Shelby warns of filibuster of auto bailout

Politico ^ | 12/7/08 1:19 PM EST | JOHN BRESNAHAN

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

With job losses mounting and Detroit’s Big Three automakers facing a battle on Capitol Hill over emergency federal aid, President-elect Barack Obama on Sunday predicted more hard times for the U.S. economy before it starts to turn around, and Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Ala.) threatened a potential filibuster of any attempt to bail out the automakers.

”This is a big problem. It’s gonna get worse,” Obama warned on NBC’s “Meet the Press.”

“Things are going to get worse before they get better,” he added.

Obama’s comments came on a busy Sunday morning that saw Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice making stops on three talk shows to talk about the fallout from the Mumbai terrorist attacks, and lawmakers clashed over whether a $15 billion “bridge loan” to American automakers should be approved.

Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.), a staunch ally of the U.S. carmakers, and Shelby, who has emerged as the leading opponent of any aid package for the Big Three, sparred over the whether the American government should rescue U.S. automakers during an appearance on “Fox News Sunday.”

Levin said he was “confident” that Congress would consider a bailout bill for the auto industry, but stopped short of predicting whether it would pass. Democratic leaders in the House and Senate are considering a $15 billion “bridge loan” to help out the automakers.

"I think they're very close to a deal, I think there will be a deal and that will happen in 24 hours," Levin told host Chris Wallace. “Obviously, that's a much more complicated question of whether the votes are there. What I'm confident of is that a bill will be introduced."

[Spktyr]

My buddy has one of those. 350/350 with a non-LSD rear, mostly restored to factors specs.

The only thing it does well is go in a straight line. The rest of the car is badly designed, poorly assembled, and what moron thought that handling was adequate back in 1969? Even for a truck?

[Spktyr]

Yeah... remind me to not let you near any of the toys I play with.

Or for that matter, anything made after 1970.

Seriously, what’s so hard about plugging in a scanner and reading the information there? It’s a lot easier than figuring out why your Edelbrock 1405 suddenly started going super-rich for no apparent reason.

And on some cars, the car will actually display the problem, in ENGLISH, on a dashboard display if you ask it.

[Spktyr]

Also, you do realize that most of these “old tech” 350s don’t make more than 300 horsepower, while that’s where most of the new-tech engines *start*.

Of course, you *did* buy domestic, so I suppose you have a reason to think that “all new cars are too hard to fix and are crap.” They’re not, really.

[roamer_1]

My buddy has one of those. 350/350 with a non-LSD rear, mostly restored to factors specs.

Well there's yer problem, right there.

[caver]

You must be a UAW member. YOu can talk all you want but I won’t buy a car from any company that gets a bailout.

[Spktyr]

Yeah, the factory specs are crap... but from what I've seen, you can't really improve the awful dash, the terrible ergonomics, etc., without throwing cubic dollars at it. I've spent quite a bit of time with him - the last project was fitting a custom plate in place of the awful sliding scale instruments, so we could fit proper gauges. What moron thought the sliding scale speedometer was a good idea?

[caver]

“There was nothing I could do with it- “check engine” was on and would not let the motor start. It took me 2 days to hike out, another day for a buddy and me to go get the thing (he only charged me 1/2 day for the wrecker), and then I got whacked $675 to replace a $12 crank sensor (or some such).”

Wow, what a story! You must have been a zillion miles back in the woods.

[Spktyr]

Yeah... though if he was smart, he would have carried a new-fangled invention called a “radio” with which he could have contacted others to come assist him. :P

[roamer_1]

Seriously, what’s so hard about plugging in a scanner and reading the information there? It’s a lot easier than figuring out why your Edelbrock 1405 suddenly started going super-rich for no apparent reason.

What's so hard about being a mechanic and working without the meters?

The problem occurs when you are broke down on the road- Where I live, especially with a pickup, that can be 50 miles from nowhere real easy, with no cellphone, and probably no CB (mountains are like that). The more complicated the system is, the less likely one is to have the part onboard, not to mention having the tools and whatnot available to complete the repairs. Pre '85, converted to HEI ignition is a pretty simple system. Barring a catastrophic failure, onboard parts are negligible, and I can tune it by ear just about as good as a meter can do.

