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India protests (German) submarine sale to Pakistan
Timesnow, India ^ | 12/29/2008

Posted on 12/30/2008 8:47:07 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki

India protests submarine sale to Pak

12/29/2008 10:01:16 PM

In what comes as clearly a fallout of the Mumbai terror attacks, India has protested to Germany about its plans to sell submarines to Pakistan.

India has told Germany to call off the sale of 214 submarines manufactured by HDW to Pakistan over the next few years. The deal which is worth over one billion dollars is likely to be signed in the next few days.

India maintains that the sale would be a problem for India as it would definitely be used for conducting strikes against India.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Germany; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: armsbuildup; eurabia; fourthreich; germany; india; islam; jihad; pakistan; submarine
German parliament backs submarine sale to Pakistan

Berlin - Germany's parliament rejected Thursday an attempt to stop the sale of three submarines to Pakistan, with pro-government speakers defending the sale. Last year, the transaction was approved in the first phase of Berlin's review of the sale by the German warship-building consortium.

Germany's opposition Greens party asked parliament Thursday to intervene, but the large government majority rejected the motion. However several speakers in government parties voiced some misgivings at the sale.

Rolf Hempelmann of the Social Democrats, a party in Chancellor Angela Merkel's government, called for a "fresh review of the security situation in the region" before the government gave its final blessing for the sale.

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/246956,german-parliament-backs-submarine-sale-to-pakistan.html

1 posted on 12/30/2008 8:47:08 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Do they really mean >> 214 << submarines? That’s one hell of a sub force!


2 posted on 12/30/2008 8:52:07 AM PST by MahatmaGandu (Remember, remember, the twenty-sixth of November.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

214 submarines?!?! For a lousy billion bucks from Germany? I picture 55 gallon drums and Minkota drives for that price per unit...


3 posted on 12/30/2008 8:53:47 AM PST by Abathar (Proudly posting without reading the article carefully since 2004)
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To: MahatmaGandu

The Type-214 class.


4 posted on 12/30/2008 8:53:58 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: MahatmaGandu
It's the U boat class "U 214". Not 214 subs. Confusing reporting.

Anyway bad idea Germany...

5 posted on 12/30/2008 8:55:22 AM PST by SolidWood (Sarah Palin - Everything that is Sweetness and Light!)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

India should offer to buy the subs.

But make it clear that, in the present climate, a sale of subs to Pakistan is an act of war.

And she should be prepared to expel the German embassy if it goes forward. This ain’t no disco, this ain’t no fooling around.


6 posted on 12/30/2008 8:56:00 AM PST by marron
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Imagine the smell....


7 posted on 12/30/2008 8:56:03 AM PST by King Moonracer (Bad lighting and cheap fabric, that's how you sell clothing.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

8 posted on 12/30/2008 8:59:18 AM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, John 11:25, 14:6, 1 Tim 2:5, John 3:17-18, John 20:31, 1 John 5:13, John 6:69)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Are these those super-quiet subs that has got the USN worried to the point of leasing one of them for study and sonar signature recording?


9 posted on 12/30/2008 9:03:02 AM PST by MyTwoCopperCoins
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To: sukhoi-30mki; SolidWood

Thank you both for the correction.


10 posted on 12/30/2008 9:04:06 AM PST by MahatmaGandu (Remember, remember, the twenty-sixth of November.)
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To: MyTwoCopperCoins

The USN leased a Swedish submarine which uses a different silent propulsion system. The German system is arguably quieter and has reportedly greater endurance.


11 posted on 12/30/2008 9:04:50 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: little jeremiah; Indian_Fighter_Kite; Knitting A Conundrum; Hari prasad; MimirsWell; ...

Kurukshetra War - Kali Yuga ping...

To be added to or removed from this ping list, please FReepmail Sir Francis Dashwood.

12 posted on 12/30/2008 9:07:01 AM PST by BullDog108 (A Smith & Wesson beats four aces)
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To: marron

India did consider buying the Type-214 before opting for a French design.

