (/sarcasm)


11 posted on 11/05/2008 9:56:05 AM PST by Cloverfarm (Children are a blessing ...)
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To: BigFinn

One of our neighbors has chickens. I’d love to do the same, but we travel and I don’t think the kennel that boards our dogs would take chickens. :)


12 posted on 11/05/2008 9:56:24 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Are you a conservative vegetarian?


13 posted on 11/05/2008 9:58:49 AM PST by Watershed
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To: BigFinn

wish I could have a few chickens...but in Los Angeles, hmmmm especially in our area, that would be frowned on....


14 posted on 11/05/2008 9:59:17 AM PST by pollywog (I will lift mine eyes to the hills from whence cometh my help. My help comes from the Lord...Ps 121)
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To: WilliamReading

Meanwhile, children are sent back to abusive, drug-using parents. Great, isn’t it?


15 posted on 11/05/2008 10:01:05 AM PST by RushIsMyTeddyBear
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To: pollywog

I lived in LA for 25 years and had 4 of them...built a moveable coop and moved it around the yard... one tip: don’t get roosters, they make a lot of noise and the neighbors don’t like it.


16 posted on 11/05/2008 10:06:13 AM PST by BigFinn (Only the insane would ever elect a President Hussein?)
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To: WilliamReading

“But California would be the first state in the nation to demand that all egg-producing chickens be kept in more spacious enclosures or free to roam around a henhouse.”

I see absolutely zero problems with this.

Three hens spend their entire egg laying life in a 1 foot cube box. What hurts in giving them more space or free roam.

We once had several houses of layers I know I have been there so flame away.


17 posted on 11/05/2008 10:08:22 AM PST by Bailee (2010 Elections are 2 years away - What are we going to do.)
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To: WilliamReading
My wife's cousin is in the egg business in CA. They spent millions of dollars for large modern state of the art facilities to house hens that produce a million eggs a day. In 7 years, when this law goes into effect, they will be out of business. Evidently they cannot adapt the new facilities to fit these requirements. I understand chickens only lay eggs productively for 2 years then they are sold or killed.
18 posted on 11/05/2008 10:16:51 AM PST by Uncle Hal
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To: BigFinn

I heard O family was celebrating in Kenya by slaughtering animals!!


19 posted on 11/05/2008 10:18:28 AM PST by indianyogi
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To: WilliamReading

Voters in California saw no reason to allow genuine cruelty upon animals raised for food. There is Biblical basis for this. A righteous man shows mercy upon his beast. But, the more-gentle practices of the farmer, a man or a woman or an entire family with a conscience, have given way to mechanized, industrial scale food production, from start to finish. Will Californians pay more for eggs, chicken, pork, veal and beef? Probably. Will this be a boon to nearby states that do not prohibit such practices? Probably. But, this is no reason to mock California voters. There are plenty enough reasons other than this.


20 posted on 11/05/2008 10:20:59 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: WilliamReading

An effective ban on stock raising has long been a goal of Robert F Kennedy Jr. He is being considered for EPA chief by Obama apparently.


21 posted on 11/05/2008 10:26:21 AM PST by Mad_as_heck (The MSM - America's (domestic) public enemy #1.)
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To: Bailee

Maybe the good people in California will share some space so the chickens have more room to roam?

Come on, don’t be selfish!


22 posted on 11/05/2008 10:33:01 AM PST by o_zarkman44 (Since when is paying more, but getting less, considered Patriotic?)
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To: RegulatorCountry
"A righteous man shows mercy upon his beast."

How about you point to the passage which states this.

23 posted on 11/05/2008 10:33:59 AM PST by Diplomat
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To: Diplomat

Proverbs 12:10:

“A righteous [man] regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked [are] cruel.”


24 posted on 11/05/2008 10:37:46 AM PST by OHelix
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To: Diplomat
A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast, but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.

