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Russian navy: 20 dead from poison in sub accident
AP, via Yahoo! News ^ | November 9, 2008 | STEVE GUTTERMAN

Posted on 11/09/2008 4:31:13 AM PST by Virginia Ridgerunner

The fire safety system on a new Russian nuclear-powered submarine malfunctioned on a test run in the Sea of Japan, spewing chemicals that killed at least 20 people and injured 21 others, officials said Sunday.

It was Russia's worst naval accident since torpedo explosions sank another nuclear-powered submarine, the Kursk, in the Barents Sea in 2000, killing all 118 seamen aboard.

The victims died of poisoning from Freon gas that was released Saturday when the fire-extinguishing system accidentally turned on, said Sergei Markin, an official with Russia's top investigative agency.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: accident; akula; deathtoll; freon; kremlin; navy; russia; russiannavy; submarine
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And the Russians think that they can successfully challeneg the U.S. Navy on the high seas again with this kind of shoddy construction and quality control of their submarine fleet?
1 posted on 11/09/2008 4:31:13 AM PST by Virginia Ridgerunner
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

Sad thing for the Russians.

They’re lucky it did not occur at depth, or they would have lost another boat the King Neptune.


2 posted on 11/09/2008 4:37:39 AM PST by roaddog727 (BS does not get bridges built - the funk you see is the funk you do)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner
Never heard of “Freon” being used in a fire suppression system. “Halon” I'm familiar with, but it doesn't poison you, it just displaces all of the oxygen and you keel over.
Very bad idea to even install such a system in any area other than an ammunition magazine, or paint storage locker etc.
3 posted on 11/09/2008 4:42:29 AM PST by NavVet ( If you don't defend Conservatism in the Primaries, you won't have it to defend in November)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

Actually this one was scheduled to be leased to the Indian navy. [ Wonder how that leasing works out]

“The Indian Navy has signed an agreement with Russia to lease a new Akula II submarine, SSN Nerpa, for ten years. The vessel is being completed at the Komsomolsk-on-Amur shipyard and is scheduled for delivery in late 2008.”

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/akula/

Note that the Nerpa was commissioned in December 2000

More forward torpedo room problems like the Kursk?


4 posted on 11/09/2008 4:43:52 AM PST by Covenantor ("Men are ruled...by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern." Chesterton)
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To: NavVet

Same thing.

Freon 13B1 is also known as Halon 1301 and is used in fire suppression systems.


5 posted on 11/09/2008 4:46:34 AM PST by Covenantor ("Men are ruled...by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern." Chesterton)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

Is this the Interntional Crisis Biden was talking about?


6 posted on 11/09/2008 4:46:37 AM PST by mlocher (USA is a sovereign nation)
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To: NavVet

Don’t the Russians know that freon is banned because it is a greenhouse gas and destroys the ozone! Where are the environazis when you need them...


7 posted on 11/09/2008 4:48:30 AM PST by DB
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

Uhh, Freon isn’t poison- it’s an oxygen displacer. May not be much to choose from, but those poor guys suffocated.


8 posted on 11/09/2008 4:49:59 AM PST by backhoe (Just an old Keyboard Cowboy, Ridin' the Trakball into the Sunset of America...)
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To: Covenantor

Seems Dangerous to use in a fire.

“Burning Freon produces a nerve gas that was used to kill troops in World War I. EPA spokeswoman Tina Kreisher said Monday that the supply below the twin towers appears to be in no danger of igniting.”


9 posted on 11/09/2008 4:51:15 AM PST by NavVet ( If you don't defend Conservatism in the Primaries, you won't have it to defend in November)
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To: Covenantor
Boy a sub could become a vessel of death on short order with no oxygen... The fire suppression system seems to be more dangerous than the fire threat...
10 posted on 11/09/2008 4:51:25 AM PST by DB
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

I’ve always said that Russians are only a good, competent military when you’re inside their borders....the exception being World War II (mainly because they wanted revenge against the Germans). Now, if they designed a Nuclear sub to roam the Black Sea, they could make it perfectly stealthy.


