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A vision of hope, dashed by madness and death
Oakland Tribune ^ | 11/15/2008 | Angela Hill

Posted on 11/16/2008 4:27:46 AM PST by CE2949BB

OAKLAND — Convinced Jim Jones was God, Garrett Lambrev was the first person to join Peoples Temple in Ukiah in 1966 after the group moved from Indiana. Ten years later — two years before the Jonestown tragedy — he was part of a wave of defectors, shaken to the core by tales of torture and wanting nothing to do with a god who could sanction such things. He was reviled as a traitor and lived in fear for his life.

Yet as Lambrev reflects on the enigma of Peoples Temple, his thoughts settle not just on the horrors of the final days.

"The media images — so many of them dwell on the piles of bodies, the rotting human beings in the jungle of Guyana," said Lambrev, a librarian who is semiretired from the Oakland Public Library, looking every bit the part with his glasses, white hair and goatee, and surrounded by stacks of books in his Oakland home.

"Without trying to reduce the impact of (Jim Jones') degeneration, because he was indeed a classic dictator gone mad, there was still a lot of significance to Peoples Temple that history overlooks," he said. "It spoke of hope. Of connection. All these races and cultures living and working together, very successfully for the most part.

(Excerpt) Read more at insidebayarea.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: California; US: Indiana; US: Oregon
KEYWORDS: berkeley; concernedrelatives; cult; guyana; hope; jimjones; jones; jonestown; oakland; obamamessiah; obamatransitionfile; peoplestemple; sanfrancisco; sf; sfbayarea; temple; ukiah

1 posted on 11/16/2008 4:27:46 AM PST by CE2949BB
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To: CE2949BB

Yes he can....


2 posted on 11/16/2008 4:33:05 AM PST by drzz (I)
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To: CE2949BB
I hear Hitler made the trains run on time.

Once a fool, always a fool, I guess.

3 posted on 11/16/2008 4:44:51 AM PST by GOP_Party_Animal
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To: GOP_Party_Animal

THat’s Mussolini that made the trains run on time, not Hitler. But close enough.


4 posted on 11/16/2008 4:47:39 AM PST by Cripplehawk
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To: CE2949BB

Jim Jones had the backing of the Democrat party.


5 posted on 11/16/2008 4:47:58 AM PST by Mojave (http://www.americanbacklash.com/)
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To: CE2949BB

Lambrev still tries to apologize for that Communist. Once a cultist, always a cultist.


6 posted on 11/16/2008 4:49:59 AM PST by JoJo Gunn (Stupid people shouldn't breed.)
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To: Cripplehawk; GOP_Party_Animal
Claim: Italian Dictator Benito Mussolini made the trains run on time.

Status: False.

Snopes

7 posted on 11/16/2008 4:54:35 AM PST by Mojave (http://www.americanbacklash.com/)
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To: Cripplehawk; Mojave

Once again, 10 minutes on Free Republic teaches more than 10 hours of Free Public TV.


8 posted on 11/16/2008 5:01:45 AM PST by GOP_Party_Animal
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To: CE2949BB

Evidently the Left has noticed the similarities between Jones and Obama. Not to worry, selective blindness works wonders. (Besides, if you complain, you’re a racist.) Peace and happiness will be handed out along with your tax dollars, whether you like it or not...all over the world. Who cares that this is nuts, and a few millions will be thrown under the bus. Sit down and shut up. The Obama propaganda machine is in full swing.


9 posted on 11/16/2008 5:02:21 AM PST by hershey
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To: CE2949BB
I remember when the mass suicide hit the news and how we couldn't get enough info about the story. Last night I saw something was on TV about this and it made me wonder just how this would have been covered in these days of 24/7 News.

I could only imagine Shemp Smith and Geraldo picking through piles of bodies.

10 posted on 11/16/2008 5:05:00 AM PST by BallyBill (Serial Hit-N-Run poster)
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To: CE2949BB
"Not to say that Peoples Temple was in any sense a democracy," he said. "But the Temple was the most significant experiment and example of interracial living in the U.S. so far," he said. "This was a community based on a vision of hope. Of people who were like-minded, who wanted to live with each other for the benefit of the planet. What stays with me is that these were some of the best people I've ever known in my life. Extraordinary human beings."

Do these people live under rocks most their lives?

I live in all manner of a multi-racial society, and we all share the same vision of loving our families, providing for our loved ones, working hard at our jobs, obeying the laws, living out the Golden Rule with each other.

Um, this has been going on for over 4000 years.

Only the leftists find this shared vision to be "unacceptable. To leftists, "Access to the Divine" can only be arrived at via Marxist or Stalinist tyrant.

Truth time. People who join cults like Jimmie Jones? Are people who bore themselves.

