[muawiyah]

Some of this is a matter of perspective. Let's start circa 1420 or thereabouts with the family of Rene of Anjou. Besides being Jeanne'd'Arc's political sponsor at the French Court, one of his wives was the daughter of a French king. He himself was a descendant of other French kings. He counted Leonardo d'Vinci as a personal associate, and fought a war on behalf of King Francis to bring Leonardo to France.

He also had several concubines, and a second wife (of nearly as illustrious a group of royal forebears as himself).

So, why bring him up? Well, he turns into an ancestor of Henry VIII, Philip of Spain, Isabella AND Ferdinand of Spain, most of the Hapsburgs who were capable of walking and chewing chiclis at the same time, and, lo and behold, he actually had Christopher Columbus as an employee at one time.

To say the French and Spanish crowns were closely related is to say the least. By the late 1500s Rene had become an ancestor to the next half dozen Swedish kings (all Protestant).

The "family", as its called, is still pretty tightly knitted (as families go), but back then it owned everything. Didn't matter who found the gold or brought it to Europe, it ended up in the same place every single time.

One of the places it tended to not go was Espagna. Instead, it went to the creditors.

Now you might not think Philippines gold was worth all that, but it was, and it traveled through the backdoor lest Spanish ships be boarded by such nice people as Dutch, French, Portuguese, Arab, Thai, Hindu, Malay and African pirates. There were lots of them around in those days.

Now, about banking, Venice started out on its own with the First Doge some time in the 7th century AD.

Those old boys invented double entry book-keeping. They also figured out how to monetize debt.

I think your reference to "banking" is to a more "modern banking" situation with internationally transferable "letters of credit". Spain had had access to that through its affiliation with the Islamic Caliphate starting in the 8th century AD right up to the 16th century. Of course even the Babylonians had banking and bankers thousands of years ago.

[Cronos]

What's your point?

I was saying that there were no Belgian bankers

We all know the various houses of Europe intermarried -- that was an outcome of the wars int he late Middle ages within each "country" when kings sons married barosn daughters etc and produced the Lancastrians and Yorks etc.

Nothing to do with Philippine gold (!) or American gold going to non-existent Belgian Bankers (especially since there WERE no bankers of any reput there -- the bankers were all in Italy)

Your entire post is a non-sequitor and doesn't answer your statement about If you want to follow the physical flow of gold from the New World to the Old World it's also understood you'll be looking at places like Belgium. If you get real specialized and want to follow Philippines gold, it comes across the Pacific to Mexico and across Mexico to any one of several Spansh port cities, then on boats that sail past Florida and then on to Europe (usually Belgium). The silver from Potosi takes a different route. in any way -- that's just incorrect points.

Furthermore, at the time of the 1400s to the 1600s, the throne of Spain was Hapsburg, not Bourbon. That was the reason for the War of Spanish Succession which is what pulled down Spain from being the top dog superpower. The ones that did the pulling were the French, English, Austrians etc. and THAT is when Spain really declined, not due to any expulsion in 1490 at the height of their power.