11 posted on 11/09/2008 4:52:15 AM PST by MuttTheHoople (Bombing Billy Ayers-the Timothy McVeigh of his generation)
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To: NavVet

Without oxygen the fire doesn’t burn so the threat of decomposition goes away.


12 posted on 11/09/2008 4:52:53 AM PST by DB
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

Too bad the USSR didn’t send their *navy* in to invade democratic,harmless,tiny Georgia last summer.Maybe the death count would have including fewer innocents and more aggressors.


13 posted on 11/09/2008 4:54:20 AM PST by Gay State Conservative (Obama:"Ich bin ein beginner")
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To: backhoe

I have always had the feeling that my destiny was to be at sea on a sub, I have tons of books, novels and last year I built a 52” model of a Gato class US sub, thats a WW2 submarine that was one class before the one used in the movie with Cary Grant, the pink one.

My heart reaches out to fellow sailors with no animosity at all. The Russians have not had good luck these last few years with their naval forces.


14 posted on 11/09/2008 4:56:17 AM PST by Eye of Unk (Aleutica, the new name of Free Alaska)
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To: NavVet

how do you think our Space Shuttle crews feel about it?

Read:http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/reference/shutref/orbiter/cw/smokedet.html


15 posted on 11/09/2008 4:56:36 AM PST by Covenantor ("Men are ruled...by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern." Chesterton)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

Prolly mean 40 are dead.


16 posted on 11/09/2008 4:56:54 AM PST by VaBthang4 ("He Who Watches Over Israel Will Neither Slumber Nor Sleep")
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To: Covenantor
This sub is cursed. I wouldnt want to be a sailor on this thing after 20 others got killed durning construction.
Sailors are supericous about stuff like this.
The Russians might as well scrap the damn thing and build another one.
17 posted on 11/09/2008 4:57:19 AM PST by Yorlik803 ( Freedom- 07-04-1776-11-06-2008. RIP)
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To: MuttTheHoople
Now, if they designed a Nuclear sub to roam the Black Sea, they could make it perfectly stealthy.

But what purpose would *that* serve? Tiny neighboring nations....ones with oil or major oil pipelines wouldn't be frightened by *that*.And the cowering scumbags populating western and central Europe whould have no need to shout "anything you say,Ivan...just don't shut off our gas supplies".

18 posted on 11/09/2008 4:58:20 AM PST by Gay State Conservative (Obama:"Ich bin ein beginner")
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To: DB

Boy are they in trouble now Al Gore is going to have a talk with them


19 posted on 11/09/2008 4:59:53 AM PST by Vaduz (and just think how clean the cities would become again.)
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To: Eye of Unk
I have always had the feeling that my destiny was to be at sea on a sub, I have tons of books, novels and last year I built a 52” model of a Gato class US sub, thats a WW2 submarine that was one class before the one used in the movie with Cary Grant, the pink one. My heart reaches out to fellow sailors with no animosity at all. The Russians have not had good luck these last few years with their naval forces.

Operation Petticoat!

I saw that when I was a kid. Yes, the Russians have had some bad luck-- my whole family, except for me, were sailors of some sort.

20 posted on 11/09/2008 5:05:49 AM PST by backhoe (Just an old Keyboard Cowboy, Ridin' the Trakball into the Sunset of America...)
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To: mlocher
Is this the Interntional Crisis Biden was talking about?

No, that's going to involve stealing the wealth of individuals, a national curfew, and a police state. Maybe not so international at first, at least until Obama's "allies" join in to help crush the uprising from US citizens that won't stand for the new fascism bestown upon them.

21 posted on 11/09/2008 5:11:22 AM PST by meyer (We are all John Galt)
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To: meyer
Maybe not so international at first

If any states cede from the union, it could be more internation quicker than you suggest. (smile).

22 posted on 11/09/2008 5:13:49 AM PST by mlocher (USA is a sovereign nation)
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To: backhoe

I’m not sure how you define poison. I’ve been involved in a massive freon leak aboard a submarine, and it was handled as a “Poison Gas” event. Many of the crew inhaled enough of the freon to make them very sick. Fortunately, none of us died in the incident.