G_d's grace, abundance, and excitement is all around us at all times, always has been. The days are simply not long enough to fulfill all the interests and wonders we each have inside us. People who join cults like Jimmie Jones are people who take every moment alive, for granted. And do not see beauty. And so they create a "conduit", usually in the human form, who does the work to create a vision for them.

Not only are such followers bored with themselves, they are lazy.

11 posted on 11/16/2008 5:10:36 AM PST by Alia
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To: CE2949BB
Questions about what happened still haunt Lambrev, however. In the years before and after Jonestown, there were some mysterious deaths, including the still-unsolved 1980 murders of Al and Jeannie Mills in Berkeley, who had started Concerned Relatives.

Concerned Relatives was a network of tremendously courageous people. And yes, the mysterious deaths of the Mills was shut down. Not even the pressies wondered aloud what had happened to them. We, in the SF Bay Area, paying attention, understood the message being sent by the puppet masters of the Bay Area. I think the Mills were Arkancided.

12 posted on 11/16/2008 5:15:01 AM PST by Alia
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To: JoJo Gunn
Somewhere there ought to be a goofy picture of Lambrev with a caption:
"I can haz Stockholm Syndrome?"

13 posted on 11/16/2008 5:25:12 AM PST by Responsibility2nd
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To: Responsibility2nd

14 posted on 11/16/2008 5:40:37 AM PST by JoJo Gunn (Stupid people shouldn't breed.)
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To: GOP_Party_Animal
I hear Hitler made the trains run on time.

That was Mussolini.

15 posted on 11/16/2008 5:45:11 AM PST by arthurus (Old Age beat itself with its own guile and lack of enthusiasm.)
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To: CE2949BB
It spoke of hope. Of connection. All these races and cultures living and working together, very successfully for the most part.

And then everybody ended up dead. But aside from that little flaw it was wonderful.

16 posted on 11/16/2008 5:47:12 AM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (Faith Manages)
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To: GOP_Party_Animal

Germans are big on precision. That’s why they make so many clocks there (Switzerland too).

And, yes you are right; the trains ran on time.


17 posted on 11/16/2008 5:53:05 AM PST by Paved Paradise
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To: BallyBill

At the time I was working for a man whose son-in-law was in the military or national guard or something back then and he had to go down and bring the bodies back in body bags. I will never forget my boss telling me how awful it was for his son-in-law. I will never forget this as long as I live.

Some things just stay with you.


18 posted on 11/16/2008 5:54:37 AM PST by Paved Paradise
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To: CE2949BB

Poor deluded man. It’s kind of hard for all races and cultures to live in peace when one of the political systems masquerading as a religion wants to convert or kill all others.


19 posted on 11/16/2008 6:35:11 AM PST by Freedom Dignity n Honor (There are permanent moral truths.)
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To: hershey

Who cares that this is nuts, and a few millions will be thrown under the bus. Sit down and shut up. The Obama propaganda machine is in full swing.’

I think it will be many millions if no one stops NObama.


20 posted on 11/16/2008 6:40:32 AM PST by ridesthemiles
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To: drzz

In the first sentence, the obvious analogy just screams out.


21 posted on 11/16/2008 6:48:27 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans.)
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To: CE2949BB

JIm Jones and other cult leaders are popular because people can rely on them to do the thinking that they can’t face doing themselves.

For some people, the real world with all it’s complexities is ‘too much’ for some people to deal with and when someone comes along and promises to take care of them and sort things out for them, they (people, followers) usually end up being completely controlled, usually to the point where they end up dead.

I saw two documentaries and in one it mentioned how Jones was going down mentally and he was ready to take them (followers) with him.

Followers usually follow them to death because they have invested their entire psych and self in that person that they willingly go with them.


22 posted on 11/16/2008 6:49:33 AM PST by Niuhuru (Fine, I'm A Racist and Proud Of It!)
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To: Freedom Dignity n Honor

Here’s a girl who quit the “cult.”

http://www.news8.net/news/stories/1108/568957.html


23 posted on 11/16/2008 6:53:05 AM PST by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: GOP_Party_Animal

No, that was Mussolini. Hitler was the one whos vas a badt man, shure, but at least he luft docs undt schildern.


24 posted on 11/16/2008 6:54:27 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans.)
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To: Paved Paradise
Germans are big on precision. That’s why they make so many clocks there (Switzerland too). And, yes you are right; the trains ran on time.

Certainly the ones that went to Auschwitz.

25 posted on 11/16/2008 6:55:52 AM PST by dfwgator (I hate Illinois Marxists)
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To: Mojave

Iwould not believe Snopes if they said water was wet.


26 posted on 11/16/2008 6:56:27 AM PST by sport
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To: Paved Paradise

I guess you are unfamilar with “das akademische Viertel”?


