Posted on 12/05/2008 5:18:15 PM PST by Aliska
However, what the Left side is completely ignoring is that
(1) Releasing a true birth certificate would end the problem.
(2)the COLB on BHO's website was
..... (a)suspicious and (b) NOT a Birth certificate
(3)All the Hawaiian bureaucracy and courts have said, is that there is a birth certificate. No one has said what's on it.
(4) The whole Indonesian adventure, traveling while an adult on a foreign passport, etc. ad nauseam.
Me? I think the Hawaiian Birth certificate will show that he was born in Kenya. I also happen to think that as the illegitimate son of a illegally married American, he will be shown to be a citizen at birth, regardless of where it happened. Who's a citizen, and who ain't, isn't covered very well in the Constitution, except tangentially in the 14th Amendment. "Natural born," well, that's another story.
SCOTUS? Who the heck can gfigure out what they are going to do? I have heard a Beltway rumor that they are going to attempt to "freeze" the Electoral College while they suss this out. But I must admit my learned source was unable to tell me what "freeze," actually meant.
And when all of this foo-faraw We do live in interesting times.
I quoted your entire paragaph, but the key phrase is this: “A head of state who is seen as illegitimate by a large sector of his people “
Are you arguing that a significantly large segment of the Dems voters didn’t think that was true all through his first four years?
Great work, Cipher.
I have to think that any smart attorneys would be reading at the FR brain trust. This place is like a thousand computers daisy chained together, applying the aggregate power of their processors to the same problem.
What’s puzzling about this situation, is that Obama’s camp is organized, funded and fighting this, while there’s no such entity on our side. You’d think that entity would be the McCain camp, or the RNC, but they’re disengaged from the fight, and have conceded to the victor.
That leaves individual citizens to fight this behemoth alone.
It’s no wonder that we haven’t seen attorneys for our side making these requests from the state of Hawaii. There’s no team in place to do this.
It’s as though our team left the field when the game went into overtime, and a few individual fans have rushed onto the turf to try and stop the opposing team from scoring the game winning touchdown.
Because I was specifically responding to issues that you are wrong about in your post.
For example:
It's too late. The cat's out of the bag already. His credentials will have to be checked, now that we're aware of what's happened.
They will? I'll wager they will not HAVE to be checked. They SHOULD be checked, but they won't.
Why spend upwards of a million dollars fighting the release of a $10 document?
Because he has more money than he know what to do with. $10,000,000 is like $10 in his world.
PLUS, and this is really why he's doing it; This is an opportunity to shove his thumb in the eyes of every one who opposes him.
You saw him give Hillary the finger, and you saw him give McCain the finger. That's just a tiny insight into what kind of guy this overgrown teenager is.
As much as I'd like to see this guy booted out, it isn't going to happen. It's a fools errand to try with the birth certificate.
After inaguration there is going to be a flurry of activity out of the White House that will be so maddening to those who love America that his birth certificate will seem like a Sunday School prize for good behavior.
Unspent campaign funds which remain after a the election are LEGALLY HIS! Anyone care to guess just how much that is? Hint: John Kerry made $17 Million on his failed campaign. Gore's instant mega-wealth is probably a result of the same mechanism. Ralph Nader has been running this scam for years. Even Pat Buchanan is known to have done rather well. The Clintons? They are now worth many hundreds of millions ... somehow.
If you feel that Obama is simply “thumbing his nose” at his detractors, or is “doing it because he can”, then that is all the more reason to dig harder.
No person who attains the office of President does so alone. The person of the President is simply the spear tip of a nationwide political party, of which a powerful group of executives reside just near the top.
You don’t get to “thumb your nose” at your opponents, and promulgate a controversy of global proportions, just because you’re the titular head of the party. You’ve got a board of directors that will check the worst of your human failings in an instant. You don’t get to behave like a punk teenager, just because you feel like it.
No incoming President and his staff are going to allow themselves to be tarnished with even the suspicion of illegitimacy, if they can so easily prevent it. This isn’t high school politics. Wars and insurrections are born of such things. Millions have died for such things. This isn’t a public relations game that can easily be swept under the rug by calling the opposition “kooks”. Cooler and keener minds are watching.
Obama and his incoming administration are downplaying, and even appearing to ignore what I can assure you, is the top order of business behind the scenes. They haven’t spent upwards of a million dollars, “because he has more money than he know what to do with.” Not with something so large and potentially catastrophic hanging over their heads.
The fact is, they cannot provide the proof of Obama’s constitutional qualification to hold office, but it’s too late to turn back now. They’re all in with the deception. Obama’s camp and the DNC would have long ago ended this, if they had any ability to do so.
We will have to see whether or not the Constitution is respected in this matter. If not, then his credentials won't be checked, and we will have ceased to be a nation of laws.
If Obama is not compelled to comply with this most basic provision of the Constitution, then no man should consider that he should be compelled to comply with any "law". They will all be invalidated by Obama's singular transgression.
Emphasis mine
Have you seen the slightest sign of apology for giving Hillary or McCain the finger in a very public way? No? Why not?
Based on what we've seen thus far, I think he can get away with all the things you listed and more.
Stop making such outlandish assertions. They just make you look the fool.
My observation at the time, was that there was a very loud and vocal segment of Democrats who continued to promote this myth, even though Bush won the contest fair and square, through receiving more electoral votes than Gore.
If you recall, all of the noise wasn't about Bush's alleged "illegitimacy". Most of the noise was about Bush himself. The left simply loathed the man.
