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General Gordon does a Churchill (Winston's enraged grandson: 'you aren't fit to lick his boots')
The Daily Mail (U.K.) ^ | December 15, 2008 | Glen Owen

Posted on 12/14/2008 7:47:40 AM PST by Stoat

(edit)

Downing Street aides claimed that no British Prime Minister had been as close to a major front line since Winston Churchill in the Second World War.

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(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; britain; brown; churchill; england; gordonbrown; greatbritain; nicholassoames; uk; unitedkingdom; waronterror; winstonchurchill
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My apologies for the severe editing of this article....this was done in order to remain in compliance with Free Republic posting rules pertaining to the Daily Mail.  Please click on the main article link to read the full story, which adds essential context and also includes a small section on the wartime highlights of  Sir Winston Churchill....quite worthwhile, in my view.

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As usual, some of the best parts of the article are from the Daily Mail readers.  Here is a small sample of their comments:


1 posted on 12/14/2008 7:47:41 AM PST by Stoat
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To: manc; Mercia; agere_contra; Winniesboy
Britannia
2 posted on 12/14/2008 7:48:39 AM PST by Stoat (Palin / Coulter 2012: A Strong America Through Unapologetic Conservatism)
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To: All
More about Nicholas Soames here:

Nicholas Soames MP

(Official site)

Nicholas Soames - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nicholas Soames MP

3 posted on 12/14/2008 7:54:05 AM PST by Stoat (Palin / Coulter 2012: A Strong America Through Unapologetic Conservatism)
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To: Stoat

To compare this visit by any measure to any effort in the massive effort of WWII is ludicrous beyond measure. Afghanistan is a minor policing effort with not grounds for comparison to WWII. The corruption of what passes as journalism continues its downward spiral to the gates of hades.


4 posted on 12/14/2008 8:03:57 AM PST by Neoliberalnot ((Hallmarks of Liberalism: Ingratitude and Envy))
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To: Stoat
Churchill's reflection on the Muslims at the turn of the century:

"Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step". Sir Winston Churchill circa 1899. THE great man who saved Western Civilisation.

5 posted on 12/14/2008 8:07:19 AM PST by Daffynition ("Beauty is in the sty of the beholder." ~ Joe 6-pack)
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To: Neoliberalnot

And to compare a lightweight like Gordon Brown to Sir Winston Churchill is ludicrous as well. Will 0bama’s aides be comparing Barry to General Patton when he visits the troops?


6 posted on 12/14/2008 8:08:39 AM PST by Stoat (Palin / Coulter 2012: A Strong America Through Unapologetic Conservatism)
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To: Stoat

“Not one member of parliamnet has served in the armed forces, what does that tell you?”

Not true. Shows the calibre of the average Daily Mail reader tbh, wilfully ignorant and making stuff up in his own mind so that he can rant and rave about it to no-one in particular...


7 posted on 12/14/2008 8:08:42 AM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: Stoat

“Will 0bama’s aides be comparing Barry to General Patton when he visits the troops?”

Probably not, Patton would have made a poor politician and he wasn’t really statesman material, which I’m sure Obama fancies himself as....


8 posted on 12/14/2008 8:11:17 AM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan
Shows the calibre of the average Daily Mail reader

I happen to be an "average Daily Mail reader".

If you have a factual and substantive argument to make then please make it, if you can, without insulting me.

9 posted on 12/14/2008 8:12:47 AM PST by Stoat (Palin / Coulter 2012: A Strong America Through Unapologetic Conservatism)
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To: Stoat

Never considered moving to a grown-up newspaper like the Telegraph or the Times? I know they have more and bigger words and less pictures, but they are less prone to conjuring up emotive stories about paedos, asylum-seekers and working mothers that turn out to be mostly BS. Still, at least you’re not a Sun reader. There is hope for you yet....


10 posted on 12/14/2008 8:23:41 AM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: Stoat
". Will 0bama’s aides be comparing Barry to General Patton when he visits the troops?"