27 posted on 11/16/2008 7:04:15 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans.)
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To: CE2949BB

Would Zero have the same powers on people that old Jim had?

I dare say, he probably could.


28 posted on 11/16/2008 7:17:06 AM PST by TribalPrincess2U
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To: CE2949BB
As I have posted before, Jim Jones’ utopia was merely socialism in a snow-globe, a miniaturized 20th Century delusion.

Until it is broadly recognized that the only purpose of state power is its own aggrandizement, at whatever human cost, we are condemned to endless mass murders.

On the bright side, none of these tyrannies last forever. ;^)

29 posted on 11/16/2008 7:53:21 AM PST by headsonpikes (Genocide is the highest sacrament of socialism.)
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To: Responsibility2nd
I thought it was the "Helsinki Syndrome."

Guess I watched Die Hard once too often.

30 posted on 11/16/2008 7:56:22 AM PST by Larry Lucido (Free Brightside!)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

You are right but I don’t know why I am supposed to be familiar with it or why you are posting this to me.


31 posted on 11/16/2008 8:16:18 AM PST by Paved Paradise
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To: dfwgator

I am presently reading “Children of the Flames.” I wish our children were made to study the holocaust more in depth. I was taught very little and I believe children today know far more about Woodstock than they do of the holocaust.


32 posted on 11/16/2008 8:19:47 AM PST by Paved Paradise
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To: CE2949BB
Photobucket
33 posted on 11/16/2008 8:30:32 AM PST by sionnsar (Iran Azadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY)|http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com/|RCongressIn2Years)
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To: Niuhuru
I saw two documentaries and in one it mentioned how Jones was going down mentally and he was ready to take them (followers) with him.

It kind of reminds one of that beast Hitler in the last days in his bunker.

34 posted on 11/16/2008 8:59:35 AM PST by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
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To: Paved Paradise
I was taught very little and I believe children today know far more about Woodstock than they do of the holocaust.

The followers of totalitarianism want people to be ignorant so history can be repeated.

35 posted on 11/16/2008 9:01:47 AM PST by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
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To: Paved Paradise

Because it belies the German reputation for punctuality.


36 posted on 11/16/2008 9:05:32 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans.)
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To: Wilhelm Tell
It kind of reminds one of that beast Hitler in the last days in his bunker.

Reminds me of the studio cafeteria scene in "Blazing Saddles."

"Hey Joey, how's it going?" (to a fellow actor in a Hitler costume)
"They lose me right after the bunker scene."

37 posted on 11/16/2008 9:08:15 AM PST by dfwgator (I hate Illinois Marxists)
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To: Mojave

I know it’s false it just that slogan applied to Mussolini


38 posted on 11/16/2008 11:05:32 AM PST by Cripplehawk
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

Okay, so what does the academy teach and what dies viertel mean?


39 posted on 11/16/2008 11:31:52 AM PST by Paved Paradise
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To: BallyBill
I could only imagine Shemp Smith and Geraldo picking through piles of bodies.

Trying to find a way to blame Republicans.

40 posted on 11/16/2008 11:57:41 AM PST by Mojave (http://www.americanbacklash.com/)
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To: Paved Paradise

Veirtel mean quarter. In this case, a quarter hour. Basically, classes at German universities (and apparently Dutch and Scandanavian as well) start fifteen minutes after the time published in the schedule. There are various explanations, but the most popular is academic laxity.


41 posted on 11/16/2008 1:45:14 PM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

I never heard of that. I know when I was in Switzerland, things were on time. Italy was very on time as well (trains, boats, etc.) Middle eastern countries not so. Greeks, not so. The French - oy! On any given day, there could be a strike - it could last minutes, hours, days. Se la vie.


42 posted on 11/16/2008 2:46:32 PM PST by Paved Paradise
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To: GOP_Party_Animal

Hitler made the trains run on time to Auschwitz, Treblinka, Sobibior and Belzec.


43 posted on 11/17/2008 7:38:38 AM PST by HenpeckedCon (1/20/13 - Hussein's Last Day!)
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To: Wilhelm Tell

Yeah, in the documentary his son was telling about how Jones was screaming over the phone for his son to return.


44 posted on 11/19/2008 6:34:50 AM PST by Niuhuru (Fine, I'm A Racist and Proud Of It!)
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To: hershey

“Not to worry, selective blindness works wonders.”

Doesn’t it just?


45 posted on 11/19/2008 6:35:27 AM PST by Niuhuru (Fine, I'm A Racist and Proud Of It!)
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To: Paved Paradise
This is one of the very few videos that feature the Army clean-up of the bodies at Jonestown.

Watch toward the end of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rROWX3aQwuY&NR=1

46 posted on 11/22/2008 6:50:02 PM PST by Prole (Please pray for the families of Chris and Channon. May God always watch over them.)
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