- Proverbs 12:10

25 posted on 11/05/2008 11:01:54 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: GinaLolaB

You belong in a small cage!


26 posted on 11/05/2008 11:04:54 AM PST by dalereed
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To: Bailee

It is none of the Governments damn business. Is that so hard for you to understand? This is how most egg laying hens spend their lives.


27 posted on 11/05/2008 11:07:06 AM PST by ohioman
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To: RegulatorCountry

You seem like one of those metrosexual pansy males who would vote for Obama.


28 posted on 11/05/2008 11:09:00 AM PST by ohioman
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To: WilliamReading

Too bad people don’t care this much about the unborn.


29 posted on 11/05/2008 11:16:01 AM PST by dano1
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To: ohioman
You seem like one of those metrosexual pansy males who would vote for Obama.

And you sound like you're suffering from inadequacy issues. There is no good reason to torment animals that we use for food. They're already giving their lives to feed us, isn't that enough?

As far as my citing Proverbs, if you find that offensive, it's quite frankly your problem and not mine. I suggest you take it up with God.

Check my posting history, if you have any doubts about where my votes have landed. I didn't care much at all for McCain, never have, but I voted for Sarah Palin and her political future.

So, what are you, some sort of life-long McCainiac?

30 posted on 11/05/2008 11:18:45 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: Bailee
“I see absolutely zero problems with this.”

These things are gateways for animal rights activists to ban all animal production. That is the goal.
That's whats wrong with it.

What looks cruel to humans, is many times not to animals. Farmers must keep animals relatively comfortable, or the animals will not be productive.

31 posted on 11/05/2008 11:23:07 AM PST by HereInTheHeartland (Flush Obama/Biden in 2008!!!!)
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To: dano1
Too bad people don’t care this much about the unborn.

Isn't that the truth.

32 posted on 11/05/2008 11:35:10 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: HereInTheHeartland
These things are gateways for animal rights activists to ban all animal production. That is the goal.

That's whats wrong with it.

Won't be the first time a righteous concern about righting a wrong has been ridden to control by these socialists. Look at segregation and the Civil Rights movement. A desire to end segregation enforced by law led to the end of free association, among other things.

33 posted on 11/05/2008 11:39:29 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry

I think it’s admirable for farmers to be kind to their animals, and I might even agree to some regulation to that end. But:

Those who oppose this measure are not doing so out of “pro-animal cruelty”, but the recognition that the left systematically uses such seemingly well meaning regulations to strangle American industry.

Many people enthusiastically support the measure out of concern for animals, not realizing how damaging the result would be economically.

Defining existing standards as “cruel” is arguably analogous to including the putting of panties on someone’s head within the definition of “torture”.


34 posted on 11/05/2008 11:44:26 AM PST by OHelix
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To: OHelix
Those who oppose this measure are not doing so out of “pro-animal cruelty”, but the recognition that the left systematically uses such seemingly well meaning regulations to strangle American industry.

Never said they were. I pointed out that there is a Biblical basis for avoiding unnecessary cruelty to animals. I'll admit that the notion of future broiler hens, with their beaks snipped off so they won't peck each other to death after going basically crazy in extremely close confines, does not whet my appetite, and I won't stand up for any "farmer" who would do such a thing. These aren't farmers, they're industrial processors. These practices were not borne of necessity, they were borne of a desire to increase productivity, and in turn, profit. Profit is good, when it's earned in a good way. My definition of good is derived from Biblical precepts. For others, apparently not. That's what voting is for, to establish the will of the people, in a municipality, a county, a state or a country. Californians did that. We're all still free to agree or to disagree, at least for now.