Patton would have slapped Obama silly.
11 posted on 12/14/2008 8:25:55 AM PST by Emperor Palpatine ("I love democracy. I love Free Republic")
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan
I too am curious about the current members of Parliament that served in the military. Please inform us of them.
12 posted on 12/14/2008 8:33:42 AM PST by marktwain
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan
Never considered moving to a grown-up newspaper like the Telegraph or the Times? I know they have more and bigger words and less pictures, but they are less prone to conjuring up emotive stories about paedos, asylum-seekers and working mothers that turn out to be mostly BS. Still, at least you’re not a Sun reader. There is hope for you yet....

Actually, I read them all including The Sun and many more, and I weigh them all according to the merits and quality of the information they present. 

And I don't go around insulting people I don't know.  Your desire to broadbrush the intellectual level of others based upon their wide-ranging search for knowledge and truth is not something that most FReepers will respect.  If the fact that I read a wider range of news sources than you do casts me as 'hopeless' in your eyes, then so be it.

13 posted on 12/14/2008 8:36:44 AM PST by Stoat (Palin / Coulter 2012: A Strong America Through Unapologetic Conservatism)
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To: Stoat
Tory MP Nicholas Soames might appreciate my tagline.

.

14 posted on 12/14/2008 8:37:38 AM PST by Seaplaner (Never give in. Never give in. Never...except to convictions of honour and good sense. W. Churchill)
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To: Stoat

Sometime I love opinion of UK Daily mail readers LOLOLOLOL!


15 posted on 12/14/2008 8:41:53 AM PST by SevenofNine ("We are Freepers, all your media belong to us, resistence is futile")
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To: Seaplaner
Tory MP Nicholas Soames might appreciate my tagline.

I'm sure that he would!  He's probably a 'stealth FReeper'  :-)

16 posted on 12/14/2008 8:43:04 AM PST by Stoat (Palin / Coulter 2012: A Strong America Through Unapologetic Conservatism)
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To: marktwain

There are none in the current government that I know of, but that doesn’t suprise me with Nu-Labour. Off the top of my head, David Davis, the former Shadow Home Secratary used to be in the SAS, Dr Andrew Murrison is an actual reservist who served some time in Iraq as a Royal Navy Surgeon as a sitting MP, Patrick Mercer MP, is probably the most outspoken MP on military affairs was also a shadow cabinet member until he made a controversial remark about anti-black racism in the army being no worse than having red hair and being called ‘ginger’. And finally, Iain Duncan-Smith, former leader of the Conservative Party was a Guards Officer.
All Tories, but these are just the ones I know about, there are probably quite a few more. Most of the Labour ex-servicemen are likely to be older backbanchers of an ‘Old Labour’ bent though, certainly not in government...


17 posted on 12/14/2008 8:44:42 AM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: SevenofNine
Sometime I love opinion of UK Daily mail readers LOLOLOLOL!

The Mail moderates its user comments HEAVILY, but sometimes a few good ones sneak through  :-)

18 posted on 12/14/2008 8:45:01 AM PST by Stoat (Palin / Coulter 2012: A Strong America Through Unapologetic Conservatism)
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To: Stoat
Why would the 0bamunist bother to visit the troops?? It might put him in harm's way and everybody knows that the ‘intellectual elitist’ Socialists don't ever do that. But then sometimes they claim they were in harm's way, a la Hillary!.
19 posted on 12/14/2008 8:50:46 AM PST by originalbuckeye
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To: originalbuckeye
Why would the 0bamunist bother to visit the troops?? It might put him in harm's way and everybody knows that the ‘intellectual elitist’ Socialists don't ever do that. But then sometimes they claim they were in harm's way, a la Hillary!.

To go four years without a troop visit will be something that even his adoring Press won't be able to suppress and gloss over....his handlers will be terrified of him committing a "Dukakis in the tank" moment, but he will anyway.....he won't be able to help himself,  and his ego will compel him to.