[roamer_1]

Who looks at the speedometer?

[Spktyr]

Okay, tell me how you diagnose a HEI module failure without a meter, by the side of the road.

Pssst - being a mechanic means knowing what tools to carry. A pocket scanner and a multimeter is a must - the multimeter is essential even on non-computer cars.

[Spktyr]

True, it usually is broken on domestic cars of that age anyway.

[RochesterFan]

What I cannot understand if the wish of so many for the death of an industry that has had an enormous impact on our country.

You need to read a bit more and do the math. With average labor costs of about $70/hr the cars from the cannot compete on price or quality with cars assembled by American workers from Toyota or Honda with $40/hr average labor costs. A bailout for the Big Three is forcibly taking money from taxpayers who don't get such lavish benefits and pouring it down the toilet. Most Americans don't just say "no", we say "Hell No!"

The Democrats have to repay all those campaign contributions though. What I would support is loans to the Big Three guaranteed from the Senate, Congressional, and Executive branch pension funds. Give Nancy, Harry, Barney, Chris, George, and Barry some real skin in the game. They fail, you lose first...

[roamer_1]

Also, you do realize that most of these “old tech” 350s don’t make more than 300 horsepower, while that’s where most of the new-tech engines *start*.

I've never had any trouble putting tuners to bed. Hopping lights, quarter-mile, or whiskey runs, and all I've ever run is Old Skool. Last I saw, the top drifter was an old Camaro running a porker. They turn fine, at least my last one did. You can after market a lot of performance into the old stuff just fine.

And where did you hear that an old skool 350 won't put out more than 300 ponies?

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

There's no way I will go back to something I can't fix right here out of my garage.

Same here... I had a '92 Eddie Bauer Explorer that ran really well, was actually easy to work on, and I got 500k miles out of it without any major problems, although the body and interior was a rattlebox and the factory paint job was S-H-I- you know wha-T...

After several friend recommendations on the new models, I balked and got a clean, old '69 pick-up, sold the problem laden V-8 LX Mustang rattlebox (GTs were just plain ugly accessorized plastic) and went back to the later '80's BMW M3 and M5.

Finding QUALITY parts is extremely tough and the parts distribution folks also deserve to fail because they purposely refuse to carry QUALITY replacement parts for a lot of things and they don't have knowledgeable staff.

If I see something that says "Made in China" or "Made in Mexico," I just hand it back and go somewhere else (like the internet).

[roamer_1]

Okay, tell me how you diagnose a HEI module failure without a meter, by the side of the road.

stick your known good spare in and see if it works.

Pssst - being a mechanic means knowing what tools to carry. A pocket scanner and a multimeter is a must - the multimeter is essential even on non-computer cars.

Psst! Did you know that battery operated gizmos don't work below freezing very well? And did you know they don't work at all at -10 to -40 degrees?

[Spktyr]

You’re carrying a spare module? Okay, it still doesn’t work. What now?

Either way, without a meter, you’re still walking out.

And, strangely enough, you can get a multimeter that runs off your car battery. If your car battery isn’t working, you’re screwed anyway.

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

Who looks at the speedometer?

I usually only look when I see the flashing blue behind me, IF they have managed to catch up.

[Spktyr]

Where did I hear it?

I didn't hear it. I see it, at the dyno days I attend. Most old school 350s won't turn over 300 on the dyno. The best I've seen for a pre-LS1 street-legal normally-aspirated carbed 350, so far, was 405, and that was a loping monstrosity that the guy could barely keep running at a stoplight.

The sad part is when the guy pulls up claiming that his car makes "five hunnert horsepower" and the dyno tells him that he is *sadly* mistaken.

I wouldn't expect you to know what this is... but at the time of the pic, it made 1100 horsepower on the dyno and was perfectly docile around town. Now it makes 1300.

[Spktyr]

Oh, and no, that isn’t my car. It’s just an example from a dyno day. :D