23 posted on 11/09/2008 5:14:26 AM PST by deaconjim (Because He lives...)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

New? its am Akula II


24 posted on 11/09/2008 5:14:26 AM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

WORLDS MOST DANGEROUS JOBS: Fishing boats in the Bering Sea from Alaska. Nuke sub crewman on Soviet subs.


25 posted on 11/09/2008 5:14:39 AM PST by RetiredArmy (America is entering four very long and cold years. First victim: liberty)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

Terrible for the sailors/submariners and their families.

I’ve been in a computer room when the Halon 1301 balls opened and let loose. I’m not sure I would have made it out of the room in time, but for a co-worker with really long legs who assisted me.

It would be a very frightening way to die.


26 posted on 11/09/2008 5:14:46 AM PST by Roses0508
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To: backhoe

Thanks, I couldn’t remember the name of the movie.

The Russkies can build something bigger than us, they can build a LOT cheaply and basic,it was that lack of close tolerances that made firearms like the AK47 excell in battlefield conditions.

Their subs will do the job and the diesels nowadays can be quite stealthy, and as we all know from the movie The Hunt for Red October they can be massive in firepower. The Akula class is a formidable hunter/killer sub and they have built a full titanium hulled sub.
But in trying to compete with the US they in time pretty much bankrupted themselves, many subs are sunk at dock and I do not think they have any Typhoon class operational.


27 posted on 11/09/2008 5:15:18 AM PST by Eye of Unk (Aleutica, the new name of Free Alaska)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

Is it true that the fire extinguishing system was made in China?


28 posted on 11/09/2008 5:19:07 AM PST by Enterprise (No Oil for Democrats!)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner
It wasn't immediately clear why personnel affected failed to activate the individual breathing kits they were supposed to have, he said.

They didn't have them would be my guess.

29 posted on 11/09/2008 5:26:53 AM PST by csvset
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

Good men died, let us pray for their families.


30 posted on 11/09/2008 5:29:39 AM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: mlocher
If any states cede from the union, it could be more internation quicker than you suggest. (smile).

I'm in favor of letting things unfold a bit, but if (and that's a big IF) they go the way I fear, I will gladly report for duty with the state(s) that seceed.

31 posted on 11/09/2008 5:31:34 AM PST by meyer (We are all John Galt)
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To: NavVet

I thought they outlawed Halon because it destroys the O-zone layer?


32 posted on 11/09/2008 5:36:46 AM PST by Joe Boucher (An enemy of Islam)
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To: Eye of Unk

Most folks do not know of an incident on a Russian sub off the Carolina coast that had a reactor meltdown. Some very brave heros died keeping it from blowing and taking out a large part of our coast.


33 posted on 11/09/2008 5:40:26 AM PST by Joe Boucher (An enemy of Islam)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

Prayers for the families. My father adopted four boys whose father had died on the USS Oriskany and I caught a glimpse of how hard a tragedy like this affects children and wives. I pray God provides for these families and comforts them.


34 posted on 11/09/2008 5:41:20 AM PST by jer33 3
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To: KylaStarr; Cindy; StillProud2BeFree; nw_arizona_granny; Velveeta; Dolphy; appalachian_dweller; ...

ping


35 posted on 11/09/2008 5:41:22 AM PST by Calpernia (Hunters Rangers - Raising the Bar of Integrity http://www.barofintegrity.us)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner
I just recently watched an episode of the BBC series Spooks. The Season 7 Episode 2 was about a Russian sub attempting to tap into a transaltantic cable in an attempt to disrupt British communications.

It caused me to recall the previous Russian sub "accident". Now there is another "accident"?

It makes one go "hmmmmmmmm".

Oh, yeh, in Spooks, that Russian sub experienced an "accident" too.
36 posted on 11/09/2008 5:45:25 AM PST by TomGuy
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To: csvset

Yes thats rather strange, on subs even old old ones there are breathable air manifold fittings all through theboats that you can plug into similar to a mechanics shop air tool plug that they can breath off of.
There is more to the story of course that we won’t really hear about, it could actually be something similar to the Kursk in that they were testing something new and it blew up on them.