In the Bush case, the matter was settled legally, and with full transparency before he ever set foot in the White House. The matter wasn't dragged out by Bush himself, as Barry is doing. And, he IS doing it himself, by refusing to relinquish his original birth certificate. AND, this has now been going on for six whole months! It started well before election day.
In Bush's case, you could posit that he was "illegitimate" because some questioned whether he actually won a very close contest. However, the matter was settled by the courts and the Electoral College in accordance with our laws and the Constitution.
Fair, or unfair, the contest had to be decided for someone. In an election as close as that one was, there are going to be some people who will always feel that their guy really won. It's human nature.
This time is very different. The contest wasn't close. It was a decisive victory for one of the opponents. However, it's being questioned whether the victor even had the right to be in the contest in the first place.
There is enough circumstantial evidence to suggest that he is not qualified, to warrant the question. What's suspicious, and what is driving this entire controversy, is that he refuses to answer the question by presenting the simple and indisputable proof of his eligibility.
Think of this in terms of a sporting contest, where one team beats the other decisively. During the game, and up to the final buzzer, fans are yelling from the bleachers that the opposing team's quarterback is ineligible to play. The fans have seen reports in the news that indicate there may be some issue with his eligibility, so they want to know that everything is on the up and up.
All the QB has to do, is tell his coach to show the opposing coach a piece of paper that documents his eligibility, but he refuses to do so, and keeps right on playing. His team goes on to win the game by a wide margin.
Now, do you think the fans are just going to walk out of the stadium in peace, and simply accept their loss without protest, or are they going to continue to demand that the winning team show them proof of fair play?
What Obama did was asinine, to be sure, but that's a far cry from trying to assume the office of President illegally. He's challenging the very foundations of the Republic. I contend that this isn't arrogance or hubris on his part. It's criminal. To consider it anything else if foolish.
Based on what we've seen thus far, I think he can get away with all the things you listed and more.
Only if good men stand by and do nothing.
Stop making such outlandish assertions. They just make you look the fool.
Heh... yeah, me and most everyone else on this board.
I leave you to your naysaying now. I've given you what I feel are very compelling arguments for Obama's guilt in this matter. If you reject them, so be it. That's your choice.
I don't see any evidence that he lied. A reference to him by another name on an unofficial indonesian school report doesn't prove he ever went by another name. The most likely explanation is that indonesian school officials mistakenly assumed he had the same last name as his adopted father.
FYI, this happened to a friend of mine in a private elementary school I attended. He had a different last name from his step father (his father was dead and his mother remarried), but teachers and administrators would sometimes refer to him by his step father's last name.
It is a trivial difference, since the COLB says he was born in Honolulu.
The photos on the factcheck website are strong evidence that the certificate is original. And whether Factcheck is funded by Annenberg makes no difference. Photos are photos.
How in the world could forgery experts have examined it and verified its authenticity without actually having seen it?
That is not the point. He was Barry Soetoro of Indonesia.
There's no proof he ever legally changed his name to that. The school document that AP cited merely proves that some school administrator at one point thought that was his last name, and was likely mistaken. Friends of mine who were adopted have had this problem.
He was an Indonesian citizen.
Really? Where is the proof of that?
You are interpreting my posts as nay saying.
For the record, here’s what I believe:
I believe that BHO is NOT an American citizen.
I believe BHO is not Constitutionally qualified to be President based on his citizenship status.
I believe that pursuing this matter is a brave and noble cause.
I believe that those who pursue this matter are, in fact, brave and noble.
Then why, why do they all have to resort to kook tactics, as you have done?
There are all sorts of kook tactics employed, yours, on this thread, is making crazy and unsupportable assertions. Even the most cursory reading raises big red flags before the first sentence is completed, and are so easily debunked that even a sixth grader (at least a home schooled sixth grader) could do that between classes. The truth is more than sufficient, why use provable lies?
This is very different than using dislikable tactics. I’ve often compared Ann Coulters tactics to those of the Dirty Dozen of WWII fame. The tactics of the ‘BHO isn’t a citizen’ crowd is more like those of the “One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest”.
No one wants to be associated with that, which is why Rush, Malkin, Hannity, and any other of the national talk show hosts give this only passing mention.
They would not have his birth certificate on file if he weren't born in Hawaii. Also, officials later clarified their remarks and explicitly affirmed he was born in Hawaii:
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html
NO! Find and read the correct full quote. They do NOT say he was born in Hawaii.
But, many have told you that before and that doesn’t fit your agenda, does it?
Bottom line, if the thing posted on the Obama website does not match the original in any way, it is forged as Polarik found. That is grounds enough to oust the guy.
Sure, and he's an idiot.
And Joseph Farrah isn't buying it either.
I guess he doesn't believe his own experts. Shrug.
And Polarik is a FReeper.
So?
WND never says that they have a hard copy.
How can a forgery expert examine a document and declare it authentic without looking at the hard copy?
He could have been born anywhere and gotten a Certificate of Live Birth because his mother was in Hawaii a year.
Yes, but then it wouldn't have listed Honolulu as his place of birth.
Furthermore, the Hawaii Dept. of public health has confirmed he was born in Hawaii.
Yes, I know, in the original statement, they merely said they have Obama's original birth certificate on file. Since states generally only have the original birth certificates of babies born in the state, the meaning of that should be obvious to all but the tinfoil hat crowd. Nevertheless, a department spokesman later clarified that Obama was in fact born in Hawaii:
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html
Another really funny thing is the that Indonesian private school registration you keep jumping all over also lists Honolulu as Obama's birthplace.
Face it, you're grasping at straws.
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