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To: Cronos
I do believe you've forgotten that the guys who invented writing in Mesopotamia were neither Indo-European nor Turcic, nor Semitic.

In fact, the closest ancient cognate languages to Sumerian are DRAVIDIAN, and the closest modern languages to Sumerian are Sa'ami (which have a large input of words from another non-Indo European language group in North Asia).

Their "beliefs" were a tad different than the standard Indo-European "god set", and were decidedly different than anything developed by the neighboring Semites.

What you have to do is go back another millenia and things will become much more familiar. Otherwise we'd have to believe that the Dravidians who penetrated Mesopotamia 7 to 10 thousand years ago managed to cast off all their own cultural baggage to embrace beliefs which would not be invented for another 4000 or so years.

There's been a lot of back and forth movement from Punjab to Helsinki over the ages. The Aryans who acquired domesticated horses used them to track back to where local stories indicated they kept the good stuff.

158 posted on 01/06/2009 10:42:10 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
I do believe you've forgotten that the guys who invented writing in Mesopotamia were neither Indo-European nor Turcic, nor Semitic.

The guys who invented the first form of writing were Sumerian, correct. Other cultures not in contact with the Sumerians would have developed it separately and later on.

And, yes, links between Sumerian and Dravidian and Harappan are theorized, but is difficult to prove -- that doesn't mean it can't be true, just the links are difficult to prove or disprove right now

I've not heard of ANY proposed links with Sa'ami languages or any Tungushic language with Sumerian -- with Dravidian there are some voices, but the links are compeltely non-existent beyog a few similar soundign words.

If the Dravidians and Sumerians and Harappans are linked, then the best theory to explain that is by blam's book which hypothesises that they all came from Tamil Nadu/Indonesia -- since all the places setled by the Dravido-Harappan-Elamite-Sumerians are on the eastern sea coast route (the Dravidians never settled the north or central Deccan or the Gangetic belt, while the Harappans stuck to the south Indus, the Elamites to southern Iran, the Sumerians to the southern Shatt-al-arab)

Anyway, that's Dravidians, primarily southern India. The ARYANS (i.e. INDO-EUROPEANS) have their high points of culture in a crescent from Northern India, across Persia to Hittite territories (and interestingly, the Hittite initial deities were gods like Indra before they adopted Hattusa culture
BNone of this explains your statement about the Vedas where you said There's a time sequence that correlates with an Eastward movement. The oldest stuff was developed further West. or
166 posted on 01/06/2009 9:45:18 PM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: muawiyah

The Indo-Europeans were mostly barbarian nomads well into the first millenium of Sumeria, Egypt and Harappa. Their emphasis on rishis especially the saptarishis (analogical to shamans of the proto-Indo-Europeans) and the battle cult of indra versus Vrishta are really pre-Brahmanical Hinduism.


167 posted on 01/06/2009 9:54:59 PM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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