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To: NYer
Symbolic of the way some want to strike back at the church for holding the line and indicative of deep-seated hatred.

I don't view abortion on a par with women priests, but am not particularly in favor of the latter.

The Vatican excommunicated that priest who ordained a woman right quick and publicly. Why they can't do the same for abortion pols I don't understand. I suppose the argument could be mad that illegitimately-ordained priests can be fatal to souls for invalid sacraments, but abortion almost seems worse, fatal to both body and souls, but I'm not talking about the aborted baby's soul but the ones who do it or are enablers.

Also by making abortion legal, it causes more sin, not just the mother, but the doctor and other people involved in it, but that's from a religious viewpoint. In the secular world we inhabit today, my argument would be considered ridiculous, irrelevant and separation between church and state. To those I would say we do not have separation of church and state for other sins such as murder, do we?

6 posted on 11/20/2008 3:51:19 PM PST by Aliska
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To: Aliska
Also by making abortion legal, it causes more sin, not just the mother, but the doctor and other people involved in it, but that's from a religious viewpoint.

No ... this is not a religious viewpoint. For every act, there is a ripple effect. In the case of abortion, the act not only impacts the woman, it also effects the doctor, nurse, receptionist, the driver, the biological father, both families and, ultimately, us. For who know what gifts that child might have brought to this world that will never be known. The loss of that child also impacts the tax base and your future social security benefits.

19 posted on 11/20/2008 4:11:05 PM PST by NYer ("Run from places of sin as from a plague." - St. John Climacus)
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To: Aliska
The Vatican excommunicated that priest who ordained a woman right quick and publicly.

The sacrament of Holy Orders (or ordination) is not within the powers of a priest (only a Bishop). So, regardless of the "discipline involved" (Holy Orders is for males only is the current discipline but will stay that way, I assure you), the priest administered an invalid sacrament and caused grave scandal and confusion. As he exceeded his authority, he was excommunicated juridically and publicly according to Canon Law. He will probably also lose his faculties as a priest and be laicized.

Why they can't do the same for abortion pols I don't understand.

Contrary to your views gathered from movies on "the Inquisition," Catholics DO have rights under Canon Law. Although Canon 915 seems to state that "those who cause grave scandal can be denied Communion," any further public process requires a judicial process or another Canon and none exists without a trial. Yes, that's right...a trial. It is not like a civil trial, but it is a trial and evidence must be introduced and weighed and the accused has an "advocate." That is why abortion pols don't get excommunicated publically at the drop of a hat.

However, you confuse, de jure excommunication--excommunication which occurs by the very virtue of the act itself--with public excommunication. Those who DO cause grave scandal (by such deeds as supporting abortion through active means such as a politician or an abortion doctor), experience "latae sententiae" de jure excommunication (meaning they are excommunicated automatically and under the pain of mortal sin. So, while you don't SEE IT, it don't mean it ain't so. To go further than that would require a trial meaning a drawing up of a bill of particulars and a presentation of evidence sent to Rome.

Clear, Aliska?

30 posted on 11/20/2008 4:51:16 PM PST by Frank Sheed (Fr. V. R. Capodanno, Lt, USN, Catholic Chaplain. 3rd/5th, 1st Marine Div., FMF. MOH, posthumously.)
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