20 posted on 12/14/2008 8:55:57 AM PST by Stoat (Palin / Coulter 2012: A Strong America Through Unapologetic Conservatism)
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

Thank you for your prompt response.


21 posted on 12/14/2008 9:08:28 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain; sinsofsolarempirefan
And thanks for the prompt apology to Stoat (your #7).

Oops...didn't post one yet?

22 posted on 12/14/2008 9:35:03 AM PST by norton
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To: Stoat

Shall we start a countdown on January 20th? I suspect it (if he actually goes) will be later rather than sooner.


23 posted on 12/14/2008 9:36:14 AM PST by originalbuckeye
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To: norton

Who are you, his boyfriend or something?


24 posted on 12/14/2008 9:45:42 AM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: Stoat

I post once on UK Daily mail long long time ago

There was article that Gordie Brown was critzing the Queen for her ladies in waiting going to Wal Mart of UK because curtain were falling apart they got good deal on curtain LOL!

OH LORDY LOL! I remember that article


25 posted on 12/14/2008 9:56:57 AM PST by SevenofNine ("We are Freepers, all your media belong to us, resistence is futile")
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To: Stoat
Obama has already been compared to Lincoln; and only after they realized that his prior comparison to idiot FDR was not helpful. He will continue to be compared to all great people until everyone finally realizes that he has not done anything and he is just an empty suit. Soon we will most likely see images of him with a halo or climbing down off of a cross.
26 posted on 12/14/2008 10:03:49 AM PST by dirtymac (Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country. Really! It's time; NOW)
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan
I have read with interest your communications with others in this thread and I must agree with Stoat that your first line of discourse is to attack on a personal level instead of on the merits of the discussion. That is not what is normally found here in Freeperland nor is it appriciated. My conclusion is that you are new here and a recent transplant from DU and are here only to disrupt the discourse herein. I believe and suggest that you need to return to your roots where your type is truly respected for your level of discourse. You will not find it here.
27 posted on 12/14/2008 10:19:02 AM PST by dirtymac (Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country. Really! It's time; NOW)
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To: Stoat
Winston WHO?

Last summer, after I read that Winston Churchill was going to be eliminated from British school textbooks (after all, the muzzies hate any reference to him) = I was in correspondence with The Honorable Nicholas Soames, member of Parliament.

In response to my lamentations on the above outrage, he wrote me: “Thank you very much for the extremely generous and welcome support you sent me about my grandfather.

It is always a source of immense satisfaction that so many of your fellow countrymen cherish his memory and I can assure you that we, his family, are deeply grateful.

Thank you again very much.

With warm best wishes.

Nicholas Soames”

Of course, the same elimination/degrading of our history's heroes has been taking place in our textbooks for the past 30 years.

Wonder not why people vote the way they do today. They are ignorant of our yesterday-heroes who so valiantly won the freedoms we enjoy today...and the masses swallow the empty rhetoric of empty suits who never, one day in their lives, did one thing in defense of our country and freedoms.

28 posted on 12/14/2008 10:39:10 AM PST by maine-iac7 ("He has the right to criticize who has the heart to help" Lincoln)
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To: Stoat

per my post # 28

“Outrage as Churchill dropped from England’s history syllabus”

http://media.www.theclariononline.com/media/storage/paper353/news/2007/05/31/FromTheWire/Outrage.As.Churchill.Dropped.From.Englands.History.Syllabus-2923410.shtml


29 posted on 12/14/2008 10:46:55 AM PST by maine-iac7 ("He has the right to criticize who has the heart to help" Lincoln)
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To: dirtymac

To be fair, I have noticed this level of idiotic discourse is entirely appreciated when applied to (but by no means limited to) the following topics:

A) Muslims
B) Right-wing (as opposed to left-wing) rags and other trash sources like the Daily Mail
C) Foreign types
D) People who are not Conservatives etc.