35 posted on 11/05/2008 11:54:50 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry
Just because of your queasiness for life on a farm, many chicken farmers in Ca will be destroyed. You are using your heart instead of your brain.
36 posted on 11/05/2008 12:53:03 PM PST by ohioman
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Comment #37 Removed by Moderator

To: ohioman

I’m surrounded by farms where I live, ohioman. I was raised surrounded by farms. My paternal grandparents were farmers, as were an uncle or two. None of them caged their chickens in a foot square, they had a decent sized coop and/or a fenced yard. With the exception of one neighbor of my parents, they were all good to their animals, and those still actively farming, still are. The one that was not good owned a large chicken operation, now defunct, for good reason, and is no longer farming. Piles of dead chickens with every heat wave, couldn’t be bothered to see to it that there was at least some air circulation in that long, low, tin-roofed chicken house. He’s active in the Democrat party now, and supported Obama. He also beat his dogs for no discernable reason at all. Not a happy man, but, he’s known prosperity of a sort.


38 posted on 11/05/2008 1:07:01 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry

Who cares. My grandfather owned a large chicken operation. Profit and meeting the large bills to run the operation was the reason he packed them in. And he loved chickens and always had quite a few “non-egg layers” roaming the farm.


39 posted on 11/05/2008 1:41:25 PM PST by ohioman
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To: BigFinn; pollywog

It’s called a chicken tractor and it’s a great idea.

http://home.centurytel.net/thecitychicken/tractors.html


40 posted on 11/05/2008 1:45:44 PM PST by Dr.Zoidberg (11/5/08 There are 1536 days until communist occupation ends. What are you doing to shorten the war?)
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To: ohioman
Who cares.

You, apparently.

41 posted on 11/05/2008 3:28:21 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: HereInTheHeartland; ohioman
Relative comfortable your kidding right, and I believe it to be the FDA concerns for the following reason.

These hens are severely stressed and the mortality rates can get excessive. Stress leads to increased susceptible to disease and illness. Not sure how it is handled now, but we were required to incinerate the dead and diseased birds to prevent protect the native birds(late 70s).

These farmers are producing food for our dinner table where do you draw the line as to Government(FDA)involvement.

It is alleged that China force feeds swine waste water to increase market weight is that acceptable for you.

42 posted on 11/05/2008 4:56:56 PM PST by Bailee
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To: Bailee
” These farmers are producing food for our dinner table where do you draw the line as to Government(FDA)involvement.”

In a free society we have as little government as possible. The government should ensure food is safe from pathogens and toxic chemicals. Animal rights however is a religion. Let the market place dictate religiously based food production, not the government.
Free Republic is for those who believe in freedom from government and freedom of government, that is what i believe.

“It is alleged that China force feeds swine waste water to increase market weight is that acceptable for you. ?”

I don't eat anything from China, as I assume the food would be contaminated. This thread was about a bill that passed in California, not China

43 posted on 11/05/2008 5:31:34 PM PST by HereInTheHeartland (Flush Obama/Biden in 2008!!!!)
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To: ohioman
http://ag.ansc.purdue.edu/poultry/publication/commegg/sld006.htm These cages are stacked five high we only stacked three but other than that it looks the same. Packed this full I would imagine the ammonia level would be lethal. Guess not.

You call this farming sorry my family and I disagree and got out of the business. Everyday of my early teenage life I collected hundred of dead or dying birds to Incinerate.

The day we lost power and the generator failed to kick in we must have lost 20-30 thousands birds in less than 1 hour.

I am a life long hunter/fisher but this is senseless cruelty

44 posted on 11/05/2008 5:35:44 PM PST by Bailee
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To: HereInTheHeartland
“I don't eat anything from China, as I assume the food would be contaminated. This thread was about a bill that passed in California, not China”

Imagine that China has no FDA. So you have no problem with me force feeding waste-water to my livestock or how about re-feeding cattle manure as food for Swine. You okay with me selling this pork to the slaughter house.

The Government(FDA) prevents me from doing this as a health concern. If this was about animal rights we could only be vegetarians.

45 posted on 11/05/2008 5:48:12 PM PST by Bailee
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To: RegulatorCountry

Thank you.


46 posted on 11/06/2008 11:32:59 AM PST by Diplomat
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