37 posted on 11/09/2008 5:49:06 AM PST by Eye of Unk (Aleutica, the new name of Free Alaska)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

The Akula class carry up to 12 Granat submarine launched cruise missiles.

Granat has a range of about 3000 km and delivers a 200 kiloton warhead .


38 posted on 11/09/2008 5:49:38 AM PST by Strategy
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To: mlocher
Is this the Interntional Crisis Biden was talking about?

No, you will not need to ask that question when it comes.

39 posted on 11/09/2008 5:58:18 AM PST by The_Media_never_lie
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To: Eye of Unk
You're likely close. I have a feeling we may find this new suppression system was retrofitted to the Akula IIs to avoid another Kursk-type explosion (i.e. a torpedo fuel explosion causing a massive detonation two minutes later).

All submariners share a common bond and enemy, the sea. My prayers for the lost.

40 posted on 11/09/2008 6:01:39 AM PST by Jonah Hex ("Never underestimate the hungover side of the Force.")
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To: jer33 3

Of course one has compassion for families of the submariners who died.

However, I love these Russian “weapons”. They’re more a threat to their users than to their perceived enemies. Seem to malfunction on a regular basis. I hope they sell a lot of them to the third world.


41 posted on 11/09/2008 6:04:57 AM PST by dools007
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To: Covenantor

Leased? Does that come complete with arsenal?


42 posted on 11/09/2008 6:06:37 AM PST by wolfcreek (I see miles and miles of Texas....let's keep it that way.)
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To: DB

Because of the closed atmosphere on subs you have emergency breathing masks that plug into a set of air banks. Donning masks should be automatically done by everyone within seconds.

It is about the first thing that a submariner learns how to do.


43 posted on 11/09/2008 6:08:42 AM PST by AndyJackson
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To: RetiredArmy
WORLDS MOST DANGEROUS JOBS: Fishing boats in the Bering Sea from Alaska. Nuke sub crewman on Soviet subs.

Don't forget US astronaut.

44 posted on 11/09/2008 6:13:47 AM PST by KampfgruppeZ
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

I’m guessing that it was Halon, not Freon. When Freon is heated to a high temperature (the cherry end of a cigarette is hot enough to do it), it breaks down into phosgene, which is a nerve gas. Not a good feature for a fire-suppression system.


45 posted on 11/09/2008 6:19:27 AM PST by Excuse_My_Bellicosity (Never argue with idiots. They'll pull you down to their level, then beat you with experience.)
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To: Eye of Unk

I hate it for them as well... but I’m also taking into consideration that their sabre rattling as of late is directed straight at the good ol’ US of A.

Guaranteed that any failures of the military of other countries is seen as a learning opportunity for our military for possible future use. It’s also an extreme possibility that the cause of the “poisoning” was not as advertised. We’ll never know.


46 posted on 11/09/2008 6:20:35 AM PST by Gordon Greene (www.fracturedrepublic.com - Me... I'm ignorant but I do know this; God is our only hope!)
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To: dools007
They are kicking our ass in delivering into orbit. Well, NASAs ass. I guess I'm saying that in man/material orbit delivery, NASA is way worse than the Russians. The Soyuz is the AK-47 of delivery. Reliable, buildable, knowable, cheap. All traits I don't associate with NASA.
47 posted on 11/09/2008 6:25:03 AM PST by Leisler (Obama is going to give us all Unicorns!)
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To: All

As a former sailor I pray for their souls...


48 posted on 11/09/2008 6:35:22 AM PST by Doofer
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

http://www.maritimesales.com/PI12.htm


49 posted on 11/09/2008 6:36:38 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (Nemo me impune lacessit.)
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To: backhoe
Halon and Freon compounds are NOT good for you on any terms. Oxygen displacement being the first in a long list.
50 posted on 11/09/2008 6:38:10 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (Nemo me impune lacessit.)
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