Now I’m willing to admit, I’ve probably been more of a douche in this thread towards Stoat than he deserved (for which I do apologise), but lets not get carried away with ourselves that this forum is a towering collosus of intellectual debate and reasoning compared to just about every other forum on the web. I am a Conservative, but I have no time for the ‘Al Murray’ wing of Conservative opinion or thought, which is illustrated by the likes of the Daily Mail, and which is most definitely not treated with the same deserved level of contempt that would be reserved for left-wing crackpottery...


30 posted on 12/14/2008 10:52:36 AM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: Stoat
BTW, the Honorable Nicolas Soames has his detractors = Besides accusing him of not being PC, they list his voting record as proof of his being on the wrong side of the political fence.

Some examples:

voted AGAINST ID cards

” ‘very strongly FOR the Iraq War

” very strongly AGAINST the hunting ban

” AGAINST equal gay rights

Oh, and “Occasionally rebels against their party in Parliament”

Sounds like granddaddy would be proud?

31 posted on 12/14/2008 11:03:01 AM PST by maine-iac7 ("He has the right to criticize who has the heart to help" Lincoln)
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To: Stoat
Not one member of parliamnet has served in the armed forces, what does that tell you?

Well, for "ONE", Churchill's grandson, the Honorable Nicholas Soames, MP, served in the 11th Hussars in West Germany and Britain. He is currently the Honorary Colonel of the Bristol University Officer Training Corps.

So we might assume other MP's have also served...maybe not on the battlefront as there was a window of time when many were of age for such service, there was no battlefront.

However, they were in the military, 'battle ready'.

32 posted on 12/14/2008 11:12:38 AM PST by maine-iac7 ("He has the right to criticize who has the heart to help" Lincoln)
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To: Stoat

Ben Wallace was in the Scots Guards


33 posted on 12/14/2008 12:29:57 PM PST by MadMitch
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To: Stoat

Eric Joyce was in the Black Watch.


34 posted on 12/14/2008 12:34:12 PM PST by MadMitch
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To: Stoat

I dislike the PM as much as the next man, and dont think that he is going to win the next general election, or possibly be a part of it. However...

It is still a brave photo op to take, and credit to the man for taking the time out (even if there was an ulterior motive) to speak to troops in the firing line. Grudging respect for this.

It was a cheap shot to try and compare him to Churchill, and its clearly not going to stick. He would have won far more respect if he just let other people make up their own minds about him rather than telling us how we should perceive him.

So respect for the act, not so much for the typical Labour spin.


35 posted on 12/14/2008 2:46:40 PM PST by Mercia
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To: Daffynition

In 1899, he was only 25 or so. And yet, he had done so much by that time, and seen so much, that even at such a young age he had the experience to make such a comment. Born only a decade after the Civil War, and he died about the same time Malcolm X was killed. What a span of time in which to live. The Battle of Omdurman was the last great cavalry charge in military history, and he was part of it. What a tremendous leader. Too bad there is no one like him alive today.


36 posted on 12/14/2008 3:08:46 PM PST by DryFly
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To: Stoat

Was Hillary there ducking bullets?


37 posted on 12/14/2008 3:11:43 PM PST by GOPJ (There are no "tough" issues - just "tough" political consequences.)
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To: Stoat

trying to get his poll numbers up , , maybe he should realise that him and his party have really damaged the UK and many of us have had enough and got out now because of it


38 posted on 12/14/2008 6:15:55 PM PST by manc (Marriage is between a man and a woman no sick MA,CT sham marriage end racism end affirmative action)
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To: Stoat

he’s compared to JFK and he’s not even taken office yet


39 posted on 12/14/2008 6:16:48 PM PST by manc (Marriage is between a man and a woman no sick MA,CT sham marriage end racism end affirmative action)
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To: Stoat
he said Shows the calibre of the average Daily Mail reader stopped reading after that. there are a few in England who are elitist because of what paper they see people reading. It's usually from the champagne socialists who are so far up their own arse they'll never see the sun. Of course they think the guardian and the BBC is gospel wouldn't even reply mate to those kind. I remember another poster not too long ago who came out with similar comment and after reading their past posts it then seemed they were only on here to troll. Must be slow over at their far left loon sites.
40 posted on 12/14/2008 6:28:19 PM PST by manc (Marriage is between a man and a woman no sick MA,CT sham marriage end racism end affirmative action)
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

so you say most turn out to be bollocks.

so which ones then cocker?
As you say most I’m sure then you have a ton of links to different stories, right?

Usually I find them to be true, maybe one or two is wrong but yes they are true for the most part.
Of course these stories are often ignored by the likes of the BBC and the guardian which is worshipped by champagne elitist socialists.

come on mucker you know the type, 17 to 27 year old, college or x college types who think they know all about life. They play their video games quite a lot and think they’re pretty hard because they might have done some bollocks of martial arts while ignoring that one simple head or punch but could flatten them .
They discuss their latest Adidas trainers and look at other blokes clothing all the time while on the bus or train or near me on the tram.

Yea round my way we see it all the time on the tram what with the out of city students harping on to one another.


41 posted on 12/14/2008 6:40:26 PM PST by manc (Marriage is between a man and a woman no sick MA,CT sham marriage end racism end affirmative action)
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan
You silver tongued devil you...

[Semi-seriously, did you learn debate in a sand box or a kennel?]

42 posted on 12/14/2008 11:48:20 PM PST by norton
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To: manc

Before we go on, a little history of the Daily Mail:

It was founded in 1896 by Lord Northcliffe. Unlike the other mainstream newspapers of the day, which had respectability in mind in their journalistic endeavors, The Daily Mail was founded on what Northcliffe called the ‘One Murder a Day’ formula, which he also called the ‘Daily Hate’. From the very outset, it’s principle aim was not to inform, but to engage with the basest emotions of its readers, and to cater to the lowest common denominator. Since then of course, other papers have ruthlessly out-done the Daily Mail in this category, but I digress.
Fast forward to the 1930s, and Lord Rothermere, Grandfather of the current proprieter, took this ‘Daily Hate’ concept just a little bit too far when he started supporting the Nazis, and only stopped this editorial line in 1939. Not because Hitler was a racist, murdering lunatic you understand, but because it was by that point pretty obvious that Britain was heading for war with Germany, and such an obvious lack of patriotism would never have done.

Into the modern day, and the Daily Mail is still busy doing things like defaming the Polish community with its malevolent and lazy journalism:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/aug/04/dailymail.pressandpublishing

Libelling an innocent men such as Robert Murat and Colin Stagg:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-509285/Robert-Murat-seen-talking-man-matching-artists-impression-Madeleine-suspect.html

http://www.septicisle.info/2006/06/mail-watch-hounding-of-colin-stagg.html

And most pricelessly, confusing the plot of a computer game with a plot by Al’Quaeda to blow up London:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/30/video_game_terrorist_doomsday/

And those are just a small sample. Although for people who can see the Daily Mail’s hyporcrisy don’t take its crappy journalism seriously it is comedy gold. See: http://www.bigdaddymerk.co.uk/mailwatchnew/

And Private Eye’s ‘Street of Shame’ column in any given issue.


43 posted on 12/15/2008 4:42:40 AM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: Daffynition
Churchill's reflection on the Muslims at the turn of the century:

A plain-spoken visionary the likes of which we are sadly lacking today.  Thank you for posting his quote.

44 posted on 12/15/2008 7:32:59 AM PST by Stoat (Palin / Coulter 2012: A Strong America Through Unapologetic Conservatism)
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To: originalbuckeye
Shall we start a countdown on January 20th? I suspect it (if he actually goes) will be later rather than sooner.

That would indeed be an amusing thing to do, although I wonder....BH0 knows full well that he is (quite rightly) seen as probably the weakest Commander In Chief in American history, and his ego simply won't be able to tolerate that....he may want to have a troop visit soon so as to try to position himself (in his own mind and that of the Left) as a "strong leader who takes charge".  The MSM will crow and faint over what a 'dynamic, forthright and uncompromising leader' he is regardless of the fifty thousand YouTube and LiveLeak videos that 'mysteriously' pop up showing him as being completely incompetent and knowing nothing around the troops or matters pertaining to the military.

It will indeed be an interesting spectacle, and it would be amusing if it didn't reflect on America's military and place the world in a terribly dire situation.

45 posted on 12/15/2008 7:53:56 AM PST by Stoat (Palin / Coulter 2012: A Strong America Through Unapologetic Conservatism)
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To: SevenofNine
I post once on UK Daily mail long long time ago

Hey, they must like you!  :-)  I've submitted NUMEROUS comments to Daily Mail articles over the years, all quite polite and relevant of course, but they've never posted anything from me.....maybe they don't like stoats?  :-(

There was article that Gordie Brown was critzing the Queen for her ladies in waiting going to Wal Mart of UK because curtain were falling apart they got good deal on curtain LOL!

OH LORDY LOL! I remember that article

OMG was that during Brown's tenure as Chancellor of the Exchequer?  He should have been delighted that they were being so thrifty.

46 posted on 12/15/2008 7:59:32 AM PST by Stoat (Palin / Coulter 2012: A Strong America Through Unapologetic Conservatism)
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To: dirtymac
Obama has already been compared to Lincoln; and only after they realized that his prior comparison to idiot FDR was not helpful. He will continue to be compared to all great people until everyone finally realizes that he has not done anything and he is just an empty suit. Soon we will most likely see images of him with a halo or climbing down off of a cross.
 

One thing that the Left media will NEVER do is admit it when they are wrong....even when it becomes overwhelmingly obvious to the White-guilt plagued 0bama voters that they were duped and voted for the wrong man for the wrong reasons, they will continually spin things to place Barry in the best possible light, just as they twisted anything and everything possible to portray President Bush negatively.

They've found their Savior and they've got his back 'til the end.

47 posted on 12/15/2008 8:07:58 AM PST by Stoat (Palin / Coulter 2012: A Strong America Through Unapologetic Conservatism)
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To: maine-iac7
Last summer, after I read that Winston Churchill was going to be eliminated from British school textbooks (after all, the muzzies hate any reference to him) = I was in correspondence with The Honorable Nicholas Soames, member of Parliament.

That was a great FR thread and you made lots of great contributions to it, as usual  :-)

Churchill dropped from England's history syllabus ( pandering to a P.C. agenda)

Of course, the same elimination/degrading of our history's heroes has been taking place in our textbooks for the past 30 years.

Indeed....being a 'dead white male' is reason enough for the Diversity Nazis to cull someone from the historical record, regardless of the essential role they played in world events.  An 'oppressed person of color and a sexual minority' will of course have so much more of a rightful place in the texts........

48 posted on 12/15/2008 8:20:44 AM PST by Stoat (Palin / Coulter 2012: A Strong America Through Unapologetic Conservatism)
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To: maine-iac7
BTW, the Honorable Nicolas Soames has his detractors = Besides accusing him of not being PC, they list his voting record as proof of his being on the wrong side of the political fence.

Some examples:

voted AGAINST ID cards

” ‘very strongly FOR the Iraq War

” very strongly AGAINST the hunting ban

” AGAINST equal gay rights

Oh, and “Occasionally rebels against their party in Parliament”

Sounds like a man whom I would want to vote for in the USA  :-)  We (as well as our British friends) need many more like him.

Sounds like granddaddy would be proud?

I'm sure he would be, and rightfully so  :-)

49 posted on 12/15/2008 8:24:14 AM PST by Stoat (Palin / Coulter 2012: A Strong America Through Unapologetic Conservatism)
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To: MadMitch
Ben Wallace was in the Scots Guards

Eric Joyce was in the Black Watch.

Sorry, I'm a bit confused...I'm not seeing either of these names in the article.  More info please ?

My favorite version so far:

YouTube - Scotland the Brave

50 posted on 12/15/2008 8:49:38 AM PST by Stoat (Palin / Coulter 2012: A Strong America Through Unapologetic Conservatism)
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