If India wanted to make a point by expelling folks, it would have to expel the French, Chinese, American and even Russian missions.


13 posted on 12/30/2008 9:07:12 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

What in hell is Pakistan going to do with 214 submarines???


14 posted on 12/30/2008 9:08:28 AM PST by Don Corleone (Leave the gun..take the cannoli)
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To: marron
But make it clear that, in the present climate, a sale of subs to Pakistan is an act of war.

The sale of the subs is not an act of war but it isn't exactly a friendly act. I suspect that a portion of the reason for the sale is the Germans placating their violent and vocal Muslim population by selling arms to an avowed enemy of India and Hinduism.

15 posted on 12/30/2008 9:08:39 AM PST by MahatmaGandu (Remember, remember, the twenty-sixth of November.)
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To: MahatmaGandu

No, it’s because HDW is a large industrial constituency and they would like the money and work that this purchase entails. Same reason U.S. congress rubber stamps everything Boeing sells to Saudi Arabia, because of the money.


16 posted on 12/30/2008 9:10:59 AM PST by cmdjing
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To: Abathar

Pakistan has formally agreed to buy three Type 214 German submarines


17 posted on 12/30/2008 9:15:05 AM PST by PasorBob
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To: cmdjing

“Same reason U.S. congress rubber stamps everything Boeing sells to Saudi Arabia, because of the money.”


Gee... I thought it was because of the oil!


18 posted on 12/30/2008 9:15:49 AM PST by marktwain
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To: sukhoi-30mki; MahatmaGandu

India is big enough and self-contained enough that they can afford to make their point loud and clear. After Mumbai they should be a lot less understanding of countries trying to play both sides of the street, including the US.


19 posted on 12/30/2008 9:16:02 AM PST by marron
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To: marktwain

Oil-money, LOL!


20 posted on 12/30/2008 9:16:33 AM PST by MyTwoCopperCoins
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To: MyTwoCopperCoins
Are these those super-quiet subs that has got the USN worried to the point of leasing one of them for study and sonar signature recording?

In a manner of speaking. Type 214 submarines can have the same kind of air-independent propulsion as the Swedish submarines have.

21 posted on 12/30/2008 9:20:55 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur

Type 212/214 submarines

 16 of October , 2007 at 7:52 pm

 

One of the most advanced submarines in the world is the German Type 212 class. Equipped with a fuel cell propulsion system, the Type 212 submarines are the first of only two fuel cell propulsion system equipped submarines, the other being the Russian Lada class submarine.

 

 

Initial designation of the advanced project was Type 212. Due to significant updates to the design the designation was changed to Type 212A. The submarine itself represents a great leap in conventional submarine technology. Designed to be virtually independent from outer air, the Type 212A is fitted with an air-independent propulsion system. This system is a combination of a conventional diesel generator with a lead acid battery and a fuel cell equipped with oxygen and hydrogen storage. The fuel cell system is comprised of nine Polymer Electrolyte Membrane (PEM) fuel cells, each of these cells providing between 30 kW and 50 kW.

The Type 212A is probably the quietest submarine in the world. Engineers have managed to reduce the Type 212A’s signature by using the latest technology available. Their aim was to reduce the waterborne noise, magnetism, radar, infrared and pressure signature to as low as possible. The diesel generator plant is mounted on a swinging deck platform with double elastic mounts for noise and vibration isolation. The propeller motor is directly coupled to the seven-bladed screwback propeller. The pressure hull is built from non-magnetic steel of high strength and resilience. A notable design feature is the prismatic hull cross-section and smoothly faired transitions from the hull to the sail, improving the boat’s stealth characteristics.

The submarine has not sacrificed agility. Capable of operating in waters only 20 meters deep, the crew of the sub compares it to a dolphin. Four of the Type 212A submarines were built at the shipyards of HDW and Thyssen Nordseewerke GmbH (TNSW) of Emden for the German Navy. The four submarines are U31, U32, U33 and the U34. Two more Type 212A submarines have been built by Fincantieri for the Italian Navy: Salvatore Todaro and Scire.

Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft GmbH or HDW, the people who created this masterpiece of technology have taken the Type 212A a step further. The Type 214 submarine is af urther improvement of the Type 212A, with an incresed diving depth of more than 400 meters due to use of new pressure hull materials. Performance of the AIP system has been increased with two Siemens PEM fuel cells which produce 120kW per module and will give the submarine an underwater endurance of two weeks. A hull shape which has been further optimised for hydrodynamic and stealth characteristics and a low-noise propeller combine to decrease the submarine’s acoustic signature.

Greece has ordered four Type 214 submarines for the Hellenic Navy:Papanikolis, Pipinos, Matrozos, Katsonis. South Korea has ordered three: Admiral Sohn Won-il, Jung Ji and a third one to enter service in 2009. The submarines will form the KSS2 Class.

Type 212/214 Specifications

Crew 27 (including five officers)

Weapon Systems

Torpedoes six 533mm tubes, 24 STN Atlas Elektronik DM2A4 torpedoes
Combat Data System Basic Command and Weapons Control System (BCWCS)
Countermeasures
ESM EADS FL1800U
Decoys TAU 2000 torpedo countermeasures system
Radar Kelvin hughes type 1007 I-band navigation radar
Sonar STN Atlas Elektronik DBQS-40 sonar suite and STN Atlas Elektronik MOA 3070 mine detection sonar
Periscopes Zeiss Optronic SERO 14 search and SERO 15 attack
Propulsion Diesel-electric, MTU 16V-396 diesel engine, 3.12MW, HDW / Siemens AIP (Air-Independent Propulsion) system, 300kW

U212 Dimensions

Length 56m
Beam 7m
Draught 6m
Displacement (Surfaced) 1,524t
Displacement (Dived) 1,830t

U214 Dimensions

Length 64m
Height 13m
Surface Displacement 1,700m³
Pressure Hull Diameter 6.3m
Buoyancy Reserve >10%

U212 Performance

Speed (Surfaced) 12kt
Speed (Dived) 20kt
Range (at 8kt Surfaced) 8,000 miles
Range (at 8kt Dived) 420 miles

U214 Performance

Submerged Patrol Speed of Advance 6kt
Range 12,000nm
Mission Endurance 12 weeks
Constantly Submerged Three weeks without snorkelling
Mission Sprint Speed 15kt to 20kt
Maximum Dive Depth 400m+



EXCERPTED. READ MORE AT:

http://www.military-heat.com/63/type-212214-submarines/
 


22 posted on 12/30/2008 9:25:07 AM PST by MyTwoCopperCoins
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To: sukhoi-30mki

We could use a few of them in the upcoming China v. Taiwan/US showdown. Too bad we are hooked 100% on nuclear powered subs.


23 posted on 12/30/2008 2:37:19 PM PST by Jacquerie (More central planning is not the solution to the failure of central planning.)
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To: MyTwoCopperCoins

Yes and no. The export models lack some features, like the antimagnetic stealth hull, but they have the AIP drive.


24 posted on 12/31/2008 6:36:36 AM PST by PoliticsAndSausages
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To: MahatmaGandu
Do they really mean >> 214 << submarines? That’s one hell of a sub force!

But at less than $5 million each: a bargain.

I think what thet are trying to say some Type 214 submarines

25 posted on 12/31/2008 7:04:30 AM PST by Oztrich Boy ("Never apologize, Mister. It's a sign of weakness" - Nathan Brittles)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

what the frill is Germany doing selling to the terror backers in Pakland?


26 posted on 01/06/2009 5:22:37 AM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: marron

India should start pondering buying German Panzers and tell them in no ambiguous terms: you want to sell anything to India, then DON’T sell to the Paks


27 posted on 01/06/2009 5:24:53 AM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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