Posted on 11/16/2008 6:37:46 AM PST by LA Woman3
Never thought our Constitution and guiding principles were so fragile.
I’m admitted to the bar (not McDuffy’s either) and I always suspected it was fragile, and depended on the good faith of the citizens, the courts and the legislatures to continue to make it work.
that good faith is very questionable right now- especially beginning in the executive branch, starting on January 20, 2009.
What do you mean?
Nugent Ping-a-ling!
O said our Constitution was “flawed”. It seems obvious he meant the presidential eligibility requirements, i.e., BC, and a quick look at his gun voting record says the 2nd Amendment should be stricken.
Actually, the Founding Fathers extended the vote only to male property owners.
Subsequent modifications to that was a mistake.
I gotcha, I had forgotten about that. Time will tell what the “0” miester has in store for us plebes.
Some sources I've found somewhat credible in the past...
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2007/07/the_hypocritica.html
http://www.answers.com/topic/ted-nugent< Scroll down to the category "military".
Now you are quibbling about the accuracy of the sources you are using. Either a source is credible or it's not. Ted admits that he got a student deferment, and he has said he regrets having done so. He said he just didn't realize the necessity of military service when he was younger, and that is one of his motivations for being so pro-military now and why he supports our troops by going and entertaining them now.
Has Ted made mistakes in his past? Absolutely. Have I? Absolutely, and, speaking only for myself, the errors in judgment I made in my past have been the impetus for the changes I have made in my own life (hopefully ones for the better), and I am willing to give a man who stands with our men and women today the benefit of the doubt re his past errors because I feel he has made positive changes in his life also.
One last thing, THANK YOU for your service to our country. From your home page, I gather you are a Vietnam Vet. If so, know that there are some of us who have always believed in our VietVets and that they were used and abused by the country they served so gallantly.
Also - I never vouch for anything or anyone unless I can personally do so from my own knowledge.. Hardly quibbling - just being honest.
Of course - given that I've heard the scuttlebutt about Nugent for years, I'd be more prone to believe the worse about him than most... Interesting too, that with all the "talk" there doesn't seem to be a very prominent or public attempt by Nugent to kill the story.
By whatever means Nugent secured his "deferment", it appears by all the information available that is was secured by lies or a scam or possibly both...
Lots of folks pulled the same deal... I can deal with that, and still respect much of what Nugent has done since then..
However - even if ONLY the misbegotten student deferment was used to continue "rocking and rolling" while someone else bore his responsibility - it gives me the cold creeps to see or hear the fellow mouth and dress the role of macho man....
Could perhaps one of my beloved Marine brothers still be alive to share old age with me - if Nugent had stood up and fulfilled his own responsibilities in an honorable fashion?
In my mind, Nugent is one of the most reprehensible "chicken hawks" out there.... He should simple shut the hell up about his bravado.. The only warm blooded creatures Nugent has shot at or killed were four legged - and couldn't shoot back. They were unarmed.
I don't know Ted personally, so I have to assess him through second hand accounts from others and from his own personal writings. To me, he seems like someone who has made errors in his past and is now trying to make the best of his present by doing what he considers the correct course of action now. Like all of us, he can't undo his past mistakes, but he can try to make amends for those errors by doing better in the now. His recent writings mostly put him on my side in this cultural war we are engaged in, so I try not to judge him too harshly for his error ridden history. You may be right when you speculate that had he not gotten a deferment and had entered the service, then one of your friends might still be alive to help celebrate your old age, but then again maybe not. Ted might have gone in, and died instead of your friend, but that friend might have then come home and been killed in a car wreck or become another John Kerry. Speculation about alternative choices always have at least two sides. That is why I don't like to speculate after the fact. It just does not do anyone any good.
Ted has a very outrageous personality, and I can understand why you have some antipathy for him. I just hope that you don't have that same antipathy for all of us in that same age range who didn't serve. And to be totally honest here, many of us who drew high numbers in the lottery mentioned above felt we had been blessed and given a new lease on life, myself included. Looking back, I feel some shame for having felt that way, but when you are young and your life is in front of you, sometimes abstract concepts like honor and integrity and service to others aren't the force in your life that they will become later on. In a way, I envy those who were drafted during that time because they learned those abstracts a lot sooner than the rest of us. Their innocence died much sooner so that ours could be extended, and for that, I again say thank you.
First - the term chickenhawk should only be applied to those who go to illegal or suspect lengths to avoid duty when called upon and then later become hawks for going to war or enlarging the war.
So that is a designation that doesn’t apply in your case..
You were never called upon.. Be grateful, not regretful.
Secondly - I too was an avid hunter and even more, loved to fish.
That all stopped when I came home.. Life became too precious to destroy for sport or recreation.
But I don’t begrudge folks who do... It’s my quirk, not theirs. I still own and love guns. One of my favorite pastimes is to shoot the hell out of paper, tin cans and rotten oranges with my grandchildren.
And, you’re right about the difference between a private person who remains so, and a public celebrity presenting themselves as a Gung Ho, ass kicking, gun waving, Rambo VII HMFIC — compared to the reality of what they were when their Nation called upon them to be a man - and they weren’t.
Nugent always struck me as the worst kind of REMF.
If I’m wrong about the man - I’ll feel terrible. But for now - I choose to dislike him for what I believe to be true about him. Frankly, I’m now too damned old to really care what is true or false -— I am now a prisoner of my emotions and automatic reflexes and find that I am ruled by them.
Nugent could be doing all the good things and mouthing all the good positions in support of the Nation, our Military and conservative ideals without all the false bravado which he has never demonstrated in real life — and I could still respect him.. As it is, I most certainly don’t.
Do I expect folks to have been always perfect - to respect them? Of course not. Have I done things I’m not proud of? Of course I have. But I am not a public figure and I don’t presume to behave in public as a person I am not.
I don’t really believe that those I lost would have been spared if any of the “men” had not run to Canada or had daddy pull strings for a deferment or could afford to be in college or stoop to the measures that Nugent himself described to the press. (And then later said he lied about it) Hell, I guess some folks even lie to their diary.
It’s just that I KNOW the caliber and measure of some of the men whose lives were cut short - and they were and still are better men than the assholes who ran from duty and most especially Nugent. It strikes me as incredibly cruel and unfair that some severely flawed men live long and prosperous lives, while the finest among us were cut down in their youth.
Right or wrong - Nugent has become my shit magnet.
Right or wrong - Nugent is a hero to many, I’m not among them.
Everyone has to use their own judgment in dealing with life. That judgment is formed by each persons unique experiences. Your experiences have formed you just as mine have formed me. Neither is right nor wrong for anyone else, just different. Your judgment has its own validity and is certainly right for you. It is interesting to gain insights into another’s thought processes. This has been a very intriguing exchange and I think I now understand your viewpoint much better. You take care now, and have some fun with your grandkids shooting up some milk jugs and